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MOSNEWS, Russia
July 20 2004
Russians Helped Kill Kadyrov - Zakayev
Created: 20.07.2004 14:56 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:58 MSK, 2 hours 5
minutes ago
Yelena Rudneva, London
Gazeta.Ru
In an interview to Gazeta.Ru Akhmed Zakayev, a former envoy for
Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov, shares his ideas as to who
was behind the murder of the pro-Moscow president of Chechnya Akhmad
Kadyrov and what the motives were.
Zakayev also implicitly confirms earlier statements by Chechen
warlord Shamil Basyaev, who spoke of a list of certain state-owned
installations and compounds likely to be the target of terrorist
attacks in near future. At the same time, according to Zakayev,
Chechen rebels plan no more attacks on civilian installations.
Do you communicate with Maskhadov often? Do you know where he is now?
He is in Chechnya. We communicate about twice a month, when
necessary. I just have to report on certain work that we have been
doing here. If need be he has the capability to get in touch as well.
If there were no Maskhadov, there would not be any Basayev, or anyone
else.
Do you mean they keep in touch? They were said to have serious
disagreements.
Of course, they do. They coordinate all the military operations which
are being planned. As for the individual actions that take place
every now and then, they are beyond any control absolutely. Such
terrorist acts claim the lives of innocent people. I hope that people
will no longer die at concerts, on trains, in the metro, in the
cities.
In the wake of the rebel raid on Ingushetia Shamil Basayev said he
had a list of state-owned installations, which he plans to attack.
The list includes the State Duma, the Federation Council, and other
governmental buildings. Does such a list really exist?
I think that for those waging war against a certain adversary such a
list must exist. I am convinced that such a list must exist.
How do you view the situation in present-day Chechnya, in the run-up
to the new presidential elections?
Judging by the recent developments in Chechnya and Ingushetia, it is
evident that the true state of affairs is different from the official
propaganda that the Kremlin is trying to convince the public of.
There is a war going on there. You can call it a guerilla war, a
separatist war. That makes no difference. For mothers who lose their
sons, it makes no difference what that war is called. The result is
the same: victims, ruins and no light at the end of the tunnel.
>From 1994 up to now over a trillion dollars have been spent on the
Chechen war. Can you imagine that? And there is no end to it. Ask an
ordinary Russian citizen if he really needs that? It doesn't solve
any of the problems. If we continue waging that war for another ten
years, just as much money will be wasted.
What was your opinion of Akhmad Kadyrov?
Our roads never crossed, I cannot say anything personal. But when he
took the pro-Russian stand, he became just another simple Russian
Ivan Petrovich who arrived in Chechnya to kill, and for me he ceased
to exist. I do not believe it is correct to speak of him as of a
political figure. He was only implementing the policy imposed by the
Kremlin. Incidentally, he himself admitted that he was at war all the
time.
Judging by the Kremlin's action Kadyrov was the central link in the
system of checks and balances in Chechnya. Is that true? After all,
it is hardly a coincidence that following Kadyrov's death many
anticipated a new wave of hostilities as various groups clashed in
the fight for power.
I can assure you, there will be no fight for that post.
Do you mean, because people rarely survive in that post?
Yes, and also because regardless of who is assigned to it by the
Kremlin, nothing will change absolutely. Kadyrov played no
independent role. The election is just a screen for the West, for
Europe. After all, you all know already who will be the next
president.
Did you know Alu Alkhanov personally. What can you say about him?
Nothing, absolutely nothing other than that he headed a police
station during the storming of Grozny in August 1996. It was the
second or the third day when we surrounded the city; I was contacted
on a walkie-talkie and told that Chechen policemen inside the train
station would not talk to anyone but me. The talks were conducted by
Adayev, the same man who is running together with Alkhanov today.
Do you have any idea as to who could have killed Akhmad Kadyrov?
I tend to believe that Kadyrov was not killed by Basayev, but by a
unit of the Russian special services. Moreover, I am convinced of
that. I know what the VIP guard service is like; I personally headed
the guards between the two wars.
In my time I also took part in the restoration of the Dinamo stadium
[where Kadyrov was killed on 9 May this year] and I know that nothing
can be planted there without the guards being informed. This is
especially so, as Kadyrov had presidential guards assigned to him by
Moscow. That is why it is impossible to imagine that some ordinary
tractor driver or bricklayer could plant a bomb there. Although, of
course, maybe it was not a joint operation but it was impossible to
eliminate Kadyrov without the special services' involvement.
Rumor has it that he was killed because he intended to hold talks
with Maskhadov. Is that true?
Maskhadov will never hold talks with people appointed by the Kremlin.
To sow enmity between the Chechens is something all Russian leaders
dream about.
They tried to do that during Yeltsin's rule when he attended the
talks between Zavgayev and Yandarbiyev. But we will never agree to
that, since everything that is going on in Chechnya today is seen as
a crime against humanity by the world community and European law.
That is why even if Kadyrov did seek talks with Maskhadov, Maskhadov
would never speak with Kadyrov. That would mean turning the war into
a conflict between the Chechens and in doing so to write off all the
victims. The war is between the Chechens and the Russian state, not
between the Russians and the Chechens.
You claim that the election organized by the federal authorities in
Chechnya cannot be honest by definition. Who should conduct them
then?
There is a war going on there. But if we stop that war, only then
will it be possible to hold democratic elections and only then will
it be possible to discuss the presence of peacekeepers, or somebody
else there.
Elections must be held under the protectorate of the world community.
That may be the OSCE, the UN, the European Union. Any international
power institution, tasked to hold elections in such circumstances.
They are not to be organized by the Kremlin, Maskhadov, or Zakayev.
There is nothing like in Nagorny Karabakh, or in Ossetia. There they
are trying to negotiate. For some reason Chechnya is an exception.
Although I do understand Putin, it is his war, as it was the
beginning of his political career.
You've been living in London for quite a while. What is you status
here?
I have a passport with which I am free to travel across the globe,
except Russia.
Do you ask for security guarantees when you go somewhere outside
London?
As long as we are at war no one can feel safe. If I did ask for such
guarantees nobody would agreed to grant them to me. Which country
needs that? Besides, today Europe and the West are on the whole
satisfied with what is going on in Russia. Russia is too preoccupied
with the war in Chechnya to claim its role in the ongoing
redistribution of spheres of power and influence.
July 20 2004
Russians Helped Kill Kadyrov - Zakayev
Created: 20.07.2004 14:56 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:58 MSK, 2 hours 5
minutes ago
Yelena Rudneva, London
Gazeta.Ru
In an interview to Gazeta.Ru Akhmed Zakayev, a former envoy for
Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov, shares his ideas as to who
was behind the murder of the pro-Moscow president of Chechnya Akhmad
Kadyrov and what the motives were.
Zakayev also implicitly confirms earlier statements by Chechen
warlord Shamil Basyaev, who spoke of a list of certain state-owned
installations and compounds likely to be the target of terrorist
attacks in near future. At the same time, according to Zakayev,
Chechen rebels plan no more attacks on civilian installations.
Do you communicate with Maskhadov often? Do you know where he is now?
He is in Chechnya. We communicate about twice a month, when
necessary. I just have to report on certain work that we have been
doing here. If need be he has the capability to get in touch as well.
If there were no Maskhadov, there would not be any Basayev, or anyone
else.
Do you mean they keep in touch? They were said to have serious
disagreements.
Of course, they do. They coordinate all the military operations which
are being planned. As for the individual actions that take place
every now and then, they are beyond any control absolutely. Such
terrorist acts claim the lives of innocent people. I hope that people
will no longer die at concerts, on trains, in the metro, in the
cities.
In the wake of the rebel raid on Ingushetia Shamil Basayev said he
had a list of state-owned installations, which he plans to attack.
The list includes the State Duma, the Federation Council, and other
governmental buildings. Does such a list really exist?
I think that for those waging war against a certain adversary such a
list must exist. I am convinced that such a list must exist.
How do you view the situation in present-day Chechnya, in the run-up
to the new presidential elections?
Judging by the recent developments in Chechnya and Ingushetia, it is
evident that the true state of affairs is different from the official
propaganda that the Kremlin is trying to convince the public of.
There is a war going on there. You can call it a guerilla war, a
separatist war. That makes no difference. For mothers who lose their
sons, it makes no difference what that war is called. The result is
the same: victims, ruins and no light at the end of the tunnel.
>From 1994 up to now over a trillion dollars have been spent on the
Chechen war. Can you imagine that? And there is no end to it. Ask an
ordinary Russian citizen if he really needs that? It doesn't solve
any of the problems. If we continue waging that war for another ten
years, just as much money will be wasted.
What was your opinion of Akhmad Kadyrov?
Our roads never crossed, I cannot say anything personal. But when he
took the pro-Russian stand, he became just another simple Russian
Ivan Petrovich who arrived in Chechnya to kill, and for me he ceased
to exist. I do not believe it is correct to speak of him as of a
political figure. He was only implementing the policy imposed by the
Kremlin. Incidentally, he himself admitted that he was at war all the
time.
Judging by the Kremlin's action Kadyrov was the central link in the
system of checks and balances in Chechnya. Is that true? After all,
it is hardly a coincidence that following Kadyrov's death many
anticipated a new wave of hostilities as various groups clashed in
the fight for power.
I can assure you, there will be no fight for that post.
Do you mean, because people rarely survive in that post?
Yes, and also because regardless of who is assigned to it by the
Kremlin, nothing will change absolutely. Kadyrov played no
independent role. The election is just a screen for the West, for
Europe. After all, you all know already who will be the next
president.
Did you know Alu Alkhanov personally. What can you say about him?
Nothing, absolutely nothing other than that he headed a police
station during the storming of Grozny in August 1996. It was the
second or the third day when we surrounded the city; I was contacted
on a walkie-talkie and told that Chechen policemen inside the train
station would not talk to anyone but me. The talks were conducted by
Adayev, the same man who is running together with Alkhanov today.
Do you have any idea as to who could have killed Akhmad Kadyrov?
I tend to believe that Kadyrov was not killed by Basayev, but by a
unit of the Russian special services. Moreover, I am convinced of
that. I know what the VIP guard service is like; I personally headed
the guards between the two wars.
In my time I also took part in the restoration of the Dinamo stadium
[where Kadyrov was killed on 9 May this year] and I know that nothing
can be planted there without the guards being informed. This is
especially so, as Kadyrov had presidential guards assigned to him by
Moscow. That is why it is impossible to imagine that some ordinary
tractor driver or bricklayer could plant a bomb there. Although, of
course, maybe it was not a joint operation but it was impossible to
eliminate Kadyrov without the special services' involvement.
Rumor has it that he was killed because he intended to hold talks
with Maskhadov. Is that true?
Maskhadov will never hold talks with people appointed by the Kremlin.
To sow enmity between the Chechens is something all Russian leaders
dream about.
They tried to do that during Yeltsin's rule when he attended the
talks between Zavgayev and Yandarbiyev. But we will never agree to
that, since everything that is going on in Chechnya today is seen as
a crime against humanity by the world community and European law.
That is why even if Kadyrov did seek talks with Maskhadov, Maskhadov
would never speak with Kadyrov. That would mean turning the war into
a conflict between the Chechens and in doing so to write off all the
victims. The war is between the Chechens and the Russian state, not
between the Russians and the Chechens.
You claim that the election organized by the federal authorities in
Chechnya cannot be honest by definition. Who should conduct them
then?
There is a war going on there. But if we stop that war, only then
will it be possible to hold democratic elections and only then will
it be possible to discuss the presence of peacekeepers, or somebody
else there.
Elections must be held under the protectorate of the world community.
That may be the OSCE, the UN, the European Union. Any international
power institution, tasked to hold elections in such circumstances.
They are not to be organized by the Kremlin, Maskhadov, or Zakayev.
There is nothing like in Nagorny Karabakh, or in Ossetia. There they
are trying to negotiate. For some reason Chechnya is an exception.
Although I do understand Putin, it is his war, as it was the
beginning of his political career.
You've been living in London for quite a while. What is you status
here?
I have a passport with which I am free to travel across the globe,
except Russia.
Do you ask for security guarantees when you go somewhere outside
London?
As long as we are at war no one can feel safe. If I did ask for such
guarantees nobody would agreed to grant them to me. Which country
needs that? Besides, today Europe and the West are on the whole
satisfied with what is going on in Russia. Russia is too preoccupied
with the war in Chechnya to claim its role in the ongoing
redistribution of spheres of power and influence.