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YVES TERNON: TURKISH HISTORIANS ARE NOT HONEST TODAY EITHER
Azg/arm
01 Dec 04
The French Le Mond newspaper published noted French scholar Yves
Ternon's interview after the Venice scientific conference late in
October. Below we present the interview.
- How did it happen that Yves Ternon, the surgeon, became a noted
historian studying genocides?
- This is an extensive process that has been continuing for 40 years
now. As a surgeon I was worried over the heinous experiments of nazi
doctors during the WW II. I found out that they were totally connected
with the Jewish Holocaust. I began reviewing into the matter together
with my friend Dr. Socrat Hellmann and after having worked for 10
years I switched to the Armenian Cause. I say "Armenian Cause" as I
was not sure at the time that I deal with genocide. I could not
suppose that I will face the phenomenon of negation that gradually
enlarges resulting today in nonsensical situations. Getting deeper
into the issue of Armenian Genocide I could not overlook the fact any
more. Later onI tried to include the issue of genocide definition into
the context of 20-century atrocities. It is obvious that the two
mentioned cases (with Armenians and Jews) as well as the actions
against Tutsis in Rwanda are undoubtedly described as
genocide. Concerning the atrocities committed by Red Khmers in
Cambodia and the famine of 1932-33 in Ukraine, I can only say that
they need to be investigated. I think that professionalism comes out
in tough spheres. Thatis the reason why I will limit my comparative
analysis' circle with only the three mentioned genocides that will
give us the chance for a better understandingof genocides.
- Did not your profession of surgeon enable you do suchlike
researches?
- Not at all. By the way, that was due to my friends that I became
doctor of history, not out of vanity but wishing to be a reliable
specialist.
- Could you please tell about Venice scientific conference that took
place at the end of October? Where did the initiative come?
- The conference was held on October 28-30. Father Zekiyan, former
member of Mkhitarian Congregation, and Prof. Rigoy of Chini Foundation
were the initiators. There were 20 scientists participating. We were
hosted in San Giorno Majore Island. The aim of the meeting was to
discuss the history of Armenian-Turkish relations. There were
participants from Armenia, USA (Ruben Adalian), Canada (Prof. Frank
Cholt), Israel (Prof. Charney), France (Ramón Gevorgian and me).
There were scientists from Italy as well. Everything would be fine but
for few braggart and provoking Turks. I don't mean Mr. Zaraqolu and
Taner Akcam, of course, they are independent historians, but I mean
those scientists from Ankara and Istanbul. Hence, Prof. Bektay made a
challenging speech saying that the principle of Armenian Genocide is
not a subject of discussion. He said that Turkey is not ready to
recognize Armenian Genocide, and that only progressive minds in Turkey
speak about the Genocide. He said that Turkey needs to become EN
member firstly and only then bring up such issues. That was simply a
trap. It 's known that anyone mentioning the Armenian Genocide in
Turkey is to get 10 years of imprisonment according to the 305 article
of the constitution. In my speech I spoke about state negationism
comparing Armenian Genocide with the Holocaust and the genocide of
Tutsis in Rwanda. Bektay became blush. He showed few documents
evidently abridged saying that he does not deny the fact of the
Genocide. Whereas, it is banned to talk of Genocide in Turkey's
universities. German Prof. Geunz defended pastor Lepsius' position. I
told one ofthe professors from Ankara that he does not comprehend the
essence of the Genocide. There may be no compromising, either you
recognize the Genocide or you do not. I urged Prof. Bektay to inform
his masters that denial is not the best way.
We learnt during the conference that there are two positions in
Turkey, both governmental. First one is more hard-handed and prohibits
any recognition, the second one tends to bury the hatchet but gains
time till December 17 when the EU is to publish its report on starting
accession talks with Turkey. Such a speculation is very worrying. Many
traps have been set.
Despite all these the conference was on a high level. Speeches will be
published soon.
- So the conference did not turn into political debate?
- No, our work was intellectual in essence. But there were still two
opinions. Firstly, any time we raise the issue of the Armenian
Genocide we find ourselves in politics and face hard-edged and dirty
negation. Secondly, dialogue with Turkish intelligentsia from Turkey,
i.e. people depending on the authorities, became impossible. It's hard
to believe, alas, that there are honest scientists among the Turkish
intelligentsia today.
Azg/arm
01 Dec 04
The French Le Mond newspaper published noted French scholar Yves
Ternon's interview after the Venice scientific conference late in
October. Below we present the interview.
- How did it happen that Yves Ternon, the surgeon, became a noted
historian studying genocides?
- This is an extensive process that has been continuing for 40 years
now. As a surgeon I was worried over the heinous experiments of nazi
doctors during the WW II. I found out that they were totally connected
with the Jewish Holocaust. I began reviewing into the matter together
with my friend Dr. Socrat Hellmann and after having worked for 10
years I switched to the Armenian Cause. I say "Armenian Cause" as I
was not sure at the time that I deal with genocide. I could not
suppose that I will face the phenomenon of negation that gradually
enlarges resulting today in nonsensical situations. Getting deeper
into the issue of Armenian Genocide I could not overlook the fact any
more. Later onI tried to include the issue of genocide definition into
the context of 20-century atrocities. It is obvious that the two
mentioned cases (with Armenians and Jews) as well as the actions
against Tutsis in Rwanda are undoubtedly described as
genocide. Concerning the atrocities committed by Red Khmers in
Cambodia and the famine of 1932-33 in Ukraine, I can only say that
they need to be investigated. I think that professionalism comes out
in tough spheres. Thatis the reason why I will limit my comparative
analysis' circle with only the three mentioned genocides that will
give us the chance for a better understandingof genocides.
- Did not your profession of surgeon enable you do suchlike
researches?
- Not at all. By the way, that was due to my friends that I became
doctor of history, not out of vanity but wishing to be a reliable
specialist.
- Could you please tell about Venice scientific conference that took
place at the end of October? Where did the initiative come?
- The conference was held on October 28-30. Father Zekiyan, former
member of Mkhitarian Congregation, and Prof. Rigoy of Chini Foundation
were the initiators. There were 20 scientists participating. We were
hosted in San Giorno Majore Island. The aim of the meeting was to
discuss the history of Armenian-Turkish relations. There were
participants from Armenia, USA (Ruben Adalian), Canada (Prof. Frank
Cholt), Israel (Prof. Charney), France (Ramón Gevorgian and me).
There were scientists from Italy as well. Everything would be fine but
for few braggart and provoking Turks. I don't mean Mr. Zaraqolu and
Taner Akcam, of course, they are independent historians, but I mean
those scientists from Ankara and Istanbul. Hence, Prof. Bektay made a
challenging speech saying that the principle of Armenian Genocide is
not a subject of discussion. He said that Turkey is not ready to
recognize Armenian Genocide, and that only progressive minds in Turkey
speak about the Genocide. He said that Turkey needs to become EN
member firstly and only then bring up such issues. That was simply a
trap. It 's known that anyone mentioning the Armenian Genocide in
Turkey is to get 10 years of imprisonment according to the 305 article
of the constitution. In my speech I spoke about state negationism
comparing Armenian Genocide with the Holocaust and the genocide of
Tutsis in Rwanda. Bektay became blush. He showed few documents
evidently abridged saying that he does not deny the fact of the
Genocide. Whereas, it is banned to talk of Genocide in Turkey's
universities. German Prof. Geunz defended pastor Lepsius' position. I
told one ofthe professors from Ankara that he does not comprehend the
essence of the Genocide. There may be no compromising, either you
recognize the Genocide or you do not. I urged Prof. Bektay to inform
his masters that denial is not the best way.
We learnt during the conference that there are two positions in
Turkey, both governmental. First one is more hard-handed and prohibits
any recognition, the second one tends to bury the hatchet but gains
time till December 17 when the EU is to publish its report on starting
accession talks with Turkey. Such a speculation is very worrying. Many
traps have been set.
Despite all these the conference was on a high level. Speeches will be
published soon.
- So the conference did not turn into political debate?
- No, our work was intellectual in essence. But there were still two
opinions. Firstly, any time we raise the issue of the Armenian
Genocide we find ourselves in politics and face hard-edged and dirty
negation. Secondly, dialogue with Turkish intelligentsia from Turkey,
i.e. people depending on the authorities, became impossible. It's hard
to believe, alas, that there are honest scientists among the Turkish
intelligentsia today.