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THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS IN THE PROCESS OF ARMENIA'S
COMPLIANCE WITH COMMITMENTS TO THE COUNCIL OF EUROPE
ARKA News Agency - Interview
Sept 9 2004
Tigran TOROSYAN's Exclusive interview of RA NA Deputy Chairman,
the Head of the Armenian delegation in PACE to ARKA News Agency.
ARKA - As it's known, the new draft on constitutional amendments is
supposed to be included into the agenda of the Parliament. Which are
the main new provisions in it compared to the present Constitution,
and how do they defer from the old package of amendments turned down
at the referendum of 2003?
T. Torosyan - At present there are two draft laws on constitutional
amendments (the draft submitted by the political coalition and that
by the opposition - ARKA), and the commission to consider them is
chosen to be the temporary commission on European integration. The
issue of including both draft laws into the agenda of the session
will be discussed during next session on September 8. Taking into
consideration the importance of the draft laws, I think that there
will be no problem in case they are included into the agenda. I
think that the coming discussions will be quite broad, as it was in
the case with the first package of the constitutional amendments,
submitted to a referendum in 2003. Of course, nobody initially can
guess the future of the draft laws, as the final decision is to be
made by the public. However, two aspects should be clearly marked off:
the answer received after the referendum; and the work done before
it. Scrupulousness of the work will determine the extent of perception
of by the society. Simultaneously, during the work of the commission
and the discussions in the Parliament the draft of amendments should
be improved as much as possible. Thus, about 70 suggestions were made
during the discussion of the previous draft law and the majority
of them were reflected in the document. In regard with this, one
should not consider the shortcomings in the draft law as something
extraordinary, since the gist of the draft is in enabling Deputies
submit as perfectly developed document as possible to the final voting
after having developed it. In both the new and the previous draft laws
on constitutional amendments the main provisions remained unchanged,
namely: the draft law must improve the constitutional mechanisms for
a man to exercise rights and the principle freedoms, and provide for
a complex of counterpoises for the system of governance as well as
full constitutional guarantees for the creation of an independent
and impartial judicial system and full-fledged institutions of local
governing. These aspects proceed from our experience of applying
constitution and tendencies considered in the constitutional processes
of the European countries. As compared to the previous draft law,
the amendments concern the system of governance, judicial system
and that of institutions of local governing. In particular, if the
previous draft law provided for a system by which the president could
twice submit the state program to the Parliament and, in case it was
turned down by the latter for the third time, the Parliament would
form the Government by itself, then the last provision was amended
in the new draft law. Thus, if the state program submitted by the
president is turned down by the parliament for the third time, then
the President has the right to dismiss the Parliament. I think that
this system has certain shortcomings, which we will try to correct
during the discussion around it. An extremely important amendment
refers to the activity of the Council of Justice. Thus, according to
the amendment, the Ministry of Justice directly submits suggestions
regarding the judicial system to the President. In the previous
version it was done at the initiative of the Minister of Justice,
meanwhile the judicial system must be separated from the executive
power. The new draft on constitutional amendments differs from the
previous one by its status as well: it's a deputy draft law, which
will be considered in three readings and in case it is a success,
it will initiate a referendum, while the first one provided for such
an initiative on the part of the President.
ARKA - The opposition finds the amendments to the Constitution mainly
as negative, aimed at strengthening the presidential authority and
undermining the power of the parliament. What is your opinion about
it? As to you, which are the main shortcomings of the provision on
approval of a state program?
T. Torosyan - Such a position of the opposition pursues political
goals. I would like to remind that during the discussion of the
previous draft law they again criticized it. Of course, Deputies have
full right to make political statements, but their main duty is to
work in Parliamentary commissions and at the sessions of NA. If they
notice such shortcomings, they can make corresponding amendments and
not having done it it's early to speak of the shortcomings of the draft
law. With regard to the authority, for some reasons the authorities
exercised by the president, the Government and NA are considered in
a numerical correlation, but the goal is not in entitling anyone with
more authority at the expense of the others. The goal is more serious,
namely, to ensure such a complex of authorities that would allow
creating a full system of counterpoises for normal work of each branch
of power and restraining the attempts of the other branch to abuse its
authorities. I have already mentioned that there are shortcomings in
the draft law on the approval of the state program and they refer to
the point stipulating dismissal of the Parliament. New elections will
be held after the dismissal of the NA, hence, almost the same staff
may be elected to the Parliament. So, a way out should be tried to
be found. However, I would like to note that the principle of the
formation of the Government and the dismissal of the Parliament,
which is the base of this and the previous draft laws, significantly
differs from the principle of the acting Constitution, according to
which the President may dismiss the Parliament any moment. And now
dismissal of the Parliament is stipulated for certain cases, i.e. when
the legislative body doesn't function for a long period of time. This
makes the Parliament more independent and increases its role.
ARKA - There are rumors in the society that the issue of holding
presidential office for the third term is being discussed within the
frames of the Constitution. How grounded are such talks?
T. Torosyan - I would like to remind that such kind of absurd
talks spread in 2003 during the work at the previous draft law on
constitutional amendment as well. But the time showed that nothing
of the kind was stipulated by the draft law. The new version also
lacks such a provision. If someone wants to consider himself as an
extrasensory individual and guesses someone's thoughts, then this
already refers to parapsychology field, but not to legislative work.
However, I can assure that no considerations or suggestions about it
have been made during 4 years.
ARKA - The main reason because of which the first package of
constitutional amendments was not approved when submitted to the
referendum was considered to be the society's unawareness. Do you
manage to avoid the problems this time?
T.Torosyan - There is really such a goal as to increase the awareness
and understanding of the importance of the constitutional amendments in
the society. At that, I think that it should be achieved not by means
of mere publication of the amendments to be made so that each citizen
could read and participate in the referendum, as our colleagues from
the opposition suggested. Of course, the amendments are necessary
to be published in large circulation, and no other opinion can be
here. But on the other hand, I think that it's a rather populist
measure, as it's obvious that the Constitution is a quite complex legal
document, and the society, as a rule, never studies such documents in
details. So, the duty of the political powers and NGOs called to work
at such documents is to introduce what these amendments provide for,
what new changes they will bring in the lives of each family and the
country on the whole. Besides, if we speak of the last referendum, we
shouldn't forget that it was held simultaneously with the parliamentary
elections and it's quite possible that the parties were first of all
concerned about the quantity of the seats occupied in the parliament
and they almost didn't get back to the issue of the Constitution.
ARKA - It was supposed that the report on Nagorno-Karabakh by Terry
Davis would be introduced at the autumn session in PACE, but since
September 1 Davis holds a new position of a Secretary General of
the Council of Europe, and the new reporter, the name of which is
not known yet, will hardly have the time to study the problem. What
solution may be found in this case?
T.Torosyan - The report on Nagorno-Karabakh by Terry Davis is already
in PACE and will be included into the agenda of the session of the PACE
political commission to be held on September 14. However, in regard
with T. Davis's being Secretary General of the Council of Europe,
but not the Deputy of PACE, a new reporter must be appointed for the
introduction of the report. I think that the report itself will be
preserved, but on the other hand it's obvious that such documents
undergo a lot of changes in the curse of discussions, so the new
reporter must study the issue thoroughly. I suppose that for this
purpose it would be better to postpone the discussion of the report
and not to consider it at the session of PACE on October 4. This would
allow the new reporter to study the issue better. It would be also
very useful if he visited the region. I think that the commission
would approve such a suggestion. With regard to a new reporter,
he will be elected from the members of the political commission.
ARKA - You suggested to organize a round -table discussion on
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict in PACE. What stage is your suggestion at?
T. Torosyan -The PACE Chairman on political issues suggested
considering this issue during the session of the commission on
September 14. I hope that the decision of the commission will be
positive. Simple logic implies it, as it's impossible to expect the
settlement of the conflict when one of the parties in the conflict
(Nagorno-Karabakh - ARKA) is kept away from everything. It's not a
realistic approach. Besides, there are traditions in PACE that give
hopes: parties in the conflict are even invited to the session of
the commission, as it was in the case of the discussion of the Cyprus
conflict, when the representatives of the Turkish community of Cyprus
were present at the session.
ARKA - How ready is the report on Armenia by the member of the PACE
monitoring commission Jerzy Jaskernia? Will it be considered at the
autumn session of PACE, taking into account that the last term for
Armenia to comply with the main commitments is the end of 2004?
T.Torosyan - The session of the PACE commission on monitoring will
be held on September 15, and the agenda of the session contains the
report by Jaskernia. It is formulated as follows: compliance of RA
with the commitments in the frames of April and January resolutions.
>>From my perspective it would be more expedient to introduce the
report during PACE January session in 2005, since January resolution
1361 on Armenia contains some points that determine the term to comply
with the commitments - the end of the year, so the discussion of them
till the end of the term is not logical. We will suggest discussing the
issue in January, especially if no emergencies happened in Armenian
after April. At that I will note that a significant progress in the
process of Armenia's compliance with the commitments to the Council of
Europe is recorded. In particular, with respect to January resolution,
we actually guide by the fixed schedule. We leg a little behind of
the intervening terms for making amendments to the Constitution and
the Election Code, and the reason is that for a month and a half we
were waiting for the opposition to take part in the work, whereas it
refused to do so. However I think that we will manage to accelerate
the process and catch up with the fixed terms. Almost all points of
April resolution 1374 are complied with. Since we have a progress,
I think it would be possible to postpone the discussion of the issue
of commitments and do it with more details.
ARKA - What expectations do you have from the autumn session of the
Parliament? Will the Parliament manage to start the work with its
full staff? What political decision is the Council of RA NA going to
make in this connection?
T.Torosyan - The events of the recent months make an erroneous
impression that the return of the opposition to the Parliament will
be a gift to the authorities or the majority of the parliamentary.
Parliament is the place of our work and each of us has its liabilities
rather to the society on the whole than to one another. I am sure
that if the opposition doesn't take part in the work, it will have
to make its explanations to the society. The excuses brought by
the opposition about the boycott cannot be considered as grounded.
Taking into account the fact that quite important documents for Armenia
will be discussed at the autumn session, I see no logical excuse for
why the Deputies should not participate in them. On the contrary,
if they have suggestions how to improve the welfare in the country,
then it's a good reason for them to come and introduce their positions
and prove their rightfulness. The society should have the chance in
the Parliament to compare what the majority of the parliament offers
and what's offered by the opposition. Moreover, the opposition suffers
from some inferiority complex because of the failure of the autumn
rallies of protest. In regard with this, it doesn't want to return
to the Parliament, though it's a good chance for it to continue
the political struggle by means of legislative work. Anyway, I hope
that the Deputies from the opposition will not be deprived of their
mandates, and there will be no need to replenish their seats with new
deputies. However, we should not forget that the law is the same for
everyone and everybody is obliged to follow it. A.H. -0--
COMPLIANCE WITH COMMITMENTS TO THE COUNCIL OF EUROPE
ARKA News Agency - Interview
Sept 9 2004
Tigran TOROSYAN's Exclusive interview of RA NA Deputy Chairman,
the Head of the Armenian delegation in PACE to ARKA News Agency.
ARKA - As it's known, the new draft on constitutional amendments is
supposed to be included into the agenda of the Parliament. Which are
the main new provisions in it compared to the present Constitution,
and how do they defer from the old package of amendments turned down
at the referendum of 2003?
T. Torosyan - At present there are two draft laws on constitutional
amendments (the draft submitted by the political coalition and that
by the opposition - ARKA), and the commission to consider them is
chosen to be the temporary commission on European integration. The
issue of including both draft laws into the agenda of the session
will be discussed during next session on September 8. Taking into
consideration the importance of the draft laws, I think that there
will be no problem in case they are included into the agenda. I
think that the coming discussions will be quite broad, as it was in
the case with the first package of the constitutional amendments,
submitted to a referendum in 2003. Of course, nobody initially can
guess the future of the draft laws, as the final decision is to be
made by the public. However, two aspects should be clearly marked off:
the answer received after the referendum; and the work done before
it. Scrupulousness of the work will determine the extent of perception
of by the society. Simultaneously, during the work of the commission
and the discussions in the Parliament the draft of amendments should
be improved as much as possible. Thus, about 70 suggestions were made
during the discussion of the previous draft law and the majority
of them were reflected in the document. In regard with this, one
should not consider the shortcomings in the draft law as something
extraordinary, since the gist of the draft is in enabling Deputies
submit as perfectly developed document as possible to the final voting
after having developed it. In both the new and the previous draft laws
on constitutional amendments the main provisions remained unchanged,
namely: the draft law must improve the constitutional mechanisms for
a man to exercise rights and the principle freedoms, and provide for
a complex of counterpoises for the system of governance as well as
full constitutional guarantees for the creation of an independent
and impartial judicial system and full-fledged institutions of local
governing. These aspects proceed from our experience of applying
constitution and tendencies considered in the constitutional processes
of the European countries. As compared to the previous draft law,
the amendments concern the system of governance, judicial system
and that of institutions of local governing. In particular, if the
previous draft law provided for a system by which the president could
twice submit the state program to the Parliament and, in case it was
turned down by the latter for the third time, the Parliament would
form the Government by itself, then the last provision was amended
in the new draft law. Thus, if the state program submitted by the
president is turned down by the parliament for the third time, then
the President has the right to dismiss the Parliament. I think that
this system has certain shortcomings, which we will try to correct
during the discussion around it. An extremely important amendment
refers to the activity of the Council of Justice. Thus, according to
the amendment, the Ministry of Justice directly submits suggestions
regarding the judicial system to the President. In the previous
version it was done at the initiative of the Minister of Justice,
meanwhile the judicial system must be separated from the executive
power. The new draft on constitutional amendments differs from the
previous one by its status as well: it's a deputy draft law, which
will be considered in three readings and in case it is a success,
it will initiate a referendum, while the first one provided for such
an initiative on the part of the President.
ARKA - The opposition finds the amendments to the Constitution mainly
as negative, aimed at strengthening the presidential authority and
undermining the power of the parliament. What is your opinion about
it? As to you, which are the main shortcomings of the provision on
approval of a state program?
T. Torosyan - Such a position of the opposition pursues political
goals. I would like to remind that during the discussion of the
previous draft law they again criticized it. Of course, Deputies have
full right to make political statements, but their main duty is to
work in Parliamentary commissions and at the sessions of NA. If they
notice such shortcomings, they can make corresponding amendments and
not having done it it's early to speak of the shortcomings of the draft
law. With regard to the authority, for some reasons the authorities
exercised by the president, the Government and NA are considered in
a numerical correlation, but the goal is not in entitling anyone with
more authority at the expense of the others. The goal is more serious,
namely, to ensure such a complex of authorities that would allow
creating a full system of counterpoises for normal work of each branch
of power and restraining the attempts of the other branch to abuse its
authorities. I have already mentioned that there are shortcomings in
the draft law on the approval of the state program and they refer to
the point stipulating dismissal of the Parliament. New elections will
be held after the dismissal of the NA, hence, almost the same staff
may be elected to the Parliament. So, a way out should be tried to
be found. However, I would like to note that the principle of the
formation of the Government and the dismissal of the Parliament,
which is the base of this and the previous draft laws, significantly
differs from the principle of the acting Constitution, according to
which the President may dismiss the Parliament any moment. And now
dismissal of the Parliament is stipulated for certain cases, i.e. when
the legislative body doesn't function for a long period of time. This
makes the Parliament more independent and increases its role.
ARKA - There are rumors in the society that the issue of holding
presidential office for the third term is being discussed within the
frames of the Constitution. How grounded are such talks?
T. Torosyan - I would like to remind that such kind of absurd
talks spread in 2003 during the work at the previous draft law on
constitutional amendment as well. But the time showed that nothing
of the kind was stipulated by the draft law. The new version also
lacks such a provision. If someone wants to consider himself as an
extrasensory individual and guesses someone's thoughts, then this
already refers to parapsychology field, but not to legislative work.
However, I can assure that no considerations or suggestions about it
have been made during 4 years.
ARKA - The main reason because of which the first package of
constitutional amendments was not approved when submitted to the
referendum was considered to be the society's unawareness. Do you
manage to avoid the problems this time?
T.Torosyan - There is really such a goal as to increase the awareness
and understanding of the importance of the constitutional amendments in
the society. At that, I think that it should be achieved not by means
of mere publication of the amendments to be made so that each citizen
could read and participate in the referendum, as our colleagues from
the opposition suggested. Of course, the amendments are necessary
to be published in large circulation, and no other opinion can be
here. But on the other hand, I think that it's a rather populist
measure, as it's obvious that the Constitution is a quite complex legal
document, and the society, as a rule, never studies such documents in
details. So, the duty of the political powers and NGOs called to work
at such documents is to introduce what these amendments provide for,
what new changes they will bring in the lives of each family and the
country on the whole. Besides, if we speak of the last referendum, we
shouldn't forget that it was held simultaneously with the parliamentary
elections and it's quite possible that the parties were first of all
concerned about the quantity of the seats occupied in the parliament
and they almost didn't get back to the issue of the Constitution.
ARKA - It was supposed that the report on Nagorno-Karabakh by Terry
Davis would be introduced at the autumn session in PACE, but since
September 1 Davis holds a new position of a Secretary General of
the Council of Europe, and the new reporter, the name of which is
not known yet, will hardly have the time to study the problem. What
solution may be found in this case?
T.Torosyan - The report on Nagorno-Karabakh by Terry Davis is already
in PACE and will be included into the agenda of the session of the PACE
political commission to be held on September 14. However, in regard
with T. Davis's being Secretary General of the Council of Europe,
but not the Deputy of PACE, a new reporter must be appointed for the
introduction of the report. I think that the report itself will be
preserved, but on the other hand it's obvious that such documents
undergo a lot of changes in the curse of discussions, so the new
reporter must study the issue thoroughly. I suppose that for this
purpose it would be better to postpone the discussion of the report
and not to consider it at the session of PACE on October 4. This would
allow the new reporter to study the issue better. It would be also
very useful if he visited the region. I think that the commission
would approve such a suggestion. With regard to a new reporter,
he will be elected from the members of the political commission.
ARKA - You suggested to organize a round -table discussion on
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict in PACE. What stage is your suggestion at?
T. Torosyan -The PACE Chairman on political issues suggested
considering this issue during the session of the commission on
September 14. I hope that the decision of the commission will be
positive. Simple logic implies it, as it's impossible to expect the
settlement of the conflict when one of the parties in the conflict
(Nagorno-Karabakh - ARKA) is kept away from everything. It's not a
realistic approach. Besides, there are traditions in PACE that give
hopes: parties in the conflict are even invited to the session of
the commission, as it was in the case of the discussion of the Cyprus
conflict, when the representatives of the Turkish community of Cyprus
were present at the session.
ARKA - How ready is the report on Armenia by the member of the PACE
monitoring commission Jerzy Jaskernia? Will it be considered at the
autumn session of PACE, taking into account that the last term for
Armenia to comply with the main commitments is the end of 2004?
T.Torosyan - The session of the PACE commission on monitoring will
be held on September 15, and the agenda of the session contains the
report by Jaskernia. It is formulated as follows: compliance of RA
with the commitments in the frames of April and January resolutions.
>>From my perspective it would be more expedient to introduce the
report during PACE January session in 2005, since January resolution
1361 on Armenia contains some points that determine the term to comply
with the commitments - the end of the year, so the discussion of them
till the end of the term is not logical. We will suggest discussing the
issue in January, especially if no emergencies happened in Armenian
after April. At that I will note that a significant progress in the
process of Armenia's compliance with the commitments to the Council of
Europe is recorded. In particular, with respect to January resolution,
we actually guide by the fixed schedule. We leg a little behind of
the intervening terms for making amendments to the Constitution and
the Election Code, and the reason is that for a month and a half we
were waiting for the opposition to take part in the work, whereas it
refused to do so. However I think that we will manage to accelerate
the process and catch up with the fixed terms. Almost all points of
April resolution 1374 are complied with. Since we have a progress,
I think it would be possible to postpone the discussion of the issue
of commitments and do it with more details.
ARKA - What expectations do you have from the autumn session of the
Parliament? Will the Parliament manage to start the work with its
full staff? What political decision is the Council of RA NA going to
make in this connection?
T.Torosyan - The events of the recent months make an erroneous
impression that the return of the opposition to the Parliament will
be a gift to the authorities or the majority of the parliamentary.
Parliament is the place of our work and each of us has its liabilities
rather to the society on the whole than to one another. I am sure
that if the opposition doesn't take part in the work, it will have
to make its explanations to the society. The excuses brought by
the opposition about the boycott cannot be considered as grounded.
Taking into account the fact that quite important documents for Armenia
will be discussed at the autumn session, I see no logical excuse for
why the Deputies should not participate in them. On the contrary,
if they have suggestions how to improve the welfare in the country,
then it's a good reason for them to come and introduce their positions
and prove their rightfulness. The society should have the chance in
the Parliament to compare what the majority of the parliament offers
and what's offered by the opposition. Moreover, the opposition suffers
from some inferiority complex because of the failure of the autumn
rallies of protest. In regard with this, it doesn't want to return
to the Parliament, though it's a good chance for it to continue
the political struggle by means of legislative work. Anyway, I hope
that the Deputies from the opposition will not be deprived of their
mandates, and there will be no need to replenish their seats with new
deputies. However, we should not forget that the law is the same for
everyone and everybody is obliged to follow it. A.H. -0--