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Saakashvili claims increased role for Georgia as geopolitical player
Rustavi-2 TV, Tbilisi
3 Apr 05
President Mikheil Saakashvili has said that Georgia is playing an
active part in a "geopolitical revolution" sweeping across the former
Soviet Union. The Georgian and Ukrainian foreign ministers' joint
visit to Kyrgyzstan last week succeeded in easing the political crisis
there, he told Rustavi-2 TV, adding that this proved that Georgia had
"learnt to influence developments". Saakashvili also announced that
he had rejected Vladimir Putin's offer to host a meeting involving
the Russian and Georgian presidents and the Abkhaz and South Ossetian
separatist leaders. Saakashvili said that the proposed format was
unacceptable to Georgia and that he favoured bilateral talks with
the separatists. The following is the text of a report by Rustavi-2
on 3 April; subheadings inserted editorially:
[Presenter] The Georgian president gave "Kviris Kurieri" [this
programme] an interview today. Saakashvili is gaining weight in
international politics. In Moscow, he is being referred to with
irritation as an importer [as heard] of revolutions. Although things
are not so bright in domestic politics, he believes that there are
important changes taking place outside the country that will determine
Georgia's political and economic security. What offer by Vladimir
Putin has Mikheil Saakashvili turned down? Irma Nadirashvili reports.
Putin's offer of talks with separatists
[Correspondent, to Saakashvili] First of all, is it true that you have
rejected Vladimir Putin's invitation to come to Sochi where you may
have met [Abkhaz separatist leader Sergey] Bagapsh and [South Ossetian
separatist leader Eduard] Kokoiti? [Saakashvili's answer not broadcast]
[Correspondent, continues] Mikheil Saakashvili has rejected Putin's
invitation to come to Sochi. The proposed format of the meeting reminds
him of relations between [USSR] Communist Party Central Committee
secretaries. It is essential that talks are held with Sergey Bagapsh
and Eduard Kokoiti, but Tbilisi is the only possible venue.
[Saakashvili] There has indeed been an offer of talks in Sochi. The
idea of a meeting with these groups is unacceptable to Georgia from
the very start. The Russians are also well aware of that. As regards
bilateral meetings, we do favour such meetings. However, our view,
which the Russian side accepted, was that it would only be worth
holding a meeting if the two sides made up their minds and agreed on
some specific issues.
We do not operate under the old system. We operate in a system where
all decisions affecting the state are thoroughly prepared, with
the interests of both sides taken into account, so that there are no
surprises and no excesses. The two countries should talk to each other
like proper states. Georgia has already become a state and it talks
to everyone as such. Therefore, with full adherence to official state
procedures, we will of course continue our relationship with Russia,
including at the top level. There is no doubt about it.
As regards a hastily arranged meeting, I think we have convinced
the other side that every meeting should produce a result. We both
understand that there is no point having a meeting for a meeting's
sake.
[Correspondent] He has not yet decided whether or not he will go to
Moscow to attend the event the Russians are holding to celebrate
victory over Nazism. The Georgian president is still waiting for
Vladimir Putin's final decision on the removal of the Russian bases
from Georgia.
Armenian president's visit
In Akhalkalaki, where opposition to the withdrawal of the Russians is
the strongest, the majority of the population are ethnic Armenians.
If anyone from outside could sway them, it would be Robert Kocharyan
[Armenian president], who paid a surprise visit to Tbilisi two
days ago.
[Saakashvili] If you decide to pop in in the evening to have a cup
of tea with your neighbour, you do not have to call them two weeks in
advance. Whenever we as neighbours want to discuss something specific
or just to see each other, we can always visit each other without any
warning - it is not that far - lock ourselves in a room and talk when
there are things to discuss. We will always have things to discuss
with Armenia and Azerbaijan because we are so dependent on each other,
our lives are so interwoven, and there are so many common problems
that it would be really foolish not to take advantage of such links.
[Correspondent, to Saakashvili] Some people say that it was Putin
who sent Kocharyan here.
[Saakashvili] No, certainly not. Armenia is an independent country
with its own interests. Armenia is our neighbour. Its president and
political elite are well disposed towards Georgia. Likewise, we,
of course, are extremely well disposed towards our neighbours. If we
do not help each other, it would be very difficult for us to achieve
anything either at home or abroad. That is natural.
Georgia gaining weight in regional politics
[Correspondent] In the past two weeks, the situation in the country
has been tense. There have been power shortages and street protests.
However, the past two weeks have also seen a marked increase in
foreign policy activity. No sooner had President Saakashvili returned
from a trip to Ukraine than he went to Kazakhstan. Simultaneously,
he sent Foreign Minister Salome Zourabichvili to post-revolutionary
Kyrgyzstan, who went there together with her Ukrainian counterpart.
[Saakashvili] The fact that they had a crisis of legitimacy, the
fact that the Georgian and Ukrainian ministers went there together
- that is a precedent we have created - and the fact that this was
followed almost immediately by action from other neighbours and former
[Kyrgyz] President [Askar] Akayev's statement that he would resign -
all of that means that we have learnt to influence developments to
a certain extent.
[Correspondent] Following the Rose Revolution [which brought
Saakashvili to power], Russia has lost its influence in Ukraine,
Moldova and Kyrgyzstan in quick succession. The Georgian and Ukrainian
presidents are now preparing a new project, this time an economic
one. It concerns an Odessa-Brody oil terminal, which is to be linked
to Supsa [port in Georgia], so that there is an export route for
Kazakh oil that will bypass Russia.
[Saakashvili] The most important thing, both at home and abroad,
is to seize the initiative. We should never wait for things to calm
down around us because this may not happen. Ukraine [the change of
government in Ukraine] may not have happened because Europe was rather
passive until the very end, until the revolution entered its decisive
phase. There was a fair amount of scepticism from other countries. That
is why we should never wait for others to say or do something. We
should know what is important to us and how we feel it should be done.
We are currently living in a unique situation where Georgia has become
not only a fact of life but also a factor.
[Correspondent] By his own admission, all his foreign policy moves
serve a single purpose, which is to restore Georgian territorial
integrity.
[Saakashvili] We are most certainly on the right track today. We are
really getting a historic chance to break the curse, geographical and
political, that has been on us for so many centuries. We can break
it once and for all and reach the place where we belong, which is
European civilization.
[Correspondent] The American president's forthcoming visit to
Georgia is an event almost as important as the Rose Revolution,
Mikheil Saakashvili believes.
[Saakashvili] This is undoubtedly a historic visit. It perfectly fits
the context of the geopolitical revolution that is taking place in
Georgia and abroad, with the active participation of Georgia.
Rustavi-2 TV, Tbilisi
3 Apr 05
President Mikheil Saakashvili has said that Georgia is playing an
active part in a "geopolitical revolution" sweeping across the former
Soviet Union. The Georgian and Ukrainian foreign ministers' joint
visit to Kyrgyzstan last week succeeded in easing the political crisis
there, he told Rustavi-2 TV, adding that this proved that Georgia had
"learnt to influence developments". Saakashvili also announced that
he had rejected Vladimir Putin's offer to host a meeting involving
the Russian and Georgian presidents and the Abkhaz and South Ossetian
separatist leaders. Saakashvili said that the proposed format was
unacceptable to Georgia and that he favoured bilateral talks with
the separatists. The following is the text of a report by Rustavi-2
on 3 April; subheadings inserted editorially:
[Presenter] The Georgian president gave "Kviris Kurieri" [this
programme] an interview today. Saakashvili is gaining weight in
international politics. In Moscow, he is being referred to with
irritation as an importer [as heard] of revolutions. Although things
are not so bright in domestic politics, he believes that there are
important changes taking place outside the country that will determine
Georgia's political and economic security. What offer by Vladimir
Putin has Mikheil Saakashvili turned down? Irma Nadirashvili reports.
Putin's offer of talks with separatists
[Correspondent, to Saakashvili] First of all, is it true that you have
rejected Vladimir Putin's invitation to come to Sochi where you may
have met [Abkhaz separatist leader Sergey] Bagapsh and [South Ossetian
separatist leader Eduard] Kokoiti? [Saakashvili's answer not broadcast]
[Correspondent, continues] Mikheil Saakashvili has rejected Putin's
invitation to come to Sochi. The proposed format of the meeting reminds
him of relations between [USSR] Communist Party Central Committee
secretaries. It is essential that talks are held with Sergey Bagapsh
and Eduard Kokoiti, but Tbilisi is the only possible venue.
[Saakashvili] There has indeed been an offer of talks in Sochi. The
idea of a meeting with these groups is unacceptable to Georgia from
the very start. The Russians are also well aware of that. As regards
bilateral meetings, we do favour such meetings. However, our view,
which the Russian side accepted, was that it would only be worth
holding a meeting if the two sides made up their minds and agreed on
some specific issues.
We do not operate under the old system. We operate in a system where
all decisions affecting the state are thoroughly prepared, with
the interests of both sides taken into account, so that there are no
surprises and no excesses. The two countries should talk to each other
like proper states. Georgia has already become a state and it talks
to everyone as such. Therefore, with full adherence to official state
procedures, we will of course continue our relationship with Russia,
including at the top level. There is no doubt about it.
As regards a hastily arranged meeting, I think we have convinced
the other side that every meeting should produce a result. We both
understand that there is no point having a meeting for a meeting's
sake.
[Correspondent] He has not yet decided whether or not he will go to
Moscow to attend the event the Russians are holding to celebrate
victory over Nazism. The Georgian president is still waiting for
Vladimir Putin's final decision on the removal of the Russian bases
from Georgia.
Armenian president's visit
In Akhalkalaki, where opposition to the withdrawal of the Russians is
the strongest, the majority of the population are ethnic Armenians.
If anyone from outside could sway them, it would be Robert Kocharyan
[Armenian president], who paid a surprise visit to Tbilisi two
days ago.
[Saakashvili] If you decide to pop in in the evening to have a cup
of tea with your neighbour, you do not have to call them two weeks in
advance. Whenever we as neighbours want to discuss something specific
or just to see each other, we can always visit each other without any
warning - it is not that far - lock ourselves in a room and talk when
there are things to discuss. We will always have things to discuss
with Armenia and Azerbaijan because we are so dependent on each other,
our lives are so interwoven, and there are so many common problems
that it would be really foolish not to take advantage of such links.
[Correspondent, to Saakashvili] Some people say that it was Putin
who sent Kocharyan here.
[Saakashvili] No, certainly not. Armenia is an independent country
with its own interests. Armenia is our neighbour. Its president and
political elite are well disposed towards Georgia. Likewise, we,
of course, are extremely well disposed towards our neighbours. If we
do not help each other, it would be very difficult for us to achieve
anything either at home or abroad. That is natural.
Georgia gaining weight in regional politics
[Correspondent] In the past two weeks, the situation in the country
has been tense. There have been power shortages and street protests.
However, the past two weeks have also seen a marked increase in
foreign policy activity. No sooner had President Saakashvili returned
from a trip to Ukraine than he went to Kazakhstan. Simultaneously,
he sent Foreign Minister Salome Zourabichvili to post-revolutionary
Kyrgyzstan, who went there together with her Ukrainian counterpart.
[Saakashvili] The fact that they had a crisis of legitimacy, the
fact that the Georgian and Ukrainian ministers went there together
- that is a precedent we have created - and the fact that this was
followed almost immediately by action from other neighbours and former
[Kyrgyz] President [Askar] Akayev's statement that he would resign -
all of that means that we have learnt to influence developments to
a certain extent.
[Correspondent] Following the Rose Revolution [which brought
Saakashvili to power], Russia has lost its influence in Ukraine,
Moldova and Kyrgyzstan in quick succession. The Georgian and Ukrainian
presidents are now preparing a new project, this time an economic
one. It concerns an Odessa-Brody oil terminal, which is to be linked
to Supsa [port in Georgia], so that there is an export route for
Kazakh oil that will bypass Russia.
[Saakashvili] The most important thing, both at home and abroad,
is to seize the initiative. We should never wait for things to calm
down around us because this may not happen. Ukraine [the change of
government in Ukraine] may not have happened because Europe was rather
passive until the very end, until the revolution entered its decisive
phase. There was a fair amount of scepticism from other countries. That
is why we should never wait for others to say or do something. We
should know what is important to us and how we feel it should be done.
We are currently living in a unique situation where Georgia has become
not only a fact of life but also a factor.
[Correspondent] By his own admission, all his foreign policy moves
serve a single purpose, which is to restore Georgian territorial
integrity.
[Saakashvili] We are most certainly on the right track today. We are
really getting a historic chance to break the curse, geographical and
political, that has been on us for so many centuries. We can break
it once and for all and reach the place where we belong, which is
European civilization.
[Correspondent] The American president's forthcoming visit to
Georgia is an event almost as important as the Rose Revolution,
Mikheil Saakashvili believes.
[Saakashvili] This is undoubtedly a historic visit. It perfectly fits
the context of the geopolitical revolution that is taking place in
Georgia and abroad, with the active participation of Georgia.