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SHOW: All Things Considered 8:00 AM EST NPR
June 8, 2005 Wednesday
Recap Tayyip Erdogan discusses terrorism, relations with the US and
membership in the European Union
MELISSA BLOCK, ROBERT SIEGEL
MELISSA BLOCK, host:
This is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. I'm Melissa Block.
ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
And I'm Robert Siegel.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey met today with
President Bush. He is an interesting politician on the far end of an
interesting bilateral relationship. Erdogan used to advocate Islamist
politics in secular Turkey. He served a jail term for that.
Washington and Ankara are strategic partners despite complaints of
anti-US sentiment among the Turks. Relations were strained by
Turkey's refusal in 2003 to provide a staging ground for US forces to
enter Iraq. The US backs Turkish entry into the European Union. Talks
are set for October 3rd on that. Also, Turkey faces a domestic
insurgency by the PKK, a movement of Turkish Kurds. America's most
fervent supporters in Iraq are the Iraqi Kurds. And Prime Minister
Erdogan told me yesterday that the PKK is using Iraqi soil as a
staging ground for attacks to the north in Turkey.
Prime Minister RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (Turkey): (Through Translator)
There are at the moment camps of the PKK terrorist organization in
northern Iraq. As you know, the Iranian terrorist organization the
People's Mujahideen used to operate in this region. After the United
States' intervention, the People's Mujahideen was dispersed. We are
sharing intelligence with the United States on this matter. The
elimination of the terrorist organization is important for the future
of Turkey, for the future of Iraq and for the future of the region as
a whole.
SIEGEL: Do you think that the United States has the authority to get
those PKK camps out of northern Iraq?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) Not having the authority is
not an issue. Currently, the United States has a clear mission
against terrorist organizations. If terrorist organizations are
operating in the region while the United States is standing firm
against other terror groups, then why not the PKK, which has been
designated a terrorist organization by the United States?
SIEGEL: But what should the United States do? Should it ask the
people in Baghdad to get the camps out of northern Iraq? Should it
ask the Kurds in Iraq to get the camps out? Should it send troops in
and attack the camps in northern Iraq? What do you want the US to do?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) We will discuss these issues
with President Bush tomorrow.
SIEGEL: And what will you be saying?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) I believe that the United
States and the coalition forces are in the best position to decide
what to do more so than us.
SIEGEL: If the Americans whom you meet with in Washington suggest to
you that Turkey cool off its relations with Iran and Syria, would you
consider doing that?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) Look, these issues need to
be reviewed strategically. And, of course, we discuss these issues
with our strategic partner. Let's not forget that in our relations
with our neighbors, we foster democracy, freedom, the rule of law and
human rights. We want to have warm relations with our neighbors in
this framework. The only way to address these issues is by
discussions.
SIEGEL: So you're saying engagement with Iran, for example, talking
with Iran, is a way of assisting the growth of democracy in Iran?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) It's hard to say what will
transpire in 10, 20 years. At the time of the revolution, they
weren't holding elections as they do now. Now there are women in
parliament, Armenians in parliament, there are Shia, Sunnis, various
groups in parliament. This couldn't have happened had there not been
elections. Now is this ideal? Of course not.
SIEGEL: Do the Americans you talk to agree with your appraisal of the
situation in Iran?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) Some do, some don't. Not
everybody has to agree, just as I don't have to agree with everyone
else.
SIEGEL: I want to ask you about something that happened to you
earlier in your life. You were put in prison. You were tried and
convicted, I gather, for reading a poem aloud, for reading an
Islamist poem aloud. If someone did that today in Turkey, could they
still be arrested and put in jail for doing it?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) First of all, the poem I
read was not an Islamist poem. The poet, in fact, was an ideologue of
Ataturk. The conviction was passed because it was me who recited the
poem. And since we came to power in Turkey, no one has been jailed
for expressing their thoughts, ideas or for reciting a poem.
SIEGEL: I guess I should broaden my question. Can one then read any
poem in Turkey aloud without fear that one might be arrested or
jailed?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) I think that they could, but
I'm not the judiciary. As you know, we have the principle of
separation of powers in Turkey as you do here. But I could not agree
to someone being convicted for this. A person could recite any poem
he chooses. It would not be appropriate to arrest someone as long as
the poem isn't insulting or disrespectful to beliefs. Especially now
with the constitutional amendments we have carried out and the
democratic reforms we have undertaken, this is no longer possible.
SIEGEL: Do you regard the votes in France and in the Netherlands
about the European Constitution in effect a message to Ankara saying,
`Western Europe does not want Turkey in the European Union'?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) It's not possible for me to
say yes to this question. This vote had nothing to do with Turkey.
The referendum was on the European Union's constitution.
SIEGEL: But Turkey was part of the backdrop. Turkey is one of the
issues surrounding Europe.
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) They're using Turkey for
political ends; this hasn't worked. In France, they looked at the
reasons behind the no votes, and the first reason is unemployment and
then there are the economic parameters. Turkey is not amongst the
reasons. Turkey is focused on October the 3rd. There is no question
about Turkey's prospects for EU membership.
SIEGEL: You say that you will become a member of the EU.
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) We're continuing on our path
in a very determined manner.
SIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, thank you very much for talking with us.
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: Thank you very much.
SIEGEL: Recep Tayyip Erdogan is the prime minister of Turkey.
SHOW: All Things Considered 8:00 AM EST NPR
June 8, 2005 Wednesday
Recap Tayyip Erdogan discusses terrorism, relations with the US and
membership in the European Union
MELISSA BLOCK, ROBERT SIEGEL
MELISSA BLOCK, host:
This is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. I'm Melissa Block.
ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
And I'm Robert Siegel.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey met today with
President Bush. He is an interesting politician on the far end of an
interesting bilateral relationship. Erdogan used to advocate Islamist
politics in secular Turkey. He served a jail term for that.
Washington and Ankara are strategic partners despite complaints of
anti-US sentiment among the Turks. Relations were strained by
Turkey's refusal in 2003 to provide a staging ground for US forces to
enter Iraq. The US backs Turkish entry into the European Union. Talks
are set for October 3rd on that. Also, Turkey faces a domestic
insurgency by the PKK, a movement of Turkish Kurds. America's most
fervent supporters in Iraq are the Iraqi Kurds. And Prime Minister
Erdogan told me yesterday that the PKK is using Iraqi soil as a
staging ground for attacks to the north in Turkey.
Prime Minister RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (Turkey): (Through Translator)
There are at the moment camps of the PKK terrorist organization in
northern Iraq. As you know, the Iranian terrorist organization the
People's Mujahideen used to operate in this region. After the United
States' intervention, the People's Mujahideen was dispersed. We are
sharing intelligence with the United States on this matter. The
elimination of the terrorist organization is important for the future
of Turkey, for the future of Iraq and for the future of the region as
a whole.
SIEGEL: Do you think that the United States has the authority to get
those PKK camps out of northern Iraq?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) Not having the authority is
not an issue. Currently, the United States has a clear mission
against terrorist organizations. If terrorist organizations are
operating in the region while the United States is standing firm
against other terror groups, then why not the PKK, which has been
designated a terrorist organization by the United States?
SIEGEL: But what should the United States do? Should it ask the
people in Baghdad to get the camps out of northern Iraq? Should it
ask the Kurds in Iraq to get the camps out? Should it send troops in
and attack the camps in northern Iraq? What do you want the US to do?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) We will discuss these issues
with President Bush tomorrow.
SIEGEL: And what will you be saying?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) I believe that the United
States and the coalition forces are in the best position to decide
what to do more so than us.
SIEGEL: If the Americans whom you meet with in Washington suggest to
you that Turkey cool off its relations with Iran and Syria, would you
consider doing that?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) Look, these issues need to
be reviewed strategically. And, of course, we discuss these issues
with our strategic partner. Let's not forget that in our relations
with our neighbors, we foster democracy, freedom, the rule of law and
human rights. We want to have warm relations with our neighbors in
this framework. The only way to address these issues is by
discussions.
SIEGEL: So you're saying engagement with Iran, for example, talking
with Iran, is a way of assisting the growth of democracy in Iran?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) It's hard to say what will
transpire in 10, 20 years. At the time of the revolution, they
weren't holding elections as they do now. Now there are women in
parliament, Armenians in parliament, there are Shia, Sunnis, various
groups in parliament. This couldn't have happened had there not been
elections. Now is this ideal? Of course not.
SIEGEL: Do the Americans you talk to agree with your appraisal of the
situation in Iran?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) Some do, some don't. Not
everybody has to agree, just as I don't have to agree with everyone
else.
SIEGEL: I want to ask you about something that happened to you
earlier in your life. You were put in prison. You were tried and
convicted, I gather, for reading a poem aloud, for reading an
Islamist poem aloud. If someone did that today in Turkey, could they
still be arrested and put in jail for doing it?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) First of all, the poem I
read was not an Islamist poem. The poet, in fact, was an ideologue of
Ataturk. The conviction was passed because it was me who recited the
poem. And since we came to power in Turkey, no one has been jailed
for expressing their thoughts, ideas or for reciting a poem.
SIEGEL: I guess I should broaden my question. Can one then read any
poem in Turkey aloud without fear that one might be arrested or
jailed?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) I think that they could, but
I'm not the judiciary. As you know, we have the principle of
separation of powers in Turkey as you do here. But I could not agree
to someone being convicted for this. A person could recite any poem
he chooses. It would not be appropriate to arrest someone as long as
the poem isn't insulting or disrespectful to beliefs. Especially now
with the constitutional amendments we have carried out and the
democratic reforms we have undertaken, this is no longer possible.
SIEGEL: Do you regard the votes in France and in the Netherlands
about the European Constitution in effect a message to Ankara saying,
`Western Europe does not want Turkey in the European Union'?
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) It's not possible for me to
say yes to this question. This vote had nothing to do with Turkey.
The referendum was on the European Union's constitution.
SIEGEL: But Turkey was part of the backdrop. Turkey is one of the
issues surrounding Europe.
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) They're using Turkey for
political ends; this hasn't worked. In France, they looked at the
reasons behind the no votes, and the first reason is unemployment and
then there are the economic parameters. Turkey is not amongst the
reasons. Turkey is focused on October the 3rd. There is no question
about Turkey's prospects for EU membership.
SIEGEL: You say that you will become a member of the EU.
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: (Through Translator) We're continuing on our path
in a very determined manner.
SIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, thank you very much for talking with us.
Prime Min. ERDOGAN: Thank you very much.
SIEGEL: Recep Tayyip Erdogan is the prime minister of Turkey.