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Georgian president addresses nation ahead of Bush visit - fuller version
Georgian State Television Channel 1, Tbilisi
3 May 05
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili has called George Bush's
approaching visit on 9-10 May "confirmation that Georgia is a regional
leader in spreading democracy and freedom". In an address to students
broadcast live by several Georgian television channels, he said that
the Rose Revolution had inspired others and given Georgia a "special
mission". Saakashvili also discussed his ideas of freedom and democracy
and said that the Georgian media had been freed from pressure. During
his speech he said that Georgia was planning to host a conference on
resolving the South Ossetian conflict in June. Answering questions
from students, he said that he hoped to sign an agreement on Russian
bases with President Putin in the next few days. The following in an
excerpt from the broadcast carried on Georgian TV on 3 May;
[Saakashvili] I would like to thank everyone for coming. It is very
unusual to see a red carpet in this room and I don't like the fact
that it has been laid here. I will be sitting here for only two hours
or maybe one and a half so I do not need a red carpet. This kind of
formality is not necessary for a meeting with the president, nor is
all the fuss leading up to it, which would make you think that this
was going to be a speech from someone who only makes one address
every year. I had a conversation with students a little while ago
and I speak to people every day.
I walked around Lentekhi [northwestern Georgia] recently, before that I
have been visiting various places every day. Yesterday, for example, I
played football with children in Vazisubani [a district of Tbilisi]. We
do not need this kind of formality. The president of today's Georgia
does not need a red carpet or pomp. From this red carpet you would
think that preparations were being made for a major summit.
For me it is a great gift to have this meeting with you. The last
time I was in this room was after my inauguration with US Secretary
of State Colin Powell. Colin Powell mentioned at the time that we
had both been to the same university, George Washington University in
Washington. He said that he had had only top marks. I replied that I
had slightly lower marks, but look how things have turned out. You are
still a foreign minister, I said, but I am already president. I am not
telling you this so that you neglect your studies, because of course if
you study badly you will not be guaranteed a good professional career.
I am delighted to see such bright faces, despite this catastrophic
weather, which has decided to play with our nerves. A few days ago
I said that whatever the weather we should not be frightened. After
that someone in the weather office decided that there should be bad
weather to see how much we could take. I will stress once again,
it can rain as much as it wants, but - [changes tack]. Yesterday it
was raining when I was opening a football pitch. I played football
and celebrated Easter and everything was fine.
Georgia "regional leader in spreading democracy"
You know that this is a very important stage in the life of our
country, the last two years or year and a half. The important event
ahead is President Bush's visit to Georgia [9-10 May]. This is a truly
important event. I simply want to explain why this is important for us.
It is not because it will solve every problem at a stroke. It is
important because the leader of the largest democratic country is
coming to Georgia and the format of the visit is extremely rare
for any American president. This is confirmation that Georgia is a
regional leader in spreading democracy and freedom.
Georgia's role is much greater than many would imagine. Georgia is
not only an example for revolution, in which there was practically
no violence, apart from one broken window in parliament - I don't
know when it was smashed but I'll admit it was. But those were just
a few beautiful days and weeks. The most important thing is what has
happened afterwards in the past year and a half. We have shown that
with democracy and freedom it is possible to be successful.
The thing that kleptomaniac and corrupt rulers feared the most in this
region was that someone might show it was possible to be successful
with democracy and freedom. I remember very well what they were saying
after our revolution. Georgia will break up into four or five parts,
they said. A completely inexperienced group of people has come to
power and they will fail. There will be much greater corruption, they
will not achieve anything and the country will eventually disintegrate
and will become a completely unstable zone in an unstable region.
Of course, we are participating in very historic process. We should
understand that now there will be a new Georgian state, in terms
of its institutions, its mentality, its ability and its special
traditions. We are a nation that is several millennia old but to what
extent can we say we have had a tradition of statehood? Georgia has
never had successful experience of modern statehood. It was an almost
hopeless situation.
What has happened in these most recent years? We have managed to create
a state. Of course it is not a very rich or especially comfortable
state, but it is already a state. Our budget in [former President
Eduard] Shevardnadze's final years was 350m dollars. This year our
budget will be almost 1.9bn dollars. Those who can do the sums can
work out how much it has grown.
What does this increased budget mean? It means that roads are being
built, there are renovations not just in Tbilisi but throughout the
country, there are buses in towns throughout Georgia, a new police
force, a new ambulance service and the most important functions of
the state. The state should be able to have a police force and provide
aid for those in need.
During these [recent] floods everyone saw that the Georgian state
already exists. Not a single family remains in the flood and disaster
zone which has not received state aid. Everyone recognizes this.
Today there is not a single family [left without help] and I saw this
with my own eyes. I walked to see myself, the prime minister walked,
ministers walked 40, 45, or 67 km [presumably distances given by
various ministers]. Our MPs and ministers walked that far. Every
family was provided with aid. This is already a state.
Georgia's revolution as an example to others
On the first anniversary of our revolution, there was a repeat in
Ukraine. For the whole year they were saying it could not be repeated
in Ukraine, look what a poor state Georgia is in; but the Ukrainians
saw that we had been successful. It was one of the most important
stimuli for what happened. The same thing happened in Kyrgyzstan and
many other places in the world, not just the former Soviet Union. It
also applies, for example, to the countries of the Middle East,
whose representatives I met and who told me that what happened in
Georgia made a great impression on them.
The American president is coming to a country which America
recognizes as an example of democracy and freedom for the region
and the world. That is Georgia's special role and mission. This is
a special role and a special mission for each of you.
We are proud that there is freedom in Georgia. This is not simply
a notion. I was a student at Kiev University in 1985, my first
year. In my first year the KGB opened a file on me because I read
foreign journals and because I expressed independent opinions. As
a result everything was closed to me. Under that regime I would not
have been able to travel abroad, although that was my profession - I
studied diplomacy. I would never have been able to find normal work,
I would never have been able to make progress in any area or find
a job I wanted. I am not talking about politics. I would never have
been able to stand before you in this room like this.
Out of my family, in which I was brought up, my grandfather spent 10
years in a Siberian camp, his brother was sentenced to 25 years. My
grandmother's mother, who died last year, had a brother who was
executed and a father who was almost worn to death in Siberian camps.
Therefore, for me and for you freedom is not simply that we hate
the past in which all opportunities were closed to us and in which
there was a closed society. The mark of a closed society is when
someone decides in a corridor somewhere that you should not achieve
anything, that you are done with, a line is drawn under you and you
will never be able to go forward. This does not mean I am a supporter
of democracy just because of that. Democracy is - [changes tack]. I
have seen many people who were oppressed by the Soviet regime and as
soon as the opportunity appeared, they themselves became oppressors
and wanted to oppress someone.
The important thing is that if someone believes in their own power,
in their own talent, if they think they are stronger than others
and can go forward, then they should compete in a free competition,
participate in open debates and exchange opinions freely.
That is important in a free and open society. Why is corruption a
disaster? It is not just because when someone takes a bribe the money
does not go into the state coffers. Corruption is a problem because
it means that three or four groups agree everything among themselves.
Why was our budget only 350m? It was in effect 1.9bn, but the rest of
the money was divided between these three or four groups. No matter
how talented you were, it was their children who went to the best
schools, their children who studied overseas, their children who got
the best jobs and for the rest, you could be a genius - all of you are
very talented, I am well aware of that - but would have no chance or
possibility of success. Therefore open society is a society in which
there are free debates.
Georgian media "freed"
Today is a day for the press. I would like to greet all members
of the press. We have freed the Georgian press from paying taxes,
although that is not the most important thing. We have freed them
from any kind of pressure. A while ago, it makes me laugh, five
intellectuals sat talking for one and a half hours on one channel
and I watched with great curiosity in my office. I turned it on one
evening by chance and was very interested. For an hour and a half
they were complaining that they were not allowed to express their
opinions on television. But it was on television they were saying
that. You get the picture, don't you? How many times have you seen
them complaining on the most popular shows, saying that they are not
allowed to appear on television? They also complain to foreigners. A
foreigner who does not watch our television stations believes them
but you hear this from our television.
People wrote me a letter asking why I express my views so precisely,
saying that it is not good. I want to say categorically that Georgia's
president is not the Queen of Great Britain. The president is elected
to express his opinions and put them into practice. The most important
thing is that the president expresses his opinions. You should be
scared of a president who does not express his opinions or whose
views continually change. That is the kind of predecessor I had,
who in general has no views.
Of course, I am the leader of a political party, I have opinions,
I have my own clear ideas of how Georgia should develop. I am the
leader of a political force which has also expressed its opinions.
Sometimes I attack my opponents, not sometimes but often. However,
the most important thing is not that you attack someone but that they
should have the opportunity to respond, that they can express their
own views.
It is not important that I should not express my opinions. There are
many leaders in the world who do not express their opinions but at
the same time smother with both hands their opponents, who cannot
express their opinions; so the country is a swamp.
I believe deeply that the more free debate there is, the higher
the temperature of political debate, the better its quality, the
more opinions and people involved - [changes tack]. You should take
part in these debates. The previous government said they would not
let students be politicized. What could be more idiotic? Of course
students should be interested in politics because it is their future.
They should be more involved in their country's future than older
people because their fate depends on it. The main thing is that as
a result of the debate we should reach the truth.
This does not mean that we do not have the possibility of a general
consensus where there is a common national interest, general human
values, and what unites us and humanity at large. In a normal society,
if it is to be successful, they need to agree.
As for politicians' evaluation of events and specific people's views,
this is a personal choice, whether it regards the president or any
other political leader. We do not have Dalai Lamas in our politics.
No-one can be above criticism, no-one can be without mistakes. The
more people are correctly criticized, the fewer the mistakes.
I, as a leader, recognize that I do many things to scrutinize my staff
from the top. You should not doubt that I want these members of staff
to be honest and to behave correctly. We have truly tackled corruption
in the past year and a half; however, if there is no other control
mechanism, if there is no press scrutiny, if local administration
heads, governors, police chiefs and MPs are not constantly under
scrutiny, society will not be able to go forward and this control
mechanism will not exist.
That is the meaning of freedom. That is the difference between a
stagnant country and a country which moves forward and develops.
Therefore, Georgia is the best example in the former Soviet Union. In
which other country are there seven independent national television
channels and 25 or 26 independent regional channels?
If you take all the rest of the former Soviet Union, the number of
independent channels is less than in little Georgia. This makes
it difficult for us to operate but this is right for society to
be able to develop. That is the first thing. The second aspect is
responsibility. Responsibility for our country and its future.
"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for
your country"
Sometimes you might think that Georgia was like a car that had been
broken down for a long time, completely stuck in a swamp, the engine
wouldn't start and the petrol had been stolen. Now a new driver
has come and put petrol in it, fixed the engine, made some effort,
started the engine and begun to drive out of the swamp. But now some of
the passengers are complaining, what are you waiting for, why are we
moving so slowly? What would a normal passenger do? He would get out
and push. If everyone got out and pushed the weight would be less and
the car would move forward. I am not saying I want to be the driver -
[changes tack] I am ready to lie down in front of the car so it can
get out of the swamp. But everyone should help to get our country
out of the swamp. We are already on our way.
We are talking about President Bush's visit, but at our Easter meeting
the Patriarch [Ilia II] quoted President Kennedy, who said ask not what
your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. Ilia
Chavchavadze [Georgian 19th century writer and thinker] said the same
thing much earlier, but in a different way. You are a man if you ask
yourself every day whom you have served. Ilia Chavchavadze said it that
way because he was talking about society and Georgia was not a state
at that time. We should say this every day and note its importance.
All of us have a very important mission. To finish what we have
started in conditions of freedom and democracy. In this region
there is a chance for success, the region can develop and be no less
European than any Western or well-developed Eastern European country.
That is our joint task.
Separatist conflicts, plans for peace conference
However, we also face many obstacles and challenges, for example the
issue of [separatist] conflicts. Abkhazia is our deepest common pain,
because a grave injustice was committed there; most of the people
were driven out, the most decent and peaceful people were driven out.
As regards the Tskhinvali region [South Ossetia], we have unveiled
our peace plan. A few days ago, we offered our help to the Tskhinvali
authorities to deal with the consequences of the floods. We were
ready to give them everything, including money, fuel and equipment.
But they refused to accept anything. So, I want to tell those who are
now watching us in Java or Tskhinvali: we were ready to come and help
you, but the group that has appropriated the region denied this to
you. They deprived you of this. We are still ready to help you. They
have been scaring you that you will have problems with passports, but
I am ready to open a Georgian passport office in Tskhinvali tomorrow
and grant Georgian citizenship to every applicant tomorrow. If it
cannot be done in Tskhinvali, I'm inviting everyone to Gori. I'm
instructing the Gori passport office to issue Georgian passports to
every resident of the Tskhinvali, Java, Znauri and other districts
as soon as they request it.
We are ready to organize a large conference in Tbilisi this June
to discuss every aspect of our peace plan on the settlement of
the Tskhinvali region - South Ossetia conflict. We will invite
all organizations working on conflict settlement and peace issues.
Georgia is very open in this respect but we need everyone else to be
open too. We are ready to go further than probably any other country
in the region, because we are not afraid. We are not talking from a
weak position. Some time ago, we disbanded the [Dzevera] reservists
camp and redeployed it dozens of kilometres away from the conflict
zone, so that no-one could say that we were getting ready for
something. Moreover, we have reduced tenfold the number of Georgian
peacekeepers in the conflict zone. I have done this deliberately
because I'm not afraid. I believe that the Georgian state is strong
enough to protect its citizens even in these conditions and I do not
want to give our enemies an excuse to complain.
However, this cannot be a one-way street. We urge all forces with
at least a bit of common sense to agree to a dialogue with us. It
is unacceptable to keep a 22-year-old boy in a dungeon on so-called
treason charges only because he arranged holidays for 500 [Ossetian]
children in Chakvi, Kobuleti and other resorts in Ajaria. I'm talking
about [Aleksandr] Kozayev who is imprisoned in Tskhinvali. A state
cannot regard itself as a self-respecting state if such things can
happen on its territory.
Economic reforms, ethnic minorities
We have very ambitious plans regarding our economic reforms. We are
starting a large-scale anti-bureaucratic reform. This doesn't mean
that we are going to mistreat competent officials, but we will reduce
the functions of the state drastically. All kinds of permits and 95
per cent of licenses should be abolished. If you decide to set up a
business, you should not have to go to some agricultural office and
beg them to give you permission to squeeze grapes and bottle the juice.
[Passage omitted: says that Georgia should have "small bureaucracy
with high salaries", cites examples of unjustified licensing rules;
says that his government "has acquired many enemies" after public
sector job cuts]
We as a society should understand that the country's progress is
impossible without these reforms. Significant development will
be impossible without these reforms because Georgia is very, very
underdeveloped. During the past 15 years, not even a single kilometre
of a good standard road has been built. We have started a road building
programme. We will only need two years to do the fundamental part of
this. We will need to spend a minimum of 200m dollars to rebuild roads
in Tbilisi. This year, we will spend about 50-60m dollars on that,
and maybe slightly more next year.
As for the regions, we have started building a big road in Samegrelo.
Roads in Akhaltsikhe and Ninotsminda are in ruins. Just imagine what
is happening there: no-one remembers the Georgian state, because
there is no road and Georgian TV is not available. However, despite
this, our fellow Armenian citizens [living there] eagerly teach their
children to speak Georgian. [Passage omitted: talks about his recent
trip to Ninotsminda]
We should take care of these people. They are citizens of
Georgia. We should work on the integration of ethnic minorities. We
are establishing a school of [public] administration for them that
will offer six-month and nine-month study programmes for Azerbaijanis,
Armenians, Ossetians, Greeks, Jews and whoever else is not integrated,
and also Russians who do not speak Georgian. We should teach them
Georgian and let them see that there are highly paid positions for them
too in the reduced, but not corrupt, Georgian state apparatus. They
will not be able to occupy these positions just by chance. But when
we have 100 new Armenian officials this year, 100 Azerbaijanis, 100
Ossetians, and 100 officials of other nationalities, the picture will
change completely. Others will realize that this country is theirs
too and that they have a good chance of taking part in the future of
this country.
This is another unique model for the entire region, the region
which has been devastated by ethnic conflicts, the Balkans of the
former Soviet Union. Therefore we, as a democratic country, should
demonstrate that democracy gives a chance to everyone regardless of
their ethnic background or property status.
Bush visit not like Brezhnev's
We have embarked on a very important stage of reforms, and President
Bush's visit is intended to support these reforms. Now, some people,
especially in the Russian press, and some Georgians have joined them
too, have been comparing President Bush's visit to visits by former
[Communist Party] general secretaries [in Soviet times]. I remember
those times. Once, [Leonid] Brezhnev was coming to Georgia and I
was forced to take part in marching rehearsals for four weeks. It
was in 1981, Brezhnev was no longer on top form, and they said that
the size of the ceremony had to be reduced by three times. Instead
of four hours, it would continue for only an hour and a half. So
they told tall boys to stay and they let the smaller ones go. Well,
I was the tallest guy in my class, but I pretended to be smaller and
they let me go. So I was not there to see Brezhnev.
Those who make these comparisons do not understand that at that time
Georgia was an enslaved country and the general secretaries were our
main slave masters who would come to the enslaved territories in order
to strengthen the slavery. But President Bush, the American president,
is the leader of the free world and is coming to a free country which
has liberated itself, especially now, in order to support freedom,
democracy and the future of this country as an independent and free
country. Those who do not see the difference remain trapped in the
time of the Soviet Union and red carpets. This is not a matter of age,
I know some young people who also fail to see this difference.
This is the difference between Georgia of that period and the present
Georgia. At that time, Georgians did not serve in the army or, if they
did, they were warehousemen or cooks [in the Soviet Army], although
I served in combat units for two years. Now, serving in the Georgian
army is a completely different thing. Now people are proud to serve
in the army. [Passage omitted: praises the morale of Georgian troops
during recent artillery exercises]
Since I have touched on the issue of army, I want to tell you that
I am personally very proud that our soldiers are in Iraq. I am proud
that our soldiers are in Kosovo, because this is an integral part of
our democratic, international role. [Looks at his watch] I was told
not to talk for more than 15 minutes, but I've been talking for too
long. So, now I will be listening to you. [Applause]
[Moderator] Mr President, taking into account our situation, students
still have many questions to ask you, despite your comprehensive
comments. [Passage omitted]
Expectations from Bush visit
[Question] Mr President, let me congratulate you on the Easter
holiday. [Passage omitted] Undoubtedly, President Bush's visit is
very important for Georgia. What results do you expect from this
visit? [Passage omitted]
[Saakashvili] First of all, I want to tell you that when we talk about
President Bush's visit it is only part of a broader picture. We should
not have the illusion that Bush will come and then everything will then
be fine. It will not be like that. We have to accomplish everything
ourselves. We should not wait for anything. [Passage omitted: describes
how neighbours are helping each other in flood hit Svaneti]
We are not expecting America to come and solve our problems for us,
but this visit underlines that Georgia has international importance as
never before in its history. This visit is not just a show of support
for Georgian democracy. It is a visit which supports democracy in the
region. We need democracy in this region like we need air. Without
Ukraine, Georgia would be in a very difficult situation today. Some of
you were in Ukraine. I will never forget the feeling of pride when I
was standing before a million people on 31 December [in Kiev]. Before
that date, I was so eager to go there that it was very difficult
to convince me that presidents don't behave like that. Eventually
I was persuaded not to go [before 31 December], but when [Viktor]
Yushchenko was practically president already, although almost no-one
had recognized it apart from us, I went there on 31 December, and
the feeling of pride was amazing.
However, many of you were there before that, young Georgian students
with their eyes lit up, standing together with Ukrainians. By the way,
I've heard that some of them started international [Georgian-Ukrainian]
families, so there was a pleasant side to it too, but the risk was
much greater. Those people were our representatives. Without Ukraine,
Georgia would be more isolated and under much greater pressure. Then
there is Moldova. Under Georgia's chairmanship of GUUAM, it turned from
being a virtually defunct organization into an organization with which
Romania, Lithuania and Poland are actively cooperating, not to mention
Ukraine and Moldova. The Moldovan president said at his inauguration
that Moldovan democracy was inspired by Georgian democracy.
"Freedom will triumph in Belarus"
I am certain that freedom will triumph in Belarus. I am certain of
that. It will win everywhere. In Kyrgyzstan, [MP] Givi Targamadze
was there [during the revolution], I don't think it is a big secret,
he was there together with some other fighters for democracy. He was
certainly not leading anything, as some people claimed, but when the
first rallies were broken up, Givi got on a horse and crossed the
border. Actually, he says he was on a horse but others say it was a
donkey, although it is not important. He crossed over into Uzbekistan
through minefields, the situation was difficult there.
When we talk about what democracy means, this is a chance for
Georgia to solve its problems, problems with our neighbours, problems
associated with our conflicts. I am sure that in the end the public
should make their views known. Those people in Tskhinvali who were
denied the right to get help from the Georgian state, their state,
whose language they speak, whose capital they visit every other day,
who marry other citizens of that state. They have been denied the
right to get aid and food from this state in the situation when the
Transcaucasian highway is closed and they cannot get help from anywhere
else. They have not received pensions and salaries for several months
but they are deprived of this help. When these people are allowed
to express their views, when Alik Kozayev is released from prison,
I'm sure that nothing will stand in the way of a peaceful settlement
of this conflict.
"Red line" of the Caucasus should not be crossed
This is our meaning for democracy, the meaning of Bush's visit to
Georgia. The American president's visit is the final confirmation
that Georgia is an independent country whose borders and territory
are inviolable. The red line lies on the Caucasus Range and no-one
should cross it to this side. Everything that is temporarily on this
side should go back.
I am one of the few presidents in the world who will have the
opportunity, within the space of three or four days - although this
is not finally decided but I have hope - to sign joint declarations
with the presidents of Russia and America. The contents of these
declarations are different but they complement each other. We have
had Russian troops in Georgia for 200 years. There is no point in
this for Russia, and for Georgia it is a risk.
We now have an historic chance for the step-by-step, civilized [changes
tack] - there are other ways, for example Syria withdrew a contingent
three of four times larger in two weeks and without problems. We are
prepared to talk about two years or even three years, but I intend
to resolve this issue during my term of office as stipulated by
the constitution and I'm not going to make any concessions in this
regard. Peacefully, in a civilized manner, we should change the form
of our relations. It is unacceptable to talk to us while using troops,
tanks and weapons. Let us talk about investments. There are many other
issues too. Georgia's economy needs improvement and I think that Bush's
visit is a very important sign for our integration into Euro-Atlantic
bodies. This is important support for Georgia's independence and a
very important stimulus to democracy in the entire region, democracy
which we all need like air.
[Passage omitted: Answering the next few questions, Saakashvili says
that he categorically opposes "nationalization of private companies",
urges students to sue corrupt officials themselves, talks about student
exchange programmes with foreign countries, the government's efforts
to build new energy facilities, the lack of qualified engineers in
Georgia, the anniversary of the overthrow of Ajarian leader Aslan
Abashidze, the importance of economic development in provinces, and
"a new air of optimism" in Georgia]
Abkhaz welcome to visit Georgia
[Question] Nino Lomouri, Tbilisi State University. A few years ago
some students of Tbilisi State University travelled to Abkhazia
with the help of the UN. They travelled through Abkhazia to Sochi to
meet students of Sukhumi University. During three days of meetings
the Georgian and Abkhaz students got to know each other. They are
still in touch. Later, there were promises from [former President]
Shevardnadze that the authorities would provide assistance to them
to organize other meetings, but those promises were not kept. We need
help from the authorities to [interrupted by the president]
[Saakashvili] Generally, of course we need help to return to Abkhazia,
but that is another kind of help. As for inviting the Abkhaz here,
you know that last year we invited Abkhaz children [to Tbilisi]. We
financed their trip. The children spent two weeks here, we planted
trees in a park together. But when they went back, their parents
were detained in Sukhumi and some of the children were detained
too. [Georgian government's spokeswoman] Leila Avidzba is Abkhaz, she
is from Sukhumi, she studied in Tbilisi and now she is a news presenter
for Georgian [State] TV and she also works in the government. Her
mother has been given a suspended sentence because Leila works here,
although she is Abkhaz and she has never betrayed the Abkhaz people.
If you want to invite someone, bring them here, we fully support
these contacts. We should destroy this siege mentality. What is their
mentality now? In the past, [late chairman of the Tbilisi-backed
Abkhaz government in exile, Tamaz] Nadareishvili's figure was used to
frighten those 35,000 remaining Abkhaz who live there, unfortunately
others have left. Now they have created another bogeyman, [Defence
Minister Irakli] Okruashvili. Okruashvili will come and eat your
children, they say. But nobody is going to carry out any kind of
aggressive action anywhere. We should understand that we must destroy
this wall of mistrust. This will only happen through contacts between
people. Every person should know that this is their country that will
take their interests into account. We are not going to take by force
something which can be resolved through human contacts in a democratic
way. This is a very principled position of the Georgian state. Today
we need economic development, energy facilities, roads and tourism
rather than a war and chaos. Everyone should understand this. At the
same time, we need a strong state. The way to Abkhazia lies through
a strong state. Help us to convince those several dozen thousands of
our compatriots who live on the territory where many more Abkhaz and
more than 300,000 Georgians lived in the past.
[Question] We have a proposal, the Abkhaz agree too, but we need
financing.
[Saakashvili] Submit your proposal to me.
[Moderator] The last question, Mr President.
Russian timeframe for base withdrawal "realistic"
[Question] Mariam Bochorishvili, Tbilisi State University. Mr
President, do you know if President Bush and President Putin are going
to discuss the pullout of the Russian bases from Georgia? Will they
sign a document guaranteeing the pullout?
[Saakashvili] An agreement on this should be signed by me and President
Putin. We have been exchanging documents. Last year, when we first
met the Russians, they told us that they needed 13-15 years [to pull
out the bases]. By that time, you would be of the same age as I am
now. I see [presidential spokesman] Gela [Charkviani] is looking at
me, [smiles] I guess it is inappropriate to talk about age in his
presence. Now their [Russian] Defence Ministry said that they would
need three to four years and their Foreign Ministry said two to three
years. That's what I call a realistic approach. We are not going to
throw Russians into the sea, as some people are claiming, but neither
are we going to let 200 years [of Russian military presence in Georgia]
grow into 300 years.
Since we are going to resolve this issue during my presidency, we also
need help from the public. They should know this. We have managed
to achieve this progress because Georgia has become a successful
country. We have become a state. State institutions and democracy are
functioning here. Even during debates nothing has been destroyed. I
remember that last year some people predicted after some arguments in
parliament that Saakashvili was doomed to failure. On the contrary,
the more debates we have the better. I am certain that we will win
all these debates. In the end, people should decide this issue rather
than some particular groups or foreign forces. We should reach this
agreement, this is a matter of principle for me. Our position will
be very principled to the end. By the way, this is being decided
right now. Today is 3 May, and we should reach an agreement by 8
May. [Passage omitted: wraps up the meeting]
Georgian State Television Channel 1, Tbilisi
3 May 05
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili has called George Bush's
approaching visit on 9-10 May "confirmation that Georgia is a regional
leader in spreading democracy and freedom". In an address to students
broadcast live by several Georgian television channels, he said that
the Rose Revolution had inspired others and given Georgia a "special
mission". Saakashvili also discussed his ideas of freedom and democracy
and said that the Georgian media had been freed from pressure. During
his speech he said that Georgia was planning to host a conference on
resolving the South Ossetian conflict in June. Answering questions
from students, he said that he hoped to sign an agreement on Russian
bases with President Putin in the next few days. The following in an
excerpt from the broadcast carried on Georgian TV on 3 May;
[Saakashvili] I would like to thank everyone for coming. It is very
unusual to see a red carpet in this room and I don't like the fact
that it has been laid here. I will be sitting here for only two hours
or maybe one and a half so I do not need a red carpet. This kind of
formality is not necessary for a meeting with the president, nor is
all the fuss leading up to it, which would make you think that this
was going to be a speech from someone who only makes one address
every year. I had a conversation with students a little while ago
and I speak to people every day.
I walked around Lentekhi [northwestern Georgia] recently, before that I
have been visiting various places every day. Yesterday, for example, I
played football with children in Vazisubani [a district of Tbilisi]. We
do not need this kind of formality. The president of today's Georgia
does not need a red carpet or pomp. From this red carpet you would
think that preparations were being made for a major summit.
For me it is a great gift to have this meeting with you. The last
time I was in this room was after my inauguration with US Secretary
of State Colin Powell. Colin Powell mentioned at the time that we
had both been to the same university, George Washington University in
Washington. He said that he had had only top marks. I replied that I
had slightly lower marks, but look how things have turned out. You are
still a foreign minister, I said, but I am already president. I am not
telling you this so that you neglect your studies, because of course if
you study badly you will not be guaranteed a good professional career.
I am delighted to see such bright faces, despite this catastrophic
weather, which has decided to play with our nerves. A few days ago
I said that whatever the weather we should not be frightened. After
that someone in the weather office decided that there should be bad
weather to see how much we could take. I will stress once again,
it can rain as much as it wants, but - [changes tack]. Yesterday it
was raining when I was opening a football pitch. I played football
and celebrated Easter and everything was fine.
Georgia "regional leader in spreading democracy"
You know that this is a very important stage in the life of our
country, the last two years or year and a half. The important event
ahead is President Bush's visit to Georgia [9-10 May]. This is a truly
important event. I simply want to explain why this is important for us.
It is not because it will solve every problem at a stroke. It is
important because the leader of the largest democratic country is
coming to Georgia and the format of the visit is extremely rare
for any American president. This is confirmation that Georgia is a
regional leader in spreading democracy and freedom.
Georgia's role is much greater than many would imagine. Georgia is
not only an example for revolution, in which there was practically
no violence, apart from one broken window in parliament - I don't
know when it was smashed but I'll admit it was. But those were just
a few beautiful days and weeks. The most important thing is what has
happened afterwards in the past year and a half. We have shown that
with democracy and freedom it is possible to be successful.
The thing that kleptomaniac and corrupt rulers feared the most in this
region was that someone might show it was possible to be successful
with democracy and freedom. I remember very well what they were saying
after our revolution. Georgia will break up into four or five parts,
they said. A completely inexperienced group of people has come to
power and they will fail. There will be much greater corruption, they
will not achieve anything and the country will eventually disintegrate
and will become a completely unstable zone in an unstable region.
Of course, we are participating in very historic process. We should
understand that now there will be a new Georgian state, in terms
of its institutions, its mentality, its ability and its special
traditions. We are a nation that is several millennia old but to what
extent can we say we have had a tradition of statehood? Georgia has
never had successful experience of modern statehood. It was an almost
hopeless situation.
What has happened in these most recent years? We have managed to create
a state. Of course it is not a very rich or especially comfortable
state, but it is already a state. Our budget in [former President
Eduard] Shevardnadze's final years was 350m dollars. This year our
budget will be almost 1.9bn dollars. Those who can do the sums can
work out how much it has grown.
What does this increased budget mean? It means that roads are being
built, there are renovations not just in Tbilisi but throughout the
country, there are buses in towns throughout Georgia, a new police
force, a new ambulance service and the most important functions of
the state. The state should be able to have a police force and provide
aid for those in need.
During these [recent] floods everyone saw that the Georgian state
already exists. Not a single family remains in the flood and disaster
zone which has not received state aid. Everyone recognizes this.
Today there is not a single family [left without help] and I saw this
with my own eyes. I walked to see myself, the prime minister walked,
ministers walked 40, 45, or 67 km [presumably distances given by
various ministers]. Our MPs and ministers walked that far. Every
family was provided with aid. This is already a state.
Georgia's revolution as an example to others
On the first anniversary of our revolution, there was a repeat in
Ukraine. For the whole year they were saying it could not be repeated
in Ukraine, look what a poor state Georgia is in; but the Ukrainians
saw that we had been successful. It was one of the most important
stimuli for what happened. The same thing happened in Kyrgyzstan and
many other places in the world, not just the former Soviet Union. It
also applies, for example, to the countries of the Middle East,
whose representatives I met and who told me that what happened in
Georgia made a great impression on them.
The American president is coming to a country which America
recognizes as an example of democracy and freedom for the region
and the world. That is Georgia's special role and mission. This is
a special role and a special mission for each of you.
We are proud that there is freedom in Georgia. This is not simply
a notion. I was a student at Kiev University in 1985, my first
year. In my first year the KGB opened a file on me because I read
foreign journals and because I expressed independent opinions. As
a result everything was closed to me. Under that regime I would not
have been able to travel abroad, although that was my profession - I
studied diplomacy. I would never have been able to find normal work,
I would never have been able to make progress in any area or find
a job I wanted. I am not talking about politics. I would never have
been able to stand before you in this room like this.
Out of my family, in which I was brought up, my grandfather spent 10
years in a Siberian camp, his brother was sentenced to 25 years. My
grandmother's mother, who died last year, had a brother who was
executed and a father who was almost worn to death in Siberian camps.
Therefore, for me and for you freedom is not simply that we hate
the past in which all opportunities were closed to us and in which
there was a closed society. The mark of a closed society is when
someone decides in a corridor somewhere that you should not achieve
anything, that you are done with, a line is drawn under you and you
will never be able to go forward. This does not mean I am a supporter
of democracy just because of that. Democracy is - [changes tack]. I
have seen many people who were oppressed by the Soviet regime and as
soon as the opportunity appeared, they themselves became oppressors
and wanted to oppress someone.
The important thing is that if someone believes in their own power,
in their own talent, if they think they are stronger than others
and can go forward, then they should compete in a free competition,
participate in open debates and exchange opinions freely.
That is important in a free and open society. Why is corruption a
disaster? It is not just because when someone takes a bribe the money
does not go into the state coffers. Corruption is a problem because
it means that three or four groups agree everything among themselves.
Why was our budget only 350m? It was in effect 1.9bn, but the rest of
the money was divided between these three or four groups. No matter
how talented you were, it was their children who went to the best
schools, their children who studied overseas, their children who got
the best jobs and for the rest, you could be a genius - all of you are
very talented, I am well aware of that - but would have no chance or
possibility of success. Therefore open society is a society in which
there are free debates.
Georgian media "freed"
Today is a day for the press. I would like to greet all members
of the press. We have freed the Georgian press from paying taxes,
although that is not the most important thing. We have freed them
from any kind of pressure. A while ago, it makes me laugh, five
intellectuals sat talking for one and a half hours on one channel
and I watched with great curiosity in my office. I turned it on one
evening by chance and was very interested. For an hour and a half
they were complaining that they were not allowed to express their
opinions on television. But it was on television they were saying
that. You get the picture, don't you? How many times have you seen
them complaining on the most popular shows, saying that they are not
allowed to appear on television? They also complain to foreigners. A
foreigner who does not watch our television stations believes them
but you hear this from our television.
People wrote me a letter asking why I express my views so precisely,
saying that it is not good. I want to say categorically that Georgia's
president is not the Queen of Great Britain. The president is elected
to express his opinions and put them into practice. The most important
thing is that the president expresses his opinions. You should be
scared of a president who does not express his opinions or whose
views continually change. That is the kind of predecessor I had,
who in general has no views.
Of course, I am the leader of a political party, I have opinions,
I have my own clear ideas of how Georgia should develop. I am the
leader of a political force which has also expressed its opinions.
Sometimes I attack my opponents, not sometimes but often. However,
the most important thing is not that you attack someone but that they
should have the opportunity to respond, that they can express their
own views.
It is not important that I should not express my opinions. There are
many leaders in the world who do not express their opinions but at
the same time smother with both hands their opponents, who cannot
express their opinions; so the country is a swamp.
I believe deeply that the more free debate there is, the higher
the temperature of political debate, the better its quality, the
more opinions and people involved - [changes tack]. You should take
part in these debates. The previous government said they would not
let students be politicized. What could be more idiotic? Of course
students should be interested in politics because it is their future.
They should be more involved in their country's future than older
people because their fate depends on it. The main thing is that as
a result of the debate we should reach the truth.
This does not mean that we do not have the possibility of a general
consensus where there is a common national interest, general human
values, and what unites us and humanity at large. In a normal society,
if it is to be successful, they need to agree.
As for politicians' evaluation of events and specific people's views,
this is a personal choice, whether it regards the president or any
other political leader. We do not have Dalai Lamas in our politics.
No-one can be above criticism, no-one can be without mistakes. The
more people are correctly criticized, the fewer the mistakes.
I, as a leader, recognize that I do many things to scrutinize my staff
from the top. You should not doubt that I want these members of staff
to be honest and to behave correctly. We have truly tackled corruption
in the past year and a half; however, if there is no other control
mechanism, if there is no press scrutiny, if local administration
heads, governors, police chiefs and MPs are not constantly under
scrutiny, society will not be able to go forward and this control
mechanism will not exist.
That is the meaning of freedom. That is the difference between a
stagnant country and a country which moves forward and develops.
Therefore, Georgia is the best example in the former Soviet Union. In
which other country are there seven independent national television
channels and 25 or 26 independent regional channels?
If you take all the rest of the former Soviet Union, the number of
independent channels is less than in little Georgia. This makes
it difficult for us to operate but this is right for society to
be able to develop. That is the first thing. The second aspect is
responsibility. Responsibility for our country and its future.
"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for
your country"
Sometimes you might think that Georgia was like a car that had been
broken down for a long time, completely stuck in a swamp, the engine
wouldn't start and the petrol had been stolen. Now a new driver
has come and put petrol in it, fixed the engine, made some effort,
started the engine and begun to drive out of the swamp. But now some of
the passengers are complaining, what are you waiting for, why are we
moving so slowly? What would a normal passenger do? He would get out
and push. If everyone got out and pushed the weight would be less and
the car would move forward. I am not saying I want to be the driver -
[changes tack] I am ready to lie down in front of the car so it can
get out of the swamp. But everyone should help to get our country
out of the swamp. We are already on our way.
We are talking about President Bush's visit, but at our Easter meeting
the Patriarch [Ilia II] quoted President Kennedy, who said ask not what
your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. Ilia
Chavchavadze [Georgian 19th century writer and thinker] said the same
thing much earlier, but in a different way. You are a man if you ask
yourself every day whom you have served. Ilia Chavchavadze said it that
way because he was talking about society and Georgia was not a state
at that time. We should say this every day and note its importance.
All of us have a very important mission. To finish what we have
started in conditions of freedom and democracy. In this region
there is a chance for success, the region can develop and be no less
European than any Western or well-developed Eastern European country.
That is our joint task.
Separatist conflicts, plans for peace conference
However, we also face many obstacles and challenges, for example the
issue of [separatist] conflicts. Abkhazia is our deepest common pain,
because a grave injustice was committed there; most of the people
were driven out, the most decent and peaceful people were driven out.
As regards the Tskhinvali region [South Ossetia], we have unveiled
our peace plan. A few days ago, we offered our help to the Tskhinvali
authorities to deal with the consequences of the floods. We were
ready to give them everything, including money, fuel and equipment.
But they refused to accept anything. So, I want to tell those who are
now watching us in Java or Tskhinvali: we were ready to come and help
you, but the group that has appropriated the region denied this to
you. They deprived you of this. We are still ready to help you. They
have been scaring you that you will have problems with passports, but
I am ready to open a Georgian passport office in Tskhinvali tomorrow
and grant Georgian citizenship to every applicant tomorrow. If it
cannot be done in Tskhinvali, I'm inviting everyone to Gori. I'm
instructing the Gori passport office to issue Georgian passports to
every resident of the Tskhinvali, Java, Znauri and other districts
as soon as they request it.
We are ready to organize a large conference in Tbilisi this June
to discuss every aspect of our peace plan on the settlement of
the Tskhinvali region - South Ossetia conflict. We will invite
all organizations working on conflict settlement and peace issues.
Georgia is very open in this respect but we need everyone else to be
open too. We are ready to go further than probably any other country
in the region, because we are not afraid. We are not talking from a
weak position. Some time ago, we disbanded the [Dzevera] reservists
camp and redeployed it dozens of kilometres away from the conflict
zone, so that no-one could say that we were getting ready for
something. Moreover, we have reduced tenfold the number of Georgian
peacekeepers in the conflict zone. I have done this deliberately
because I'm not afraid. I believe that the Georgian state is strong
enough to protect its citizens even in these conditions and I do not
want to give our enemies an excuse to complain.
However, this cannot be a one-way street. We urge all forces with
at least a bit of common sense to agree to a dialogue with us. It
is unacceptable to keep a 22-year-old boy in a dungeon on so-called
treason charges only because he arranged holidays for 500 [Ossetian]
children in Chakvi, Kobuleti and other resorts in Ajaria. I'm talking
about [Aleksandr] Kozayev who is imprisoned in Tskhinvali. A state
cannot regard itself as a self-respecting state if such things can
happen on its territory.
Economic reforms, ethnic minorities
We have very ambitious plans regarding our economic reforms. We are
starting a large-scale anti-bureaucratic reform. This doesn't mean
that we are going to mistreat competent officials, but we will reduce
the functions of the state drastically. All kinds of permits and 95
per cent of licenses should be abolished. If you decide to set up a
business, you should not have to go to some agricultural office and
beg them to give you permission to squeeze grapes and bottle the juice.
[Passage omitted: says that Georgia should have "small bureaucracy
with high salaries", cites examples of unjustified licensing rules;
says that his government "has acquired many enemies" after public
sector job cuts]
We as a society should understand that the country's progress is
impossible without these reforms. Significant development will
be impossible without these reforms because Georgia is very, very
underdeveloped. During the past 15 years, not even a single kilometre
of a good standard road has been built. We have started a road building
programme. We will only need two years to do the fundamental part of
this. We will need to spend a minimum of 200m dollars to rebuild roads
in Tbilisi. This year, we will spend about 50-60m dollars on that,
and maybe slightly more next year.
As for the regions, we have started building a big road in Samegrelo.
Roads in Akhaltsikhe and Ninotsminda are in ruins. Just imagine what
is happening there: no-one remembers the Georgian state, because
there is no road and Georgian TV is not available. However, despite
this, our fellow Armenian citizens [living there] eagerly teach their
children to speak Georgian. [Passage omitted: talks about his recent
trip to Ninotsminda]
We should take care of these people. They are citizens of
Georgia. We should work on the integration of ethnic minorities. We
are establishing a school of [public] administration for them that
will offer six-month and nine-month study programmes for Azerbaijanis,
Armenians, Ossetians, Greeks, Jews and whoever else is not integrated,
and also Russians who do not speak Georgian. We should teach them
Georgian and let them see that there are highly paid positions for them
too in the reduced, but not corrupt, Georgian state apparatus. They
will not be able to occupy these positions just by chance. But when
we have 100 new Armenian officials this year, 100 Azerbaijanis, 100
Ossetians, and 100 officials of other nationalities, the picture will
change completely. Others will realize that this country is theirs
too and that they have a good chance of taking part in the future of
this country.
This is another unique model for the entire region, the region
which has been devastated by ethnic conflicts, the Balkans of the
former Soviet Union. Therefore we, as a democratic country, should
demonstrate that democracy gives a chance to everyone regardless of
their ethnic background or property status.
Bush visit not like Brezhnev's
We have embarked on a very important stage of reforms, and President
Bush's visit is intended to support these reforms. Now, some people,
especially in the Russian press, and some Georgians have joined them
too, have been comparing President Bush's visit to visits by former
[Communist Party] general secretaries [in Soviet times]. I remember
those times. Once, [Leonid] Brezhnev was coming to Georgia and I
was forced to take part in marching rehearsals for four weeks. It
was in 1981, Brezhnev was no longer on top form, and they said that
the size of the ceremony had to be reduced by three times. Instead
of four hours, it would continue for only an hour and a half. So
they told tall boys to stay and they let the smaller ones go. Well,
I was the tallest guy in my class, but I pretended to be smaller and
they let me go. So I was not there to see Brezhnev.
Those who make these comparisons do not understand that at that time
Georgia was an enslaved country and the general secretaries were our
main slave masters who would come to the enslaved territories in order
to strengthen the slavery. But President Bush, the American president,
is the leader of the free world and is coming to a free country which
has liberated itself, especially now, in order to support freedom,
democracy and the future of this country as an independent and free
country. Those who do not see the difference remain trapped in the
time of the Soviet Union and red carpets. This is not a matter of age,
I know some young people who also fail to see this difference.
This is the difference between Georgia of that period and the present
Georgia. At that time, Georgians did not serve in the army or, if they
did, they were warehousemen or cooks [in the Soviet Army], although
I served in combat units for two years. Now, serving in the Georgian
army is a completely different thing. Now people are proud to serve
in the army. [Passage omitted: praises the morale of Georgian troops
during recent artillery exercises]
Since I have touched on the issue of army, I want to tell you that
I am personally very proud that our soldiers are in Iraq. I am proud
that our soldiers are in Kosovo, because this is an integral part of
our democratic, international role. [Looks at his watch] I was told
not to talk for more than 15 minutes, but I've been talking for too
long. So, now I will be listening to you. [Applause]
[Moderator] Mr President, taking into account our situation, students
still have many questions to ask you, despite your comprehensive
comments. [Passage omitted]
Expectations from Bush visit
[Question] Mr President, let me congratulate you on the Easter
holiday. [Passage omitted] Undoubtedly, President Bush's visit is
very important for Georgia. What results do you expect from this
visit? [Passage omitted]
[Saakashvili] First of all, I want to tell you that when we talk about
President Bush's visit it is only part of a broader picture. We should
not have the illusion that Bush will come and then everything will then
be fine. It will not be like that. We have to accomplish everything
ourselves. We should not wait for anything. [Passage omitted: describes
how neighbours are helping each other in flood hit Svaneti]
We are not expecting America to come and solve our problems for us,
but this visit underlines that Georgia has international importance as
never before in its history. This visit is not just a show of support
for Georgian democracy. It is a visit which supports democracy in the
region. We need democracy in this region like we need air. Without
Ukraine, Georgia would be in a very difficult situation today. Some of
you were in Ukraine. I will never forget the feeling of pride when I
was standing before a million people on 31 December [in Kiev]. Before
that date, I was so eager to go there that it was very difficult
to convince me that presidents don't behave like that. Eventually
I was persuaded not to go [before 31 December], but when [Viktor]
Yushchenko was practically president already, although almost no-one
had recognized it apart from us, I went there on 31 December, and
the feeling of pride was amazing.
However, many of you were there before that, young Georgian students
with their eyes lit up, standing together with Ukrainians. By the way,
I've heard that some of them started international [Georgian-Ukrainian]
families, so there was a pleasant side to it too, but the risk was
much greater. Those people were our representatives. Without Ukraine,
Georgia would be more isolated and under much greater pressure. Then
there is Moldova. Under Georgia's chairmanship of GUUAM, it turned from
being a virtually defunct organization into an organization with which
Romania, Lithuania and Poland are actively cooperating, not to mention
Ukraine and Moldova. The Moldovan president said at his inauguration
that Moldovan democracy was inspired by Georgian democracy.
"Freedom will triumph in Belarus"
I am certain that freedom will triumph in Belarus. I am certain of
that. It will win everywhere. In Kyrgyzstan, [MP] Givi Targamadze
was there [during the revolution], I don't think it is a big secret,
he was there together with some other fighters for democracy. He was
certainly not leading anything, as some people claimed, but when the
first rallies were broken up, Givi got on a horse and crossed the
border. Actually, he says he was on a horse but others say it was a
donkey, although it is not important. He crossed over into Uzbekistan
through minefields, the situation was difficult there.
When we talk about what democracy means, this is a chance for
Georgia to solve its problems, problems with our neighbours, problems
associated with our conflicts. I am sure that in the end the public
should make their views known. Those people in Tskhinvali who were
denied the right to get help from the Georgian state, their state,
whose language they speak, whose capital they visit every other day,
who marry other citizens of that state. They have been denied the
right to get aid and food from this state in the situation when the
Transcaucasian highway is closed and they cannot get help from anywhere
else. They have not received pensions and salaries for several months
but they are deprived of this help. When these people are allowed
to express their views, when Alik Kozayev is released from prison,
I'm sure that nothing will stand in the way of a peaceful settlement
of this conflict.
"Red line" of the Caucasus should not be crossed
This is our meaning for democracy, the meaning of Bush's visit to
Georgia. The American president's visit is the final confirmation
that Georgia is an independent country whose borders and territory
are inviolable. The red line lies on the Caucasus Range and no-one
should cross it to this side. Everything that is temporarily on this
side should go back.
I am one of the few presidents in the world who will have the
opportunity, within the space of three or four days - although this
is not finally decided but I have hope - to sign joint declarations
with the presidents of Russia and America. The contents of these
declarations are different but they complement each other. We have
had Russian troops in Georgia for 200 years. There is no point in
this for Russia, and for Georgia it is a risk.
We now have an historic chance for the step-by-step, civilized [changes
tack] - there are other ways, for example Syria withdrew a contingent
three of four times larger in two weeks and without problems. We are
prepared to talk about two years or even three years, but I intend
to resolve this issue during my term of office as stipulated by
the constitution and I'm not going to make any concessions in this
regard. Peacefully, in a civilized manner, we should change the form
of our relations. It is unacceptable to talk to us while using troops,
tanks and weapons. Let us talk about investments. There are many other
issues too. Georgia's economy needs improvement and I think that Bush's
visit is a very important sign for our integration into Euro-Atlantic
bodies. This is important support for Georgia's independence and a
very important stimulus to democracy in the entire region, democracy
which we all need like air.
[Passage omitted: Answering the next few questions, Saakashvili says
that he categorically opposes "nationalization of private companies",
urges students to sue corrupt officials themselves, talks about student
exchange programmes with foreign countries, the government's efforts
to build new energy facilities, the lack of qualified engineers in
Georgia, the anniversary of the overthrow of Ajarian leader Aslan
Abashidze, the importance of economic development in provinces, and
"a new air of optimism" in Georgia]
Abkhaz welcome to visit Georgia
[Question] Nino Lomouri, Tbilisi State University. A few years ago
some students of Tbilisi State University travelled to Abkhazia
with the help of the UN. They travelled through Abkhazia to Sochi to
meet students of Sukhumi University. During three days of meetings
the Georgian and Abkhaz students got to know each other. They are
still in touch. Later, there were promises from [former President]
Shevardnadze that the authorities would provide assistance to them
to organize other meetings, but those promises were not kept. We need
help from the authorities to [interrupted by the president]
[Saakashvili] Generally, of course we need help to return to Abkhazia,
but that is another kind of help. As for inviting the Abkhaz here,
you know that last year we invited Abkhaz children [to Tbilisi]. We
financed their trip. The children spent two weeks here, we planted
trees in a park together. But when they went back, their parents
were detained in Sukhumi and some of the children were detained
too. [Georgian government's spokeswoman] Leila Avidzba is Abkhaz, she
is from Sukhumi, she studied in Tbilisi and now she is a news presenter
for Georgian [State] TV and she also works in the government. Her
mother has been given a suspended sentence because Leila works here,
although she is Abkhaz and she has never betrayed the Abkhaz people.
If you want to invite someone, bring them here, we fully support
these contacts. We should destroy this siege mentality. What is their
mentality now? In the past, [late chairman of the Tbilisi-backed
Abkhaz government in exile, Tamaz] Nadareishvili's figure was used to
frighten those 35,000 remaining Abkhaz who live there, unfortunately
others have left. Now they have created another bogeyman, [Defence
Minister Irakli] Okruashvili. Okruashvili will come and eat your
children, they say. But nobody is going to carry out any kind of
aggressive action anywhere. We should understand that we must destroy
this wall of mistrust. This will only happen through contacts between
people. Every person should know that this is their country that will
take their interests into account. We are not going to take by force
something which can be resolved through human contacts in a democratic
way. This is a very principled position of the Georgian state. Today
we need economic development, energy facilities, roads and tourism
rather than a war and chaos. Everyone should understand this. At the
same time, we need a strong state. The way to Abkhazia lies through
a strong state. Help us to convince those several dozen thousands of
our compatriots who live on the territory where many more Abkhaz and
more than 300,000 Georgians lived in the past.
[Question] We have a proposal, the Abkhaz agree too, but we need
financing.
[Saakashvili] Submit your proposal to me.
[Moderator] The last question, Mr President.
Russian timeframe for base withdrawal "realistic"
[Question] Mariam Bochorishvili, Tbilisi State University. Mr
President, do you know if President Bush and President Putin are going
to discuss the pullout of the Russian bases from Georgia? Will they
sign a document guaranteeing the pullout?
[Saakashvili] An agreement on this should be signed by me and President
Putin. We have been exchanging documents. Last year, when we first
met the Russians, they told us that they needed 13-15 years [to pull
out the bases]. By that time, you would be of the same age as I am
now. I see [presidential spokesman] Gela [Charkviani] is looking at
me, [smiles] I guess it is inappropriate to talk about age in his
presence. Now their [Russian] Defence Ministry said that they would
need three to four years and their Foreign Ministry said two to three
years. That's what I call a realistic approach. We are not going to
throw Russians into the sea, as some people are claiming, but neither
are we going to let 200 years [of Russian military presence in Georgia]
grow into 300 years.
Since we are going to resolve this issue during my presidency, we also
need help from the public. They should know this. We have managed
to achieve this progress because Georgia has become a successful
country. We have become a state. State institutions and democracy are
functioning here. Even during debates nothing has been destroyed. I
remember that last year some people predicted after some arguments in
parliament that Saakashvili was doomed to failure. On the contrary,
the more debates we have the better. I am certain that we will win
all these debates. In the end, people should decide this issue rather
than some particular groups or foreign forces. We should reach this
agreement, this is a matter of principle for me. Our position will
be very principled to the end. By the way, this is being decided
right now. Today is 3 May, and we should reach an agreement by 8
May. [Passage omitted: wraps up the meeting]