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The New Anatolian, Turkey
May 16 2005
'Germany has the full support for Turkey'
German Ambassador Wolf-Ruthart Born: 'We're very happy with the new
secretary-general of the MGK'
By Nursun EREL
The German ambassador complains about the daily Vakit, asking: 'Using
such a headline for the chancellor -- "Nazi Kafas?" (Nazi Head) --
is this good journalism?'
'The most important issue in Turkey is overcoming social differences.
All the other issues are secondary. If you ask the average Turkish
person, he will ask for a job'
German Ambassador Wolf-Ruthart Born, evaluating bilateral relations
with Turkey, said, "We are at an excellent point, Germany has full
support for Turkey towards its EU ambition." In his interview with
TNA, Ambassador Born emphasized Germany's uneasiness about the Vakit
daily -- a Turkish daily published in Germany until recently --
and asked: "Is this good journalism? Publishing a headline on the
German chancellor saying Nazi Kafas [Nazi Head]? And publishing
such cartoons? In my opinion it is a horrible thing." He further
claimed that the prohibition of the Turkish daily newspaper in
Germany was done on a completely legal basis. But as for dealing
with illegal publications of the terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party
(PKK) in Germany, Ambassador Born expressed reluctance: "What kind of
publications are they? If they are doing this from underground, such as
sending the publications in an envelope, it is not easy to deal with."
Ambassador Born, answering the questions of TNA, gave his views on
a wide range of issues:
Bilateral relations
TNA: How do you see bilateral relations with Turkey?
BORN: Excellent. It is very rare for a German chancellor to visit a
country three times in less than in two years. Chancellor [Gerhard
Schroeder] repeated his full support for Turkey's European Union
ambition, he repeated again and again that on Oct. 3, the accession
negotiations will start. This is a very clear message. You have the
backing of the Germany.
TNA: The chancellor seemed surprised at getting a critical question
about the prohibition of the Vakit daily newspaper in Germany,
didn't he?
BORN: Not at all. Vakit was prohibited by legal procedures and for
obvious reasons. If you see what Vakit published in Germany, by the
way, what is published in Turkey, I wonder if you'd think this is
a good newspaper. I'm very tired of this newspaper, actually it is
a horrible thing, not a newspaper. But the chancellor very clearly
said that the prohibition was legal, secondly the administrative
prohibition was possible, because the question was like, 'Even the
court didn't prohibit the newspaper.' In Germany, the legal system
says administrative prohibition is also possible, but you can go
to the court too, then you get the court decision. Now my guess,
and also the chancellor's, is the court will certainly confirm
this decision. Because Vakit was [trafficking] in racist attitudes,
attacking our Jewish citizens in Germany. I wonder if they don't have
a lawyer, to undertake legal records or to go to the court. If they
are that sure about their case, why don't they go to the court? You
see these headlines, and cartoons showing our chancellor as a nazi?
The headline is 'Nazi Kafas' (Nazi Head) -- is this good journalism?
You see the cartoon, his footprints are the Nazi symbol [the
swastika]. Is there any humor in that?
Turkish cartoonist
TNA: But the Turkish prime minister's attitude towards Turkish
cartoonist Musa Kart was once severely criticized by the Germans too.
These are just cartoons.
BORN: But our chancellor did not take any action, you see. You have
enormous freedom in Germany, you have the freedom of the press but
within the limits of the law.
TNA: If it's that easy to prohibit a publication in Germany, what about
the journals or bulletins spread by the PKK calling for violence? Why
don't we see any action against them?
BORN: Are they officially sold, or are they circulated in envelopes?
So if they are like this [in envelopes], if they are doing this from
underground it's not easy to deal with, you know it's not easy to act
like the criminals act. But I have to remind you that PKK is accepted
as a terrorist organization in Germany.
TNA: How do you see the atmosphere that the Turkish press has faced
of late? It seems that the new penal code is not going to be amended
in line with the requests of the press circles. Even though it was
postponed.
BORN: We're very closely observing the developments. Just before
you came in, I was reading the Christian Democratic Union's (CDU)
communique about it, so I don't want to get into details now, but let's
wait to see what the final product is, it is not the final product yet,
it will come out as I understand on June 1. The Parliament may still
have a look on it, so we will follow the developments very closely
and report about it. My journalist friends here tell me that compared
to previous situations, you've got more freedom than before.
The military-civilian relationship
TNA: And the military-civil relationship. Do steps still need to
be taken?
BORN: One of the suggestions by the EU was to put more civilian
elements into this relationship. So the secretary general of the
National Security Council (MGK) now is a civilian. A former ambassador
who does a very good job. All we ambassadors have regular contacts with
him and I must say we appreciate this very much. I suppose these are
the first steps and maybe in the long run, further steps might follow.
TNA: Isn't it a problem for EU side, that the Turkish chief negotiator
still hasn't been appointed yet?
BORN: The negotiations will start on Oct. 3 so you have enough time.
During our lunch we met with Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, he
mentioned in his speech himself as the chief negotiator.
The headscarf issue
TNA: The headscarf issue is always very controversial in Turkey. Do
you see this issue also as a matter for discussion in Germany?
BORN: In private life everybody is free to wear or not to wear what he
or she wants. But in public life you have many possibilities, you see
some countries do it this way and some countries do it the other way,
so there is margin for discussion, we discuss that also in Germany
TNA: So what's the result?
BORN: The result is mixed. It went to the [German] Constitutional
Court. We have the cultural autonomy of the federated states, you
have some states that they say no problem, let them wear headscarf as
teachers. The girls, I mean the students, can do it anyway, there's no
problem with that anyway. It's just a matter for teaching personnel,
because it is said that they should not wear it as a visible religious
symbol.
TNA: So in most of the European countries and in Germany, in higher
education there is no such problem?
BORN: To my knowledge, no. We don't have a Board of Higher Education
(YOK) [as in Turkey], our universities are fairly autonomous.
TNA: Do you think YOK is an obstacle to autonomy?
BORN: No comment on that.
TNA: How do you approach to the Armenian allegations and accusations
towards Turkey?
BORN: A very good idea put forth by Prime Minister Erdogan was
establishing a commission in which historians, experts will take part
from both sides and from abroad. Our chancellor said that we welcome
such an idea and even are ready to participate. So if this committee
is going to be established and if German experts are needed, we will
be there.
TNA: On the Cyprus issue, it seems a total disappointment for the
Turkish Cypriots up to now. How do you see the future?
BORN: Because you did all the right things, we [the EU] didn't deliver
unfortunately even the financial support, because we couldn't get
the unanimity to implement this decision. So now we hope that we
will reach this goal. But the basic hope now is the initiative to be
developed by the UN secretary-general to gather both sides' concerns
and resume [efforts for] a solution to be negotiated, which will end
with a united Cyprus.
The poverty line
TNA: You travel quite a bit. How do you see the regional differences
in Turkey?
BORN: I saw considerable parts of the country from north to south,
from east to west. I met many, many people, I talked to them, listened
to many people. So I have a certain impression of the country. There
is a lot of unemployment and poverty in the southeastern parts
particularly. You grasp the poverty. You hear it, you talk to them,
it is fairly visible. You may discuss the Kurdish, or Armenian issues,
you may discuss many things, you may discuss the civilian-military
issues, but the most important issue in Turkey is to overcome the
social differences. All the other issues are secondary. In my mind
this is the most burning challenge. If you ask the average Turkish
person, he will ask for a job.
The average income is around $4,000 per capita, but look at how many
people are under the average. The numbers I read, that 15 million are
very poor, another 10 million are poor, so 25 million people in Turkey
are around the poverty line, which means [income of] about 100-200
euros per year. That is a big challenge. Therefore let's deal with
the bread and butter issues.
TNA: And how about Turkish cuisine?
BORN: So many colors and smells. The various fish, they all are so
delicious, and the Turkish bread, the pides with meat or cheese. And
that delicious manti, those fresh herbs and yogurt (cacik), the
delicious big black Turkish olives, they all are mouth-watering
aren't they? So, these are my favorite dishes, I'm afraid I eat too
much, so sometimes I feel my trousers don't fit. But how can I stay
away? You've got very good wines which I can't refuse, and I can't
say no to a glass of good raki. So it is very nice to be here.
May 16 2005
'Germany has the full support for Turkey'
German Ambassador Wolf-Ruthart Born: 'We're very happy with the new
secretary-general of the MGK'
By Nursun EREL
The German ambassador complains about the daily Vakit, asking: 'Using
such a headline for the chancellor -- "Nazi Kafas?" (Nazi Head) --
is this good journalism?'
'The most important issue in Turkey is overcoming social differences.
All the other issues are secondary. If you ask the average Turkish
person, he will ask for a job'
German Ambassador Wolf-Ruthart Born, evaluating bilateral relations
with Turkey, said, "We are at an excellent point, Germany has full
support for Turkey towards its EU ambition." In his interview with
TNA, Ambassador Born emphasized Germany's uneasiness about the Vakit
daily -- a Turkish daily published in Germany until recently --
and asked: "Is this good journalism? Publishing a headline on the
German chancellor saying Nazi Kafas [Nazi Head]? And publishing
such cartoons? In my opinion it is a horrible thing." He further
claimed that the prohibition of the Turkish daily newspaper in
Germany was done on a completely legal basis. But as for dealing
with illegal publications of the terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party
(PKK) in Germany, Ambassador Born expressed reluctance: "What kind of
publications are they? If they are doing this from underground, such as
sending the publications in an envelope, it is not easy to deal with."
Ambassador Born, answering the questions of TNA, gave his views on
a wide range of issues:
Bilateral relations
TNA: How do you see bilateral relations with Turkey?
BORN: Excellent. It is very rare for a German chancellor to visit a
country three times in less than in two years. Chancellor [Gerhard
Schroeder] repeated his full support for Turkey's European Union
ambition, he repeated again and again that on Oct. 3, the accession
negotiations will start. This is a very clear message. You have the
backing of the Germany.
TNA: The chancellor seemed surprised at getting a critical question
about the prohibition of the Vakit daily newspaper in Germany,
didn't he?
BORN: Not at all. Vakit was prohibited by legal procedures and for
obvious reasons. If you see what Vakit published in Germany, by the
way, what is published in Turkey, I wonder if you'd think this is
a good newspaper. I'm very tired of this newspaper, actually it is
a horrible thing, not a newspaper. But the chancellor very clearly
said that the prohibition was legal, secondly the administrative
prohibition was possible, because the question was like, 'Even the
court didn't prohibit the newspaper.' In Germany, the legal system
says administrative prohibition is also possible, but you can go
to the court too, then you get the court decision. Now my guess,
and also the chancellor's, is the court will certainly confirm
this decision. Because Vakit was [trafficking] in racist attitudes,
attacking our Jewish citizens in Germany. I wonder if they don't have
a lawyer, to undertake legal records or to go to the court. If they
are that sure about their case, why don't they go to the court? You
see these headlines, and cartoons showing our chancellor as a nazi?
The headline is 'Nazi Kafas' (Nazi Head) -- is this good journalism?
You see the cartoon, his footprints are the Nazi symbol [the
swastika]. Is there any humor in that?
Turkish cartoonist
TNA: But the Turkish prime minister's attitude towards Turkish
cartoonist Musa Kart was once severely criticized by the Germans too.
These are just cartoons.
BORN: But our chancellor did not take any action, you see. You have
enormous freedom in Germany, you have the freedom of the press but
within the limits of the law.
TNA: If it's that easy to prohibit a publication in Germany, what about
the journals or bulletins spread by the PKK calling for violence? Why
don't we see any action against them?
BORN: Are they officially sold, or are they circulated in envelopes?
So if they are like this [in envelopes], if they are doing this from
underground it's not easy to deal with, you know it's not easy to act
like the criminals act. But I have to remind you that PKK is accepted
as a terrorist organization in Germany.
TNA: How do you see the atmosphere that the Turkish press has faced
of late? It seems that the new penal code is not going to be amended
in line with the requests of the press circles. Even though it was
postponed.
BORN: We're very closely observing the developments. Just before
you came in, I was reading the Christian Democratic Union's (CDU)
communique about it, so I don't want to get into details now, but let's
wait to see what the final product is, it is not the final product yet,
it will come out as I understand on June 1. The Parliament may still
have a look on it, so we will follow the developments very closely
and report about it. My journalist friends here tell me that compared
to previous situations, you've got more freedom than before.
The military-civilian relationship
TNA: And the military-civil relationship. Do steps still need to
be taken?
BORN: One of the suggestions by the EU was to put more civilian
elements into this relationship. So the secretary general of the
National Security Council (MGK) now is a civilian. A former ambassador
who does a very good job. All we ambassadors have regular contacts with
him and I must say we appreciate this very much. I suppose these are
the first steps and maybe in the long run, further steps might follow.
TNA: Isn't it a problem for EU side, that the Turkish chief negotiator
still hasn't been appointed yet?
BORN: The negotiations will start on Oct. 3 so you have enough time.
During our lunch we met with Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, he
mentioned in his speech himself as the chief negotiator.
The headscarf issue
TNA: The headscarf issue is always very controversial in Turkey. Do
you see this issue also as a matter for discussion in Germany?
BORN: In private life everybody is free to wear or not to wear what he
or she wants. But in public life you have many possibilities, you see
some countries do it this way and some countries do it the other way,
so there is margin for discussion, we discuss that also in Germany
TNA: So what's the result?
BORN: The result is mixed. It went to the [German] Constitutional
Court. We have the cultural autonomy of the federated states, you
have some states that they say no problem, let them wear headscarf as
teachers. The girls, I mean the students, can do it anyway, there's no
problem with that anyway. It's just a matter for teaching personnel,
because it is said that they should not wear it as a visible religious
symbol.
TNA: So in most of the European countries and in Germany, in higher
education there is no such problem?
BORN: To my knowledge, no. We don't have a Board of Higher Education
(YOK) [as in Turkey], our universities are fairly autonomous.
TNA: Do you think YOK is an obstacle to autonomy?
BORN: No comment on that.
TNA: How do you approach to the Armenian allegations and accusations
towards Turkey?
BORN: A very good idea put forth by Prime Minister Erdogan was
establishing a commission in which historians, experts will take part
from both sides and from abroad. Our chancellor said that we welcome
such an idea and even are ready to participate. So if this committee
is going to be established and if German experts are needed, we will
be there.
TNA: On the Cyprus issue, it seems a total disappointment for the
Turkish Cypriots up to now. How do you see the future?
BORN: Because you did all the right things, we [the EU] didn't deliver
unfortunately even the financial support, because we couldn't get
the unanimity to implement this decision. So now we hope that we
will reach this goal. But the basic hope now is the initiative to be
developed by the UN secretary-general to gather both sides' concerns
and resume [efforts for] a solution to be negotiated, which will end
with a united Cyprus.
The poverty line
TNA: You travel quite a bit. How do you see the regional differences
in Turkey?
BORN: I saw considerable parts of the country from north to south,
from east to west. I met many, many people, I talked to them, listened
to many people. So I have a certain impression of the country. There
is a lot of unemployment and poverty in the southeastern parts
particularly. You grasp the poverty. You hear it, you talk to them,
it is fairly visible. You may discuss the Kurdish, or Armenian issues,
you may discuss many things, you may discuss the civilian-military
issues, but the most important issue in Turkey is to overcome the
social differences. All the other issues are secondary. In my mind
this is the most burning challenge. If you ask the average Turkish
person, he will ask for a job.
The average income is around $4,000 per capita, but look at how many
people are under the average. The numbers I read, that 15 million are
very poor, another 10 million are poor, so 25 million people in Turkey
are around the poverty line, which means [income of] about 100-200
euros per year. That is a big challenge. Therefore let's deal with
the bread and butter issues.
TNA: And how about Turkish cuisine?
BORN: So many colors and smells. The various fish, they all are so
delicious, and the Turkish bread, the pides with meat or cheese. And
that delicious manti, those fresh herbs and yogurt (cacik), the
delicious big black Turkish olives, they all are mouth-watering
aren't they? So, these are my favorite dishes, I'm afraid I eat too
much, so sometimes I feel my trousers don't fit. But how can I stay
away? You've got very good wines which I can't refuse, and I can't
say no to a glass of good raki. So it is very nice to be here.