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'CONFLICT CANNOT BE SETTLED IF BORDERS REMAIN CLOSED'
AZG Armenian Daily #164
14/09/2005
Interview
Kaan Soyak Assures
Daily Azg received these days a copy of an interview of Kaan
Soyak, chairman of Turkish-Armenian Business Development Council,
to Associated Press. The interview contains interesting views on
Armenian-Turkish relations and Nagorno Karabakh issue. Below we
present it abridged.
- How do you evaluate the current situation of Turkish-Armenian
economical relations?
- The economical relations are developing well despite of
all difficulties; a lot of businessmen are establishing mutual
relations. Armenian and Turkish businessmen are cooperating especially
in the market of Russia and Middle Asia. Armenian Diaspora and Turkish
businessmen have established serious relations recently. There are
a lot of representatives of Armenian Diaspora willing to meet and
cooperate with the businessmen from Anatolia.
- How much is the total volume of trade turnover between Armenian
and Turkish businessmen at the moment?
- This is not les than 100-120 million dollars. The nations of both
countries are interested in establishing economical relations. There
were large-scale trade relations between the Turks and Armenians
in the history of Ottoman too. Sale and purchase are mutually
at the moment. We have implemented some projects so far through
the organization I run. We are cooperating in a number of spheres,
especially energy, transportation, telecommunication, textile industry,
tourism.
- Have you achieved any positive results as the result of the
implementation of projects to normalize the relations between Armenia
and Turkey? Could you do any change to the public opinion in comparison
with the previous periods?
- Of course...Turkish community got to know Armenia, Armenians
again. They got to know that most of Armenians want to live in a
friendly atmosphere with Turkish people. Turkish community treats
the problems between Armenia and Azerbaijan more objectively;
wrong policies of both countries are given coverage by the press
obviously. It is accepted now that Russia's obvious policy for the
benefit of Armenia in previous years did nothing good.
Besides, Turkish public opinion advocates objective resolution of the
conflict. The economical difficulties faced by Anatolia province are
due to the closing of Turkey-Armenia borderlines. Azerbaijan is also
responsible as Armenia for Turkey facing this problem.
- Is Turkey which is facing hardships in regard to access to European
Union expected to take any positive step in the direction of opening
its borderlines with Armenia?
- European Union is expecting Turkey-Armenia borderlines to open
obviously.
There is no reason to prevent this. Thus, Europeans do not think
like Azerbaijanis regarding this matter. I mean, the conflict between
Azerbaijan and Armenia cannot be resolved by closing the borderlines,
as you see it has not been solved so far. Azerbaijan puts pressure
on Turkey for leaving the borderlines closed. However, changing of
this policy would ease Turkey and provide opportunity for finding more
active variant supported by the international community with regard to
the resolution of the conflict. If Robert Kocharyan and Ilham Aliyev
reach a consensus concerning the resolution of the conflict in Kazan
on 26 August the matter of opening the borderlines will come to the
agenda, of course.
- How does the international community assess the activity of TABDC?
- They think positively concerning our activity. We have relations
with a number of organizations. We have regular contacts with the
high-ranking officials of the important states. Even the UNO approves
the activity of the TABDC and supports it. Our functioning is indicated
as a model in other similar regions of the world.
- How do you evaluate the imprisonment of historical scientist Ektan
Turkyilmaz in Turkey?
- I regretted that Turkyilmaz was imprisoned, regrettably, Armenian
government made a great mistake here. The matter of releasing of
Turkyilmaz brought Turks and Armenians together. We all want him to
be set free.
Personally I do not believe that Turkyilmaz attempted to export
forbidden books from Armenia on purpose. Azerbaijanis, Turks and
Armenians can cooperate for releasing this scientist. The number of
those intending to investigate the events happened in 1915 began
to increase in the past few years. The number of those willing to
investigate these archives has increased. The step taken by Armenia
is not a right one.
- The official Ankara announced that it will not open its borderlines
with Armenia in the period when you are increasing your efforts. How
do such statements affect the activity of the TABDC?
- Of course, such statements are not approvable, Ankara stated that
its official position depends on the improvement in the resolution
of the Upper Garabagh conflict and waits for the step taken in this
direction. A consensus should be reached regarding this matter. The
step to be taken by Azerbaijan is also important as the step of
Armenia. Regrettably, it would not be right to announce the communities
of both countries about the steps to be taken. Do remember how the
radical nationalists criticized Turkey's supporting Annan plan on the
resolution of the Cyprus conflict. The communities of Azerbaijan and
Armenia are very responsible for this matter.
They have to support the step to be taken by the government and should
know that these steps will be the most right steps for the future of
the peoples even if they are not the most ideal ones.
- We would like to know your opinion concerning the so-called "genocide
of Armenians"...
- We do not deal with this matter, however, we want the both
sides to discuss the matter together, exchange their information
and documents. I treat this matter a little bit morally. I am
impressed when seeing that Armenians from Anatolia still preserve
the traditions of Anatolia though they lived in foreign countries
for 2-3 generations. Though I want to tell them "come back and turn
to your homes" inside me I know they will not return. God willing,
if Turkey-Armenia borderlines are opened thousands of immigrant
Armenians from Anatolia will visit Turkey, Armenia, even Azerbaijan
as tourists. It is very important for us to understand each other
morally in regard with the solution of the events happened in 1915.
- Do you believe the reconciliation of Turkish and Armenian peoples
and opening of the borders?
- I believe that, peace will be restored in the South Caucasus in
a shortest time and the borderlines will be opened. Azerbaijan and
Armenia should reach a consensus and Turkey-Armenia borderline should
be opened in order to reconcile. The meeting due to in Kazan is very
important in this matter, I believe that peace will be achieved soon
if no one prevents it. The most important problem will be the status of
the Upper Garabagh, of course. There must a formula for both countries
to reach a consensus. Can Turkish businessmen cooperate with the
businessmen of Upper Garabagh if there is no peace? Why not? There can
never be any obstacle for trade. But, Upper Garabagh is not recognized
by the international community. Therefore, no credit can be given to
this region, the goods exported her can not be insured, international
banks cannot function, there is no international guarantee for the
capital invested here. There are some other problems, only free trade
can be realized with this region unless the status of Upper Garabagh
is defined, but, of course, no one wants such trade. The situation
is the same in North Cyprus that is why no capital is invested to
this region. I think, tourism must be the first sector which will be
given impulse to by Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia jointly,
if peace is achieved and the borders are opened. The South Caucasus
has the richest tourism potential in the world; this region can
attract thousands of tourisms.
- The TABDC demonstrated the initiative on crossing the
Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan main export pipeline through Armenia ...Do you
still support your initiative?
-The TABDC called the pipeline to pass through Armenia as "Pipeline
of peace", it means, this pipeline will link us for many years. All
the countries, including Azerbaijan admit that the pipeline to pass
through Armenia is more effective economically. The construction of
Armenia section of the pipeline means 20% reduction in the financial
expenditures. We cannot say that this matter was decided fully,
there are pipelines remained from the USSR period in Armenia and it
is possible to reconstruct these pipelines by the account of very
little investment. As the result, Turkey and Azerbaijan might gain
a lot of incomes from these pipelines.
- How much is Turkish community ready for the opinions, ideas you
mention?
- Turkish public fed up with the political difficulties, we have Cyprus
problem which has been lasted for more than 30 years and expected to
last, the problems with Iraq and Syria have not been solved and the
problem in regard with Armenians has not been solved either. Turkish
public opinion would not judge Azerbaijan 7-8 years ago, but now the
public opinion is that Azerbaijan is not making enough efforts for
achieving peace.
- What do think, your efforts will result in when Armenia makes
territorial claims against Turkey?
- The territorial claims have no ground and I have not met any
Armenian working seriously in this direction. Minor part of the
Armenian Diaspora claim this, but these claims are not accepted
seriously by the community.
The borderlines of the two countries are guaranteed by the
international commitments and these claims will be removed after
the diplomatic relations between Turkey and Armenia are restored. As
the matter of fact, Azerbaijani Turks, Armenians and Anatolia Turks
must chose a target as it is in Europe in which there is no borders
and it is possible to move freely. Who can tell that one state has
a territorial claim against the other in Europe today?
Regrettably, such matters are only disputed in our region.
- There are Russian military bases in Armenia; don't you think that
this factor might endanger Turkish capital invested to the economy
of Armenia?
- Russia is not a threatening factor for Turkey; on the contrary,
Turkey can meet some needs of Russian military bases. The Turkish
are real professionals in meeting the needs of military objects. The
USA military bases have been in Turkey for a long time and the needs
of these bases have been met by Turkey. Russia intends to function
together with Turkey. Russia and Turkey can keep peace in the South
Caucasus jointly. The dividends gained by keeping peace in the South
Caucasus are many times better for Russia than the dividends gained
by the military bases.
- Have you been put any pressures by the government and NGOs of
Azerbaijan with regard to your efforts in the direction of normalizing
the relations with Armenia?
- We want to establish peace between Armenians and Turkish people
and we believe that our activity will be the foundation of peace
and tranquility in the whole South Caucasus. On the other hand,
we do not treat the problem like Armenia or Turkey. Therefore, we
have been pressured by the organizations that interpret the problem
meeting the interests of Azerbaijan. We always tell them to take into
consideration the interests of Turkey too.
- Does the Foreign Ministry of Turkey support your activity?
- We are not linked with the government; we are NGO that tries
to normalize Turkish-Armenian relations. We have nothing against
Turkey, Armenia or Azerbaijan. Turkish Foreign Ministry is aware of
our activity.
- Are you supported by any people or organization from Azerbaijan?
- No Azerbaijani or organization from Azerbaijan judged us when we
explained our action plan .On the contrary, there are many persons and
organizations that want us to include Azerbaijan into our activity
circle. We are going to expand our action circle by the account of
Azerbaijan and Georgia in a shortest time.
AZG Armenian Daily #164
14/09/2005
Interview
Kaan Soyak Assures
Daily Azg received these days a copy of an interview of Kaan
Soyak, chairman of Turkish-Armenian Business Development Council,
to Associated Press. The interview contains interesting views on
Armenian-Turkish relations and Nagorno Karabakh issue. Below we
present it abridged.
- How do you evaluate the current situation of Turkish-Armenian
economical relations?
- The economical relations are developing well despite of
all difficulties; a lot of businessmen are establishing mutual
relations. Armenian and Turkish businessmen are cooperating especially
in the market of Russia and Middle Asia. Armenian Diaspora and Turkish
businessmen have established serious relations recently. There are
a lot of representatives of Armenian Diaspora willing to meet and
cooperate with the businessmen from Anatolia.
- How much is the total volume of trade turnover between Armenian
and Turkish businessmen at the moment?
- This is not les than 100-120 million dollars. The nations of both
countries are interested in establishing economical relations. There
were large-scale trade relations between the Turks and Armenians
in the history of Ottoman too. Sale and purchase are mutually
at the moment. We have implemented some projects so far through
the organization I run. We are cooperating in a number of spheres,
especially energy, transportation, telecommunication, textile industry,
tourism.
- Have you achieved any positive results as the result of the
implementation of projects to normalize the relations between Armenia
and Turkey? Could you do any change to the public opinion in comparison
with the previous periods?
- Of course...Turkish community got to know Armenia, Armenians
again. They got to know that most of Armenians want to live in a
friendly atmosphere with Turkish people. Turkish community treats
the problems between Armenia and Azerbaijan more objectively;
wrong policies of both countries are given coverage by the press
obviously. It is accepted now that Russia's obvious policy for the
benefit of Armenia in previous years did nothing good.
Besides, Turkish public opinion advocates objective resolution of the
conflict. The economical difficulties faced by Anatolia province are
due to the closing of Turkey-Armenia borderlines. Azerbaijan is also
responsible as Armenia for Turkey facing this problem.
- Is Turkey which is facing hardships in regard to access to European
Union expected to take any positive step in the direction of opening
its borderlines with Armenia?
- European Union is expecting Turkey-Armenia borderlines to open
obviously.
There is no reason to prevent this. Thus, Europeans do not think
like Azerbaijanis regarding this matter. I mean, the conflict between
Azerbaijan and Armenia cannot be resolved by closing the borderlines,
as you see it has not been solved so far. Azerbaijan puts pressure
on Turkey for leaving the borderlines closed. However, changing of
this policy would ease Turkey and provide opportunity for finding more
active variant supported by the international community with regard to
the resolution of the conflict. If Robert Kocharyan and Ilham Aliyev
reach a consensus concerning the resolution of the conflict in Kazan
on 26 August the matter of opening the borderlines will come to the
agenda, of course.
- How does the international community assess the activity of TABDC?
- They think positively concerning our activity. We have relations
with a number of organizations. We have regular contacts with the
high-ranking officials of the important states. Even the UNO approves
the activity of the TABDC and supports it. Our functioning is indicated
as a model in other similar regions of the world.
- How do you evaluate the imprisonment of historical scientist Ektan
Turkyilmaz in Turkey?
- I regretted that Turkyilmaz was imprisoned, regrettably, Armenian
government made a great mistake here. The matter of releasing of
Turkyilmaz brought Turks and Armenians together. We all want him to
be set free.
Personally I do not believe that Turkyilmaz attempted to export
forbidden books from Armenia on purpose. Azerbaijanis, Turks and
Armenians can cooperate for releasing this scientist. The number of
those intending to investigate the events happened in 1915 began
to increase in the past few years. The number of those willing to
investigate these archives has increased. The step taken by Armenia
is not a right one.
- The official Ankara announced that it will not open its borderlines
with Armenia in the period when you are increasing your efforts. How
do such statements affect the activity of the TABDC?
- Of course, such statements are not approvable, Ankara stated that
its official position depends on the improvement in the resolution
of the Upper Garabagh conflict and waits for the step taken in this
direction. A consensus should be reached regarding this matter. The
step to be taken by Azerbaijan is also important as the step of
Armenia. Regrettably, it would not be right to announce the communities
of both countries about the steps to be taken. Do remember how the
radical nationalists criticized Turkey's supporting Annan plan on the
resolution of the Cyprus conflict. The communities of Azerbaijan and
Armenia are very responsible for this matter.
They have to support the step to be taken by the government and should
know that these steps will be the most right steps for the future of
the peoples even if they are not the most ideal ones.
- We would like to know your opinion concerning the so-called "genocide
of Armenians"...
- We do not deal with this matter, however, we want the both
sides to discuss the matter together, exchange their information
and documents. I treat this matter a little bit morally. I am
impressed when seeing that Armenians from Anatolia still preserve
the traditions of Anatolia though they lived in foreign countries
for 2-3 generations. Though I want to tell them "come back and turn
to your homes" inside me I know they will not return. God willing,
if Turkey-Armenia borderlines are opened thousands of immigrant
Armenians from Anatolia will visit Turkey, Armenia, even Azerbaijan
as tourists. It is very important for us to understand each other
morally in regard with the solution of the events happened in 1915.
- Do you believe the reconciliation of Turkish and Armenian peoples
and opening of the borders?
- I believe that, peace will be restored in the South Caucasus in
a shortest time and the borderlines will be opened. Azerbaijan and
Armenia should reach a consensus and Turkey-Armenia borderline should
be opened in order to reconcile. The meeting due to in Kazan is very
important in this matter, I believe that peace will be achieved soon
if no one prevents it. The most important problem will be the status of
the Upper Garabagh, of course. There must a formula for both countries
to reach a consensus. Can Turkish businessmen cooperate with the
businessmen of Upper Garabagh if there is no peace? Why not? There can
never be any obstacle for trade. But, Upper Garabagh is not recognized
by the international community. Therefore, no credit can be given to
this region, the goods exported her can not be insured, international
banks cannot function, there is no international guarantee for the
capital invested here. There are some other problems, only free trade
can be realized with this region unless the status of Upper Garabagh
is defined, but, of course, no one wants such trade. The situation
is the same in North Cyprus that is why no capital is invested to
this region. I think, tourism must be the first sector which will be
given impulse to by Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia jointly,
if peace is achieved and the borders are opened. The South Caucasus
has the richest tourism potential in the world; this region can
attract thousands of tourisms.
- The TABDC demonstrated the initiative on crossing the
Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan main export pipeline through Armenia ...Do you
still support your initiative?
-The TABDC called the pipeline to pass through Armenia as "Pipeline
of peace", it means, this pipeline will link us for many years. All
the countries, including Azerbaijan admit that the pipeline to pass
through Armenia is more effective economically. The construction of
Armenia section of the pipeline means 20% reduction in the financial
expenditures. We cannot say that this matter was decided fully,
there are pipelines remained from the USSR period in Armenia and it
is possible to reconstruct these pipelines by the account of very
little investment. As the result, Turkey and Azerbaijan might gain
a lot of incomes from these pipelines.
- How much is Turkish community ready for the opinions, ideas you
mention?
- Turkish public fed up with the political difficulties, we have Cyprus
problem which has been lasted for more than 30 years and expected to
last, the problems with Iraq and Syria have not been solved and the
problem in regard with Armenians has not been solved either. Turkish
public opinion would not judge Azerbaijan 7-8 years ago, but now the
public opinion is that Azerbaijan is not making enough efforts for
achieving peace.
- What do think, your efforts will result in when Armenia makes
territorial claims against Turkey?
- The territorial claims have no ground and I have not met any
Armenian working seriously in this direction. Minor part of the
Armenian Diaspora claim this, but these claims are not accepted
seriously by the community.
The borderlines of the two countries are guaranteed by the
international commitments and these claims will be removed after
the diplomatic relations between Turkey and Armenia are restored. As
the matter of fact, Azerbaijani Turks, Armenians and Anatolia Turks
must chose a target as it is in Europe in which there is no borders
and it is possible to move freely. Who can tell that one state has
a territorial claim against the other in Europe today?
Regrettably, such matters are only disputed in our region.
- There are Russian military bases in Armenia; don't you think that
this factor might endanger Turkish capital invested to the economy
of Armenia?
- Russia is not a threatening factor for Turkey; on the contrary,
Turkey can meet some needs of Russian military bases. The Turkish
are real professionals in meeting the needs of military objects. The
USA military bases have been in Turkey for a long time and the needs
of these bases have been met by Turkey. Russia intends to function
together with Turkey. Russia and Turkey can keep peace in the South
Caucasus jointly. The dividends gained by keeping peace in the South
Caucasus are many times better for Russia than the dividends gained
by the military bases.
- Have you been put any pressures by the government and NGOs of
Azerbaijan with regard to your efforts in the direction of normalizing
the relations with Armenia?
- We want to establish peace between Armenians and Turkish people
and we believe that our activity will be the foundation of peace
and tranquility in the whole South Caucasus. On the other hand,
we do not treat the problem like Armenia or Turkey. Therefore, we
have been pressured by the organizations that interpret the problem
meeting the interests of Azerbaijan. We always tell them to take into
consideration the interests of Turkey too.
- Does the Foreign Ministry of Turkey support your activity?
- We are not linked with the government; we are NGO that tries
to normalize Turkish-Armenian relations. We have nothing against
Turkey, Armenia or Azerbaijan. Turkish Foreign Ministry is aware of
our activity.
- Are you supported by any people or organization from Azerbaijan?
- No Azerbaijani or organization from Azerbaijan judged us when we
explained our action plan .On the contrary, there are many persons and
organizations that want us to include Azerbaijan into our activity
circle. We are going to expand our action circle by the account of
Azerbaijan and Georgia in a shortest time.