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Transcript of Exclusive Armenia TV April 24th Interview
with Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian
Interviewed by Paul Chaderjian for Armenia TV
Airdate: Monday, April 24, 2006 @ 9:00 PM Yerevan / 9:00 AM Los Angeles
Armenia TV: This is the 91st year that we commemorate the Genocide. What
stands out in your mind as you think about this process?
Minister Oskanian: It is humbling to think that today, the children of the
survivors and the Government of Armenia, both, have been transformed from
victims to activists working with the international community to right a
historical wrong, to acknowledge a crime against humanity and to advocate
prevention of such crimes in the future. We have the opportunity to do all
of that because this process has evolved in ways that are both surprising
and gratifying. Look at the history of the evolution: Up to 1965, there was
no talk of recognition, there were only tortured, victimized survivors.
>From 1965 to the 1980s, survivors, their descendants, a handful of political
activists, and a few lone scholars, attempted to focus the world's attention
on what was almost uniformly referred to as the 'alleged' genocide.
Beginning in the 1990s, things changed dramatically. There were various
overlapping factors -- A younger generation of survivors' descendants was
more vocal and confident in using its political influence. The flow of
information about yet new genocides piqued the interest of international
scholars who also began to study the Armenian Genocide. As Europe and the US
became more engaged in Turkey's modernization and inclusion in Euro-Atlantic
structures, Turkey's own democratization process brought this taboo topic to
the surface. Today, in its search for European Union membership, Turkey is
having to deal history and memory and identity. And of course, the existence
of an Armenian state means that we can raise these issues at an official
government level.
There can be no doubt that our search for genocide recognition has become
internationalized. It is not an Armenian claim any longer. Today, this is an
acknowledged historic reality by most of the scholarly world, and by most
major media and journalists. Further, the international political community,
too, knows well what happened in 1915, and together, we are seeking ways to
enable more open discussion of why and how the Genocide happened, and its
implications for members of the world community today - and most of all for
Turks and Armenians.
Armenia TV: Some think it is surprising, and perhaps even unwise, for the
Government of Armenia to be engaged in this effort to achieve Genocide
recognition, given its vulnerability. The Turks, too, would like to portray
this as the Diaspora's cause, and keep wishing that the Armenian government
would put this matter aside.
Minister Oskanian: The Genocide affected every single Armenian. The
responsibility to right the memory of that wrong rests with all of us. The
Armenian Government has the moral responsibility to speak about the Genocide
of the Armenians, and to call for Genocide recognition. This responsibility
is one we fully acknowledge. In fact, the active involvement of the Armenian
Government and its representatives has also played a role in the progress of
the recognition process. The podiums and forums that are available to the
representatives of a state are many and we use them to make our case to the
international community. At the same time, as a responsible member of that
community, we know that we cannot make Genocide recognition a pre-condition
to our relationship with the Republic of Turkey. The irony is that we, the
survivors and the victims of Genocide don't make normal relations
conditional on its recognition, yet the Turkish side often suggests that
Armenia should put Genocide recognition aside if it wants normal relations
with Turkey. Clearly we cannot. The international community today considers
the threat of Genocide a very real 21st century challenge. Our
responsibility, together with the Diaspora, is to speak out against past and
future uses of Genocide as a political tool by states.
Armenia TV: What is the answer to the repeated charge that Armenians
continue to focus on the past, that Armenians are trapped in the past?
Minister Oskanian: One might accuse us of being trapped in the past if we
made the present conditional on the past. But we do not. Instead, we are
saying we must learn about the past, remember it, understand it, and move
on. Armenians understand that the present is connected to the past, it's the
consequence of the past. Otherwise why teach history? This is the purpose
of learning and teaching history. The Turkish government, on the other hand,
is demanding that today's relations be based on a specific interpretation of
the past. Turkey's authorities and Turkish society do not fully comprehend
or recognize what happened in the last days of the Ottoman Empire, why it
happened, and they have not come to terms with those implications. They are
the ones who are trapped in the past and are not ready to move on. There is
perhaps a fear that entering this realm, embarking on a relationship with
Armenians will place them in a morally uncomfortable and undesirable
situation, and that they will be held responsible for those events. I cannot
repeat this often enough: Armenians are able to distinguish between the
perpetrators and today's Turkey. But Turks themselves must be willing to do
what is morally right and reject and denounce the crimes of the Ottoman
Empire. Otherwise, today's denial means implicit endorsement or acceptance
of those past crimes.
Armenia TV: Yet they are far from denouncing those crimes. On the contrary,
they are using their educational system to teach that Armenians killed
Turks, their historians are digging up bones and saying these are the bones
of Turks killed by Armenians.
Minister Oskanian: Justifying, even revering the genocidal state policy of
one regime has become the state policy of another regime. Denial is state
policy, just as genocide is state policy. It is today's Turkish state that
is wasting money and credibility on denying, distorting, dismissing serious
crimes against humanity committed during the Ottoman years. Not only are
they denying history, they are also legislating denial by making it
difficult, if not impossible, to actually dig into this painful issue and
come face to face with difficult historic and political realities. It is
safe to say that Turkish society - writers, historians, journalists - are in
fact seeking and trying to reach their own conclusions about what really
happened. It is the state that insists on rejecting those questions even.
The people of Turkey are searching for answers. The memoir of US Ambassador
Henry Morgenthau, the British Blue Book, the works of Vahakn Dadrian and
Peter Balakian can be found in Turkish, in Turkey. We welcome this, because
before there can be dialogue with Armenians, there must be internal
questioning and dialogue in Turkey.
Armenia TV: Will there really be dialogue between Turkey and Armenia? What
happened to the Erdogan-Kocharian dialogue about dialogue?
We want there to be dialogue about all of the issues that stand between us.
Prime Minister Erdogan had suggested a commission to study history. But that
suggestion comes at a time when the use of the term 'genocide' or even
reference to certain facts and events in Turkish history are legally
punishable. How can such a proposal be taken seriously? Further, the
proposal is to convene a commission composed of historians from two
countries with a closed border between them. In the absence of any relations
whatsoever, in a political, social, economic vacuum, a commission is to be
convened to thrash out issues and events that can't be discussed? That is
why President Kocharian's response was that this kind of offer can be taken
seriously only if there is som semblance of normalcy between our two
countries. Then, discussions on all other aspects of our relations,
including the border and genocide, can and should be carried out. We have
not received an official response to that suggestion, but we still hope it
will come. It has been nearly a century that we have had this impasse
between our peoples and our societies. We don't want to spend another
century trying to unravel this knot. Instead, we want our peoples to have
the opportunities to have new experiences to replace the old ones. The
longer we wait for this to happen, the longer it takes for Turks to
repudiate those acts, the more today's Turks and yesterday's Ottomans will
become synonymous in people's minds. On the other hand, with repudiation of
those acts, with recognition of the crimes of the past, we can move on to a
dialogue of reconciliation. That is the mandate of the 21st century, that is
what our ancestors who did live together for centuries would want.
Armenia TV: Minister Oskanian, thank you very much for taking the time to
talk with Armenia TV. We look forward to having you visit again.
Minister Oskanian: Thank you.
with Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian
Interviewed by Paul Chaderjian for Armenia TV
Airdate: Monday, April 24, 2006 @ 9:00 PM Yerevan / 9:00 AM Los Angeles
Armenia TV: This is the 91st year that we commemorate the Genocide. What
stands out in your mind as you think about this process?
Minister Oskanian: It is humbling to think that today, the children of the
survivors and the Government of Armenia, both, have been transformed from
victims to activists working with the international community to right a
historical wrong, to acknowledge a crime against humanity and to advocate
prevention of such crimes in the future. We have the opportunity to do all
of that because this process has evolved in ways that are both surprising
and gratifying. Look at the history of the evolution: Up to 1965, there was
no talk of recognition, there were only tortured, victimized survivors.
>From 1965 to the 1980s, survivors, their descendants, a handful of political
activists, and a few lone scholars, attempted to focus the world's attention
on what was almost uniformly referred to as the 'alleged' genocide.
Beginning in the 1990s, things changed dramatically. There were various
overlapping factors -- A younger generation of survivors' descendants was
more vocal and confident in using its political influence. The flow of
information about yet new genocides piqued the interest of international
scholars who also began to study the Armenian Genocide. As Europe and the US
became more engaged in Turkey's modernization and inclusion in Euro-Atlantic
structures, Turkey's own democratization process brought this taboo topic to
the surface. Today, in its search for European Union membership, Turkey is
having to deal history and memory and identity. And of course, the existence
of an Armenian state means that we can raise these issues at an official
government level.
There can be no doubt that our search for genocide recognition has become
internationalized. It is not an Armenian claim any longer. Today, this is an
acknowledged historic reality by most of the scholarly world, and by most
major media and journalists. Further, the international political community,
too, knows well what happened in 1915, and together, we are seeking ways to
enable more open discussion of why and how the Genocide happened, and its
implications for members of the world community today - and most of all for
Turks and Armenians.
Armenia TV: Some think it is surprising, and perhaps even unwise, for the
Government of Armenia to be engaged in this effort to achieve Genocide
recognition, given its vulnerability. The Turks, too, would like to portray
this as the Diaspora's cause, and keep wishing that the Armenian government
would put this matter aside.
Minister Oskanian: The Genocide affected every single Armenian. The
responsibility to right the memory of that wrong rests with all of us. The
Armenian Government has the moral responsibility to speak about the Genocide
of the Armenians, and to call for Genocide recognition. This responsibility
is one we fully acknowledge. In fact, the active involvement of the Armenian
Government and its representatives has also played a role in the progress of
the recognition process. The podiums and forums that are available to the
representatives of a state are many and we use them to make our case to the
international community. At the same time, as a responsible member of that
community, we know that we cannot make Genocide recognition a pre-condition
to our relationship with the Republic of Turkey. The irony is that we, the
survivors and the victims of Genocide don't make normal relations
conditional on its recognition, yet the Turkish side often suggests that
Armenia should put Genocide recognition aside if it wants normal relations
with Turkey. Clearly we cannot. The international community today considers
the threat of Genocide a very real 21st century challenge. Our
responsibility, together with the Diaspora, is to speak out against past and
future uses of Genocide as a political tool by states.
Armenia TV: What is the answer to the repeated charge that Armenians
continue to focus on the past, that Armenians are trapped in the past?
Minister Oskanian: One might accuse us of being trapped in the past if we
made the present conditional on the past. But we do not. Instead, we are
saying we must learn about the past, remember it, understand it, and move
on. Armenians understand that the present is connected to the past, it's the
consequence of the past. Otherwise why teach history? This is the purpose
of learning and teaching history. The Turkish government, on the other hand,
is demanding that today's relations be based on a specific interpretation of
the past. Turkey's authorities and Turkish society do not fully comprehend
or recognize what happened in the last days of the Ottoman Empire, why it
happened, and they have not come to terms with those implications. They are
the ones who are trapped in the past and are not ready to move on. There is
perhaps a fear that entering this realm, embarking on a relationship with
Armenians will place them in a morally uncomfortable and undesirable
situation, and that they will be held responsible for those events. I cannot
repeat this often enough: Armenians are able to distinguish between the
perpetrators and today's Turkey. But Turks themselves must be willing to do
what is morally right and reject and denounce the crimes of the Ottoman
Empire. Otherwise, today's denial means implicit endorsement or acceptance
of those past crimes.
Armenia TV: Yet they are far from denouncing those crimes. On the contrary,
they are using their educational system to teach that Armenians killed
Turks, their historians are digging up bones and saying these are the bones
of Turks killed by Armenians.
Minister Oskanian: Justifying, even revering the genocidal state policy of
one regime has become the state policy of another regime. Denial is state
policy, just as genocide is state policy. It is today's Turkish state that
is wasting money and credibility on denying, distorting, dismissing serious
crimes against humanity committed during the Ottoman years. Not only are
they denying history, they are also legislating denial by making it
difficult, if not impossible, to actually dig into this painful issue and
come face to face with difficult historic and political realities. It is
safe to say that Turkish society - writers, historians, journalists - are in
fact seeking and trying to reach their own conclusions about what really
happened. It is the state that insists on rejecting those questions even.
The people of Turkey are searching for answers. The memoir of US Ambassador
Henry Morgenthau, the British Blue Book, the works of Vahakn Dadrian and
Peter Balakian can be found in Turkish, in Turkey. We welcome this, because
before there can be dialogue with Armenians, there must be internal
questioning and dialogue in Turkey.
Armenia TV: Will there really be dialogue between Turkey and Armenia? What
happened to the Erdogan-Kocharian dialogue about dialogue?
We want there to be dialogue about all of the issues that stand between us.
Prime Minister Erdogan had suggested a commission to study history. But that
suggestion comes at a time when the use of the term 'genocide' or even
reference to certain facts and events in Turkish history are legally
punishable. How can such a proposal be taken seriously? Further, the
proposal is to convene a commission composed of historians from two
countries with a closed border between them. In the absence of any relations
whatsoever, in a political, social, economic vacuum, a commission is to be
convened to thrash out issues and events that can't be discussed? That is
why President Kocharian's response was that this kind of offer can be taken
seriously only if there is som semblance of normalcy between our two
countries. Then, discussions on all other aspects of our relations,
including the border and genocide, can and should be carried out. We have
not received an official response to that suggestion, but we still hope it
will come. It has been nearly a century that we have had this impasse
between our peoples and our societies. We don't want to spend another
century trying to unravel this knot. Instead, we want our peoples to have
the opportunities to have new experiences to replace the old ones. The
longer we wait for this to happen, the longer it takes for Turks to
repudiate those acts, the more today's Turks and yesterday's Ottomans will
become synonymous in people's minds. On the other hand, with repudiation of
those acts, with recognition of the crimes of the past, we can move on to a
dialogue of reconciliation. That is the mandate of the 21st century, that is
what our ancestors who did live together for centuries would want.
Armenia TV: Minister Oskanian, thank you very much for taking the time to
talk with Armenia TV. We look forward to having you visit again.
Minister Oskanian: Thank you.