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Azerbaijan: Armenian Monuments:
Debate in the House of Lords: Question on destructions in Nakhichevan
11.20 am
Baroness Cox asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will make representations to the Government of Azerbaijan
about the reported destruction of ancient Armenian monuments of cultural
importance by Azeri troops in Nakhichevan.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are aware
of and concerned by Armenian reports of the destruction and desecration of
certain monuments and artefacts in Azerbaijan. We are also aware of and
concerned by reports of the destruction of Azerbaijani cultural artefacts in
territories under Armenian control.
We deplore such actions, no matter where or by whom they are committed.
But the primary concern at this stage should be not the apportionment of
blame but effective action to ensure the preservation of cultural and
historical monuments on both sides of the current dispute. We consider this
an issue for UNESCO to resolve and we are supporting its efforts to find a
solution. We look to the Governments of Armenia and Azerbaijan, with the
active engagement of UNESCO, to comply with their international commitments
with regard to the safeguarding of cultural heritage.
Baroness Cox: My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. I assure her
that, if there were comparable evidence of widespread systematic destruction
of Azeri cultural heritage by Armenians, I should be the first to join her
in condemning that, but, to my knowledge, there is no such evidence. Is the
noble Baroness aware that I was in Nakhichevan when Azerbaijan was using
tanks to shell Armenian villages, forcing Armenians to flee their homeland
and their precious cultural
20 July 2006 : Column 1406
heritage of thousands of ancient, exquisite stone crosses and dozens of
churches, which have now been destroyed? Will the Government urge Azerbaijan
to allow uninhibited access by international organisations to assess the
extent of that destruction?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, first, I pay tribute to the noble
Baroness's long-standing close interest in Armenia. We would urge both the
Azerbaijani and Armenian authorities to co-operate with UNESCO and the
Council of Europe in their investigations into allegations of destruction of
cultural sites in Nakhichevan and/or Nagorno-Karabakh. That includes
allowing uninhibited access to missions from those organisations.
Lord Archer of Sandwell: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the
destruction of the monuments is not merely a heartless act of spite against
the Armenian community but that it diminishes the world's cultural heritage
and is the legitimate concern of the international community? Do the
Government support the call by the Council of Europe to permit a delegation
of scientists, working with the International Councilon Monuments and Sites,
to visit the area and report on its findings?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I entirely agree that it is not
merely an act of spite-it is much more important-and that it is an issue for
international organisations, which is precisely why we support the actions
of UNESCO. The Government support the call by the Council of Europe.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, has there been any response from the Government of
Azerbaijan to the proposal by the European Parliament of 16 February
concerning the deliberate and systematic destruction of the Armenian
cultural heritage in Nakhichevan? What is the Government's view of the
proposals, which are being discussed in the European neighbourhood policy
context, that the European Commission and Council should facilitate the
return of the people who were ethnically cleansed from the area of
Nakhichevan from 1991 onwards and that they should incorporate in the action
plan a clause protecting the few remaining sites from destruction?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I am aware of the resolution of the
European Parliament of 16 February. We actively support the growing
relationship that Azerbaijan has with the European Union through the
European neighbourhood policy. The EU and Azerbaijan are currently
negotiating the content of an action plan. Whether or not the clause to
which the noble Lord referred is being actively discussed, I do not know,
but I shall certainly find out. I undertake to inform the noble Lord.
Baroness Knight of Collingtree: My Lords, the Minister said that the
Government support the actions of UNESCO. What are the actions of UNESCO?
20 July 2006 : Column 1407
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, UNESCO is working with both sides
to try to ensure that damage is not inflicted on this wonderful cultural
heritage. UNESCO is trying to ensure that a mission goes into Azerbaijan to
discuss these things. It is working at an international level, trying to
bring people together and trying to stop the destruction of the monuments.
Lord Clarke of Hampstead: My Lords, my noble friend has obviously given
some comfort to the House by saying that the Government are aware of what
has been happening with regard to the destruction of these very valuable and
unique pieces of art. Whether talks take place with UNESCO or anyone else,
will my noble friend find out what has happened to the thousands of stone
crosses that are missing or have been destroyed since the takeover of that
area? Will she please go further and ask the Government of Azerbaijan to
allow Armenians to return to Nakhichevan to rebuild their cultural monuments
and restore their cultural heritage?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I shall certainly make the point to
the appropriate people and try to find out what has happened to the
thousands of stone crosses mentioned by my noble friend. Cultural heritage
is being destroyed in both Azerbaijan and Armenia. We call on both those
countries to take appropriate action and stop inflicting damage on these
things. We call on both sides to act.
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, there seems little doubt that Azeri
troops have inflicted deliberate-and apparently officially
sanctioned-cultural damage on these grave sites, concreting them over and
deliberately setting out to destroy them. Not only is that bad in every
cultural sense, but it obviously does not help to resolve the
Nagorno-Karabakh dispute.
Might we not go a little further than looking to the Azeris to halt their
actions or hoping that UNESCO will do something? Could we not use very much
stronger words to the Azeri Government and say that this is not helping the
peace we all want to see in that part of the word and that it is putting an
ugly stain on the reputation of Azerbaijan?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I entirely agree that this is not
helping in either Azerbaijan or Armenia. The noble Lord is absolutely right
to say that this has a direct impact on the Nagorno-Karabakh dispute. It is
important that discussions are taking place to try to resolve that conflict.
We are working to do so with people like the Minsk group. In doing that, we
must take account of the damage inflicted on the cultural sites, because it
is part of a much wider problem.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, may I ask my noble friend about the
state of the memorial in Baku to the British and Commonwealth soldiers of
Dunster Force, who died towards the end of the First World War while
attempting to cut off the supply of oil to the central powers? Is she aware
that the memorial was due to be opening by His Royal Highness the Duke of
Kent in September 2003, but
20 July 2006 : Column 1408
the ceremony was abandoned at the last moment and the site is now terribly
neglected and vandalised? I declare an interest as chairman of the All-Party
Group on War Graves and Battlefield Heritage.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I am aware of the site and that His
Royal Highness was invited to open it but was unable to do so because it was
vandalised. We have been assured by the Azerbaijanis that they will give it
the protection it deserves, and we are not aware of any further damage since
2003.
Debate in the House of Lords: Question on destructions in Nakhichevan
11.20 am
Baroness Cox asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will make representations to the Government of Azerbaijan
about the reported destruction of ancient Armenian monuments of cultural
importance by Azeri troops in Nakhichevan.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are aware
of and concerned by Armenian reports of the destruction and desecration of
certain monuments and artefacts in Azerbaijan. We are also aware of and
concerned by reports of the destruction of Azerbaijani cultural artefacts in
territories under Armenian control.
We deplore such actions, no matter where or by whom they are committed.
But the primary concern at this stage should be not the apportionment of
blame but effective action to ensure the preservation of cultural and
historical monuments on both sides of the current dispute. We consider this
an issue for UNESCO to resolve and we are supporting its efforts to find a
solution. We look to the Governments of Armenia and Azerbaijan, with the
active engagement of UNESCO, to comply with their international commitments
with regard to the safeguarding of cultural heritage.
Baroness Cox: My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. I assure her
that, if there were comparable evidence of widespread systematic destruction
of Azeri cultural heritage by Armenians, I should be the first to join her
in condemning that, but, to my knowledge, there is no such evidence. Is the
noble Baroness aware that I was in Nakhichevan when Azerbaijan was using
tanks to shell Armenian villages, forcing Armenians to flee their homeland
and their precious cultural
20 July 2006 : Column 1406
heritage of thousands of ancient, exquisite stone crosses and dozens of
churches, which have now been destroyed? Will the Government urge Azerbaijan
to allow uninhibited access by international organisations to assess the
extent of that destruction?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, first, I pay tribute to the noble
Baroness's long-standing close interest in Armenia. We would urge both the
Azerbaijani and Armenian authorities to co-operate with UNESCO and the
Council of Europe in their investigations into allegations of destruction of
cultural sites in Nakhichevan and/or Nagorno-Karabakh. That includes
allowing uninhibited access to missions from those organisations.
Lord Archer of Sandwell: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the
destruction of the monuments is not merely a heartless act of spite against
the Armenian community but that it diminishes the world's cultural heritage
and is the legitimate concern of the international community? Do the
Government support the call by the Council of Europe to permit a delegation
of scientists, working with the International Councilon Monuments and Sites,
to visit the area and report on its findings?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I entirely agree that it is not
merely an act of spite-it is much more important-and that it is an issue for
international organisations, which is precisely why we support the actions
of UNESCO. The Government support the call by the Council of Europe.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, has there been any response from the Government of
Azerbaijan to the proposal by the European Parliament of 16 February
concerning the deliberate and systematic destruction of the Armenian
cultural heritage in Nakhichevan? What is the Government's view of the
proposals, which are being discussed in the European neighbourhood policy
context, that the European Commission and Council should facilitate the
return of the people who were ethnically cleansed from the area of
Nakhichevan from 1991 onwards and that they should incorporate in the action
plan a clause protecting the few remaining sites from destruction?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I am aware of the resolution of the
European Parliament of 16 February. We actively support the growing
relationship that Azerbaijan has with the European Union through the
European neighbourhood policy. The EU and Azerbaijan are currently
negotiating the content of an action plan. Whether or not the clause to
which the noble Lord referred is being actively discussed, I do not know,
but I shall certainly find out. I undertake to inform the noble Lord.
Baroness Knight of Collingtree: My Lords, the Minister said that the
Government support the actions of UNESCO. What are the actions of UNESCO?
20 July 2006 : Column 1407
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, UNESCO is working with both sides
to try to ensure that damage is not inflicted on this wonderful cultural
heritage. UNESCO is trying to ensure that a mission goes into Azerbaijan to
discuss these things. It is working at an international level, trying to
bring people together and trying to stop the destruction of the monuments.
Lord Clarke of Hampstead: My Lords, my noble friend has obviously given
some comfort to the House by saying that the Government are aware of what
has been happening with regard to the destruction of these very valuable and
unique pieces of art. Whether talks take place with UNESCO or anyone else,
will my noble friend find out what has happened to the thousands of stone
crosses that are missing or have been destroyed since the takeover of that
area? Will she please go further and ask the Government of Azerbaijan to
allow Armenians to return to Nakhichevan to rebuild their cultural monuments
and restore their cultural heritage?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I shall certainly make the point to
the appropriate people and try to find out what has happened to the
thousands of stone crosses mentioned by my noble friend. Cultural heritage
is being destroyed in both Azerbaijan and Armenia. We call on both those
countries to take appropriate action and stop inflicting damage on these
things. We call on both sides to act.
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, there seems little doubt that Azeri
troops have inflicted deliberate-and apparently officially
sanctioned-cultural damage on these grave sites, concreting them over and
deliberately setting out to destroy them. Not only is that bad in every
cultural sense, but it obviously does not help to resolve the
Nagorno-Karabakh dispute.
Might we not go a little further than looking to the Azeris to halt their
actions or hoping that UNESCO will do something? Could we not use very much
stronger words to the Azeri Government and say that this is not helping the
peace we all want to see in that part of the word and that it is putting an
ugly stain on the reputation of Azerbaijan?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I entirely agree that this is not
helping in either Azerbaijan or Armenia. The noble Lord is absolutely right
to say that this has a direct impact on the Nagorno-Karabakh dispute. It is
important that discussions are taking place to try to resolve that conflict.
We are working to do so with people like the Minsk group. In doing that, we
must take account of the damage inflicted on the cultural sites, because it
is part of a much wider problem.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, may I ask my noble friend about the
state of the memorial in Baku to the British and Commonwealth soldiers of
Dunster Force, who died towards the end of the First World War while
attempting to cut off the supply of oil to the central powers? Is she aware
that the memorial was due to be opening by His Royal Highness the Duke of
Kent in September 2003, but
20 July 2006 : Column 1408
the ceremony was abandoned at the last moment and the site is now terribly
neglected and vandalised? I declare an interest as chairman of the All-Party
Group on War Graves and Battlefield Heritage.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I am aware of the site and that His
Royal Highness was invited to open it but was unable to do so because it was
vandalised. We have been assured by the Azerbaijanis that they will give it
the protection it deserves, and we are not aware of any further damage since
2003.