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'TURKISH SOLDIERS MAY FACE RESISTANCE IN LEBANON'
Nursun Erel
The New Anatolian, Turkey
Aug. 28, 2006
Parliament Foreign Affairs Commission head Mehmet Dulger speaks to TNA
Turkey is preparing to send Turkish soldiers to join the UN
peacekeeping efforts in Lebanon, and some say this will be a
prestigious task for Turkey. But what about the risks? Why hasn't
this vital issue been debated in Parliament?
I had such questions in my head while going to meet Mehmet Dulger,
chairman of Parliament's Foreign Affairs Commission. His office in
the Parliament building was still under renovation, but we found two
comfortable chairs to sit on and talk about the hot issues. Here's
what he had to say to us:
TNA: Being here, I must be luckier than the Israeli ambassador,
because according to rumor you turned down his request for a meeting.
DULGER: In fact I'd really like to talk to him, not only the Israeli
ambassador but also l the Lebanese and Palestinian ambassadors. But
as you see, the weather's been too hot recently and our office is
undergoing renovations.
TNA: How do you see the situation in Lebanon right now?
DULGER: Well, I saw some cartoons in today's newspapers. One of them
wonderfully described the situation, showing how the Americans are
trying to get the best advantage from the situation.
TNA: How do you see the opposition to sending Turkish soldiers to
the area?
DULGER: Actually the situation is extremely complex in the Middle
East now and that's why most of the crises there are unpredictable.
Especially the Lebanese state mechanism is set up on a very complex
ethnic base. So there are risks and opportunities waiting for Turkish
soldiers there. What are the opportunities? Because of the rejected
March 1, 2003 resolution (which would have allowed U.S. troops to be
stationed on Turkish soil for the imminent Iraq invasion) Turkey had
to stay out of developments in the Mideast, but now there's a chance
of getting back in the game.
Risks in Lebanon
TNA: What are the risks?
DULGER: Lebanon has a very complex ethnic situation, so even for a
peacekeeping mission, Turkish soldiers may face strong opposition.
Because we're Sunni, but the Lebanese are mostly Shiite. Additionally
there are all kind of extremist minorities in Lebanon like the
Armenians and Greek Orthodox groups. They would never be happy to
see a Turkish presence in Lebanon. So this is a vital decision for
Turkey and it has to be considered very seriously.
TNA: How do you see UN Resolution 1701 and the related documents? Are
they clear enough about describing the peacekeeping mission?
DULGER: First of all things happened too late, that's why the urging
parties lost a great deal of prestige in the eyes of the victims. And
also the resolution is far from being unbiased, since it openly
reflects U.S. views. But we have to admit that if U.S. hadn't insisted
this would never have happened.
TNA: Could you elaborate on that?
DULGER: Well, it seems that this is a kind of a war which was almost
predestined, developed and strategically designed long ago. The U.S.
is among the players and it's clear this is a part of its project to
reshape the Middle East. So what do we do now? Hundreds of civilians,
even children, have been killed in this war, most of the infrastructure
is destroyed, none of the kidnapped (Israeli) soldiers have been
returned, Hezbollah hasn't been disarmed, its ties with Iran and
Syria haven't been cut, and on the contrary now it's stronger than
before. I'm afraid similar resistance will be used by others too.
Parliament will debate deployment
TNA: Are you satisfied with the information given by the government
on the UN resolution?
DULGER: So far I haven't gotten much detailed information either on
UN Resolution 1701 or about our government's policies. So I don't
know what kind of advantages there are in taking part in this project.
TNA: According to the opposition, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan
is purposely avoiding detailed discussion around the resolution. It's
said he especially doesn't want the issue to be dealt with in
Parliament, because there's a concern something could happen among
AK Party members like with the March 2003 resolution. What do you
think about this?
DULGER: I don't think so, because there's no decision (on deployment)
yet. Without such a decision and without any document to talk about,
what will we debate in Parliament? First we have to wait for the
final decision, this way or that. If they decide to join UNIFIL,
the motion will certainly be debated in Parliament.
TNA: But we've heard some foreign leaders claim the Turkish government
has already declared its willingness to join the force, so isn't it
strange that we still don't know the final decision of the government?
DULGER: Some journalists asked me whether we will send Turkish soldiers
to the area or not. But I'm not the man to answer that question.
TNA: If Turkish soldiers are sent to the area, do you think such a
gesture will help repair the Turkish-American relationship, which
is still chilly since the March 2003 resolution was rejected by
Parliament?
DULGER: Let's look at the details of what's happening in the area.
First of all an indirect war between Iran and U.S. is escalating,
there are the tensions between the ethnic groups, the U.S. has an
imperial project in the area, and Iran is trying to emphasize its
dominance there too. Supported by the U.S., Israel claims to balance
the regional politics. Syria can't stand with Lebanon without their
obedience. And there's the huge Iraq problem.
So that picture is important for Turkey for different reasons. First,
the PKK (terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party) is a vital issue for us,
and its command mechanism and sources of legitimacy are in Iraq. So
as long as we can't accomplish our goals in the region concerning the
PKK, this becomes more risky for us, because a populist nationalism
is on the rise, which I think is very dangerous.
Another negative regional development is that Turkish and American
interests are more and more at odds. I mean our policies and theirs on
issues like the PKK, Israeli aggression, and the stand towards Iran
and Syria aren't parallel. So once we go hand in hand with the U.S.,
our other interests are being harmed. The U.S. will stay here for 50
years at most but our neighbors will always be there. So we have to
find common ground here.
If someone else comes to power in the US
TNA: Due to the different administrations, even U.S. regional policies
can change, don't you think?
DULGER: If another administration comes and changes its policies,
what will happen then? Because in changing our stand, we will be
taking great risks in the region. So all these factors are extremely
important and we have to check them all very carefully. Many Turks
support Hezbollah's cause in Lebanon, so they say: What will we do
there? Will we protect Israeli soldiers? Or try to take arms away
from Hezbollah members? I was recently in Antalya, and many people
came to me asking those questions.
TNA: How do you see other regional governments' stances?
DULGER: No one really knows what kind of risks there are. Also there's
another issue, namely that the West is downplaying the victims of
war. Do you know how many casualties there have been in Iraq? We don't
know yet how many Iraqis have died so far, but everyone knows the
number of American casualties. Also the number of Lebanese casualties
isn't known, but everyone knows how many Israelis died. So it's clear
there's a great prejudice against the people of the Middle East. We
must change this first. After Sept. 11, the West got paranoid about
terror. But what about us? What about the PKK? Is the PKK a terror
group? If they say yes, than they have to push for the necessary
steps to be taken too.
TNA: How do you see the PKK coordinator expected to be appointed soon
by the U.S.?
DULGER: Let's wait and see his positions and words. Because during
her visit, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice saw the Turkish
determination on the PKK issue, so they felt the need to take this
stand. It's a very vexing situation that there's such cooperation
among the Kurds in northern Iraq. Even though it's crystal clear
that the PKK is provoking all kind of terror actions against Turkey,
Iraqi leaders Jalal Talabani and Massoud Barzani let them survive,
because they are also Kurds.
TNA: Everyone seems to be obsessed about the Israel-Lebanon war,
but there are other hot issues too. How do you see Turkey's European
Union accession process?
DULGER: Normally we deal with issues as they come up, but I'm not
sure if we're ready for the important days we're going to be facing
soon. The new EU progress report on Turkey will be discussed next
month in Brussels and there are about 437 different proposals to
make changes to the report. Some of them are against our interests,
and some are in favor, so I propose our party puts together a group
of 20 deputies from Parliament and let them lobby in Brussels.
TNA: Is there any reason why this can't happen?
DULGER: No but we have to do this as soon as possible, otherwise
those negative proposals will be a headache for Turkey. For example
the Croatians don't have any problem with their accession but they
organized themselves so well, yet with so many problems we fail to act.
The Cyprus issue and flirting
TNA: How do you see developments on the Cyprus issue?
TNA: Well, our Greek Cypriot friends must stop talking on behalf
of the Turkish Cypriots. If things go on like this, separation will
become unavoidable. They must give up their unrealistic dreams. Just
like trying to flirt with a young girl, if you keep on pressing but
she turns you down again and again, you can say it 50 times but you
can't say it a 51st time, at that point you have to leave her alone.
TNA: Let's discuss domestic politics too. When do you expect the next
general elections?
DULGER: I haven't checked the calendar, but any Sunday of November
2007.
Presidential election
TNA: So that means you don't expect early elections, but many people
believe that in this case the presidential election set for May 2007
will cause fierce debate.
DULGER: I can't see the logic behind such an argument. Why do they
question the legitimacy of an elected president? Let's look at the
last three elections. What was the number of the votes for previous
presidents and what are we talking about now? When I was a member of
the True Path Party (DYP), we opposed President Turgut Ozal because
he didn't really represent Turkish society; his votes were sharply
declining in both general and local elections. But we don't have any
problem like that. So now I have only one wish: that the new president
be elected from among the deputies of this Parliament. I get the sense
that even Mr. Deniz Baykal (main opposition Republican People's Party,
CHP, leader) is close to such a dialogue with the AK Party.
TNA: If the AK Party decides who the next president is, some people
are concerned that its "hidden agenda" will come out. This is because
then most high court members and university rectors will be appointed
by this new AK Party-origin president, and the headscarf ban could
also be overturned. How do you respond to this?
DULGER: I totally reject these stupid allegations. There's no
such hidden agenda. I hear what they say, they even speculate that
Sharia law could be applied or all the women will become headscarved
overnight. But this is total nonsense. If I had any thought like that
I wouldn't be sitting here, and if anybody tried to do that I'd fight
them till the very end. This is the paranoia of some circles. So how
do they explain that AK Party came to power with all the values those
circles brand it with? And more importantly, how do they explain the
stable term AK Party government up to now?
TNA: How do you see the developments on the right? For instance,
former Premier Mesut Yilmaz is back in politics, and there are efforts
to unify right-wing parties. Do you think anything will come of this?
DULGER: Most of them are my good old friends, but unfortunately
I don't expect them to succeed. Because it's quite clear that all
their efforts are for certain individuals and groups around them,
instead of new political dimensions.
Bring the nails
During our interview Dulger told a joke and said, "This is where we
plan to send our troops."
"Up in heaven, Jesus was so bored one day so he said to God, 'Father,
it's so dull living in paradise all the time, I want to do something.
I see down on earth things aren't going well, especially in Africa,
thousands of people are dying of starvation, let me go down and help
them.' God said okay, so Jesus went down to Africa and went into a
market and told the owner, 'Hi there, all your shelves are full of
food but outside the people are starving, let's give all that food
away to the people. Don't worry; I'll fill your shelves tomorrow with
twice as much as there is now.' So the food was given away to the
people. The next day the shelves had twice as much food. Then they
did it again and Jesus kept on filling the shelves. In a few days,
the starvation ended in Africa and Jesus went back to heaven with
satisfaction. He went on living like that for a while, but then he
again got bored with the routine and once again asked God: 'Father,
can I go back again? Because I'm so bore! d here and the things
aren't going well on the earth.' God said okay, but this time he
wanted Jesus to go to the Palestinian-Israeli area, saying, 'There's
so much hunger there.' So Jesus went down and knocked on the door
of a supermarket filled with food. A man opened the door and asked,
'What do you want?' Jesus said, 'Hi there, all your shelves are full
of food but outside the people are starving, let's give all that food
away to the people. Don't worry; I'll fill your shelves tomorrow with
twice as much as there is now.' The man stood silently for a moment and
than yelled to the back of the store: 'Hey Mishon, bring the hammer,
nails, and wood here, be quick, that pimp is back.'
Nursun Erel
The New Anatolian, Turkey
Aug. 28, 2006
Parliament Foreign Affairs Commission head Mehmet Dulger speaks to TNA
Turkey is preparing to send Turkish soldiers to join the UN
peacekeeping efforts in Lebanon, and some say this will be a
prestigious task for Turkey. But what about the risks? Why hasn't
this vital issue been debated in Parliament?
I had such questions in my head while going to meet Mehmet Dulger,
chairman of Parliament's Foreign Affairs Commission. His office in
the Parliament building was still under renovation, but we found two
comfortable chairs to sit on and talk about the hot issues. Here's
what he had to say to us:
TNA: Being here, I must be luckier than the Israeli ambassador,
because according to rumor you turned down his request for a meeting.
DULGER: In fact I'd really like to talk to him, not only the Israeli
ambassador but also l the Lebanese and Palestinian ambassadors. But
as you see, the weather's been too hot recently and our office is
undergoing renovations.
TNA: How do you see the situation in Lebanon right now?
DULGER: Well, I saw some cartoons in today's newspapers. One of them
wonderfully described the situation, showing how the Americans are
trying to get the best advantage from the situation.
TNA: How do you see the opposition to sending Turkish soldiers to
the area?
DULGER: Actually the situation is extremely complex in the Middle
East now and that's why most of the crises there are unpredictable.
Especially the Lebanese state mechanism is set up on a very complex
ethnic base. So there are risks and opportunities waiting for Turkish
soldiers there. What are the opportunities? Because of the rejected
March 1, 2003 resolution (which would have allowed U.S. troops to be
stationed on Turkish soil for the imminent Iraq invasion) Turkey had
to stay out of developments in the Mideast, but now there's a chance
of getting back in the game.
Risks in Lebanon
TNA: What are the risks?
DULGER: Lebanon has a very complex ethnic situation, so even for a
peacekeeping mission, Turkish soldiers may face strong opposition.
Because we're Sunni, but the Lebanese are mostly Shiite. Additionally
there are all kind of extremist minorities in Lebanon like the
Armenians and Greek Orthodox groups. They would never be happy to
see a Turkish presence in Lebanon. So this is a vital decision for
Turkey and it has to be considered very seriously.
TNA: How do you see UN Resolution 1701 and the related documents? Are
they clear enough about describing the peacekeeping mission?
DULGER: First of all things happened too late, that's why the urging
parties lost a great deal of prestige in the eyes of the victims. And
also the resolution is far from being unbiased, since it openly
reflects U.S. views. But we have to admit that if U.S. hadn't insisted
this would never have happened.
TNA: Could you elaborate on that?
DULGER: Well, it seems that this is a kind of a war which was almost
predestined, developed and strategically designed long ago. The U.S.
is among the players and it's clear this is a part of its project to
reshape the Middle East. So what do we do now? Hundreds of civilians,
even children, have been killed in this war, most of the infrastructure
is destroyed, none of the kidnapped (Israeli) soldiers have been
returned, Hezbollah hasn't been disarmed, its ties with Iran and
Syria haven't been cut, and on the contrary now it's stronger than
before. I'm afraid similar resistance will be used by others too.
Parliament will debate deployment
TNA: Are you satisfied with the information given by the government
on the UN resolution?
DULGER: So far I haven't gotten much detailed information either on
UN Resolution 1701 or about our government's policies. So I don't
know what kind of advantages there are in taking part in this project.
TNA: According to the opposition, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan
is purposely avoiding detailed discussion around the resolution. It's
said he especially doesn't want the issue to be dealt with in
Parliament, because there's a concern something could happen among
AK Party members like with the March 2003 resolution. What do you
think about this?
DULGER: I don't think so, because there's no decision (on deployment)
yet. Without such a decision and without any document to talk about,
what will we debate in Parliament? First we have to wait for the
final decision, this way or that. If they decide to join UNIFIL,
the motion will certainly be debated in Parliament.
TNA: But we've heard some foreign leaders claim the Turkish government
has already declared its willingness to join the force, so isn't it
strange that we still don't know the final decision of the government?
DULGER: Some journalists asked me whether we will send Turkish soldiers
to the area or not. But I'm not the man to answer that question.
TNA: If Turkish soldiers are sent to the area, do you think such a
gesture will help repair the Turkish-American relationship, which
is still chilly since the March 2003 resolution was rejected by
Parliament?
DULGER: Let's look at the details of what's happening in the area.
First of all an indirect war between Iran and U.S. is escalating,
there are the tensions between the ethnic groups, the U.S. has an
imperial project in the area, and Iran is trying to emphasize its
dominance there too. Supported by the U.S., Israel claims to balance
the regional politics. Syria can't stand with Lebanon without their
obedience. And there's the huge Iraq problem.
So that picture is important for Turkey for different reasons. First,
the PKK (terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party) is a vital issue for us,
and its command mechanism and sources of legitimacy are in Iraq. So
as long as we can't accomplish our goals in the region concerning the
PKK, this becomes more risky for us, because a populist nationalism
is on the rise, which I think is very dangerous.
Another negative regional development is that Turkish and American
interests are more and more at odds. I mean our policies and theirs on
issues like the PKK, Israeli aggression, and the stand towards Iran
and Syria aren't parallel. So once we go hand in hand with the U.S.,
our other interests are being harmed. The U.S. will stay here for 50
years at most but our neighbors will always be there. So we have to
find common ground here.
If someone else comes to power in the US
TNA: Due to the different administrations, even U.S. regional policies
can change, don't you think?
DULGER: If another administration comes and changes its policies,
what will happen then? Because in changing our stand, we will be
taking great risks in the region. So all these factors are extremely
important and we have to check them all very carefully. Many Turks
support Hezbollah's cause in Lebanon, so they say: What will we do
there? Will we protect Israeli soldiers? Or try to take arms away
from Hezbollah members? I was recently in Antalya, and many people
came to me asking those questions.
TNA: How do you see other regional governments' stances?
DULGER: No one really knows what kind of risks there are. Also there's
another issue, namely that the West is downplaying the victims of
war. Do you know how many casualties there have been in Iraq? We don't
know yet how many Iraqis have died so far, but everyone knows the
number of American casualties. Also the number of Lebanese casualties
isn't known, but everyone knows how many Israelis died. So it's clear
there's a great prejudice against the people of the Middle East. We
must change this first. After Sept. 11, the West got paranoid about
terror. But what about us? What about the PKK? Is the PKK a terror
group? If they say yes, than they have to push for the necessary
steps to be taken too.
TNA: How do you see the PKK coordinator expected to be appointed soon
by the U.S.?
DULGER: Let's wait and see his positions and words. Because during
her visit, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice saw the Turkish
determination on the PKK issue, so they felt the need to take this
stand. It's a very vexing situation that there's such cooperation
among the Kurds in northern Iraq. Even though it's crystal clear
that the PKK is provoking all kind of terror actions against Turkey,
Iraqi leaders Jalal Talabani and Massoud Barzani let them survive,
because they are also Kurds.
TNA: Everyone seems to be obsessed about the Israel-Lebanon war,
but there are other hot issues too. How do you see Turkey's European
Union accession process?
DULGER: Normally we deal with issues as they come up, but I'm not
sure if we're ready for the important days we're going to be facing
soon. The new EU progress report on Turkey will be discussed next
month in Brussels and there are about 437 different proposals to
make changes to the report. Some of them are against our interests,
and some are in favor, so I propose our party puts together a group
of 20 deputies from Parliament and let them lobby in Brussels.
TNA: Is there any reason why this can't happen?
DULGER: No but we have to do this as soon as possible, otherwise
those negative proposals will be a headache for Turkey. For example
the Croatians don't have any problem with their accession but they
organized themselves so well, yet with so many problems we fail to act.
The Cyprus issue and flirting
TNA: How do you see developments on the Cyprus issue?
TNA: Well, our Greek Cypriot friends must stop talking on behalf
of the Turkish Cypriots. If things go on like this, separation will
become unavoidable. They must give up their unrealistic dreams. Just
like trying to flirt with a young girl, if you keep on pressing but
she turns you down again and again, you can say it 50 times but you
can't say it a 51st time, at that point you have to leave her alone.
TNA: Let's discuss domestic politics too. When do you expect the next
general elections?
DULGER: I haven't checked the calendar, but any Sunday of November
2007.
Presidential election
TNA: So that means you don't expect early elections, but many people
believe that in this case the presidential election set for May 2007
will cause fierce debate.
DULGER: I can't see the logic behind such an argument. Why do they
question the legitimacy of an elected president? Let's look at the
last three elections. What was the number of the votes for previous
presidents and what are we talking about now? When I was a member of
the True Path Party (DYP), we opposed President Turgut Ozal because
he didn't really represent Turkish society; his votes were sharply
declining in both general and local elections. But we don't have any
problem like that. So now I have only one wish: that the new president
be elected from among the deputies of this Parliament. I get the sense
that even Mr. Deniz Baykal (main opposition Republican People's Party,
CHP, leader) is close to such a dialogue with the AK Party.
TNA: If the AK Party decides who the next president is, some people
are concerned that its "hidden agenda" will come out. This is because
then most high court members and university rectors will be appointed
by this new AK Party-origin president, and the headscarf ban could
also be overturned. How do you respond to this?
DULGER: I totally reject these stupid allegations. There's no
such hidden agenda. I hear what they say, they even speculate that
Sharia law could be applied or all the women will become headscarved
overnight. But this is total nonsense. If I had any thought like that
I wouldn't be sitting here, and if anybody tried to do that I'd fight
them till the very end. This is the paranoia of some circles. So how
do they explain that AK Party came to power with all the values those
circles brand it with? And more importantly, how do they explain the
stable term AK Party government up to now?
TNA: How do you see the developments on the right? For instance,
former Premier Mesut Yilmaz is back in politics, and there are efforts
to unify right-wing parties. Do you think anything will come of this?
DULGER: Most of them are my good old friends, but unfortunately
I don't expect them to succeed. Because it's quite clear that all
their efforts are for certain individuals and groups around them,
instead of new political dimensions.
Bring the nails
During our interview Dulger told a joke and said, "This is where we
plan to send our troops."
"Up in heaven, Jesus was so bored one day so he said to God, 'Father,
it's so dull living in paradise all the time, I want to do something.
I see down on earth things aren't going well, especially in Africa,
thousands of people are dying of starvation, let me go down and help
them.' God said okay, so Jesus went down to Africa and went into a
market and told the owner, 'Hi there, all your shelves are full of
food but outside the people are starving, let's give all that food
away to the people. Don't worry; I'll fill your shelves tomorrow with
twice as much as there is now.' So the food was given away to the
people. The next day the shelves had twice as much food. Then they
did it again and Jesus kept on filling the shelves. In a few days,
the starvation ended in Africa and Jesus went back to heaven with
satisfaction. He went on living like that for a while, but then he
again got bored with the routine and once again asked God: 'Father,
can I go back again? Because I'm so bore! d here and the things
aren't going well on the earth.' God said okay, but this time he
wanted Jesus to go to the Palestinian-Israeli area, saying, 'There's
so much hunger there.' So Jesus went down and knocked on the door
of a supermarket filled with food. A man opened the door and asked,
'What do you want?' Jesus said, 'Hi there, all your shelves are full
of food but outside the people are starving, let's give all that food
away to the people. Don't worry; I'll fill your shelves tomorrow with
twice as much as there is now.' The man stood silently for a moment and
than yelled to the back of the store: 'Hey Mishon, bring the hammer,
nails, and wood here, be quick, that pimp is back.'