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AZERI PRESIDENT TALKS TOUGH ON RUSSIAN GAS, NAGORNYY KARABAKH
Ekho Moskvy radio, Moscow
Dec 23 2006
Azeri President Ilham Aliyev has said Azerbaijan may reduce or cut
gas imports from Russia completely in response to increased prices
and vowed not to give in to "commercial blackmail". In an interview
with Russian Ekho Moskvy radio on 23 December, Aliyev also said
Azerbaijan intended to strengthen its economy and its army to counter
Armenia over Nagornyy Karabakh, played down the significance of the
CIS and voiced opposition to the imposition of sanctions against Iran
over its nuclear programme.
Right to refuse gas price
Aliyev said Gazprom's insistence on a higher price for gas delivered
to Azerbaijan ran counter to the spirit of relations between the two
countries.
He said an Azeri delegation had come to Moscow for talks at Gazprom's
invitation.
"Talks have already been taking place for quite a long time, but,
unfortunately, without success, since the positive level and baggage
of mutually-advantageous cooperation between Gazprom and the [State]
Oil Company of Azerbaijan is melting away through no fault of our
own."
"When suddenly the price goes up to 230 and at the last moment to 235
[dollars per thousand cubic metres of gas], one of course feels a
complete dissonance between such an approach and the spirit, nature
and essence of Russian-Azeri relations. And this is a matter of
regret because our relations are shaping up very positively and very
constructively, and embrace far broader spheres than merely energy.
"As far as energy is concerned, and particularly gas, it would
undoubtedly be more logical and reasonable in the future to seek
points of contact for joint activities, for joint projects, instead
of trying unilaterally to increase the price and in some measure to
force Azerbaijan into something. That is impossible. Azerbaijan is no
longer the kind of state that can be forced into anything."
Aliyev said it was Gazprom's right to set its price, "just as it is
our right to refuse". "We are now considering our options: either to
reduce it or to do without it altogether."
Wider use of fuel oil
Aliyev said a greater reliance on fuel oil would be one way out for
Azerbaijan in response to the Gazprom price hike.
"This year our oil output was 30m tonnes, while our domestic
requirement is 6m. So there is no problem there. Gas output was
something like 4.5-5 [billion cu.m.], against a domestic requirement
for 10. So we have a shortage. And it is not nice to take advantage
of this shortage. We would never behave like that. Where are we going
to get it? We have nowhere to get it from. So we need to change our
energy equation and switch from fuel oil plus gas to fuel oil alone.
It is clear what it will lead to: we shall be compelled to reduce the
transportation of Azeri oil to the port of Novorossiysk. We have no
other way out. Our power stations need to be fuelled by something. If
it's not gas, it has to be fuel oil. And where to get the fuel oil
from? Only by processing oil. And where can we get it from? From the
Baku-Novorossiysk pipe."
Aliyev said he could not allow Azerbaijan to be subjected to what he
described as "commercial blackmail".
"I have decided to find a way out of the situation with minimum
losses for Azerbaijan, and at the same time with dignity. I cannot
allow Azerbaijan to be turned into a country subject to elements of
commercial blackmail. I cannot allow that to happen."
No gas deliveries to Georgia
The Azeri leader denied Azerbaijan was delivering gas to Georgia.
"We do not supply gas to Georgia. We buy gas. This year we bought
4.5bn cubic metres. And, according to information and statements from
the most senior Russian leaders, we were the only country with which
Russia had no debt problems."
He said he could not rule out a political dimension to the gas price
issue.
"So, overall, I would not politicize the issue, although it is of
course impossible to rule out a political subtext. But it would also
be wrong to reduce the significance of the existence of the CIS to
cheap gas."
Little benefit from CIS
Asked what membership of the CIS meant for Azerbaijan, Aliyev denied
there was any benefit from membership other than providing a forum
for bilateral talks.
"We construct our relations with CIS members on a bilateral basis. In
the energy context, the projects that we implement with our
neighbours are outside the framework of the CIS. In terms of
political contacts, we also have good relations with practically all
CIS countries within the framework of bilateral relations. So from
the practical point of view, it gives us nothing. It is a good format
for meetings, for holding talks."
He went on: "So it [CIS] should not be demonized, nor should one
expect too much from it."
GUAM and Nagornyy Karabakh
Aliyev said the GUAM regional alliance of Georgia, Ukraine,
Azerbaijan and Moldova provided a "fairly productive" format and
noted that Armenia was the only country with which Azerbaijan had
difficulties.
"I believe the organization should not be against anything. By the
way, I think Azerbaijan's membership of the organization is a
positive factor. Basically, we do not take part in any campaigns
against someone. We have a problem with Armenia, a country that has
occupied our territories. We are combating them and shall continue to
combat them using all ways and means along a broad front: economic,
political, military, humanitarian, propaganda, and in every other
way. But we have no problems with other countries. "
The Azeri president said GUAM had provided a platform for dealing
with separatist conflicts in a single format.
"We managed in the context of GUAM to unite all the separatist
conflicts into one format for the first time. It was not so before.
Previously, for some reason, and particularly in the West, it was
believed that Abkhazia, [South] Ossetia and the Dniester region had
separatism, while in Nagornyy Karabakh it was some sort of liberation
movement, even though the essence is the same: aggressive
separatism."
Aliyev said a thriving economy and a strong army were essential to
counter Armenia over Nagornyy Karabakh, which he predicted would
never be recognized as independent.
"We must be strong, we must strengthen the economy, we must
strengthen the army, we must be more active on the diplomatic front.
We must become a much more important country than Armenia, and are
already becoming one. With our importance, with our potential and
with our projects we must outweigh the Armenian lobby."
"No-one will ever recognize Nagornyy Karabakh as an independent
state. No-one needs a country with a population of 60,000. And,
without, primarily, the will of Azerbaijan this is impossible. And we
shall never agree to it. The main thing the Armenian leadership
should realize is that this will never happen. Beyond this, within
the framework of territorial integrity, of course solutions can be
reached."
Military spending
Aliyev recalled that two years ago he had set the task of bringing
Azeri military spending up to the level of the entire Armenian
budget.
"I am accustomed to keeping my word. And I have kept it, bringing the
army budget into line with the budget of Armenia. And that is not the
limit. It will be surpassed."
Asked about whether Azerbaijan would buy arms from the USA, Aliyev
replied: "I don't think they will sell us any."
NATO membership
Aliyev played down a possible Azeri bid for NATO membership: "Entry
into any organization is a two-way process. Does the organization
want you to join or not? To bang on the door, to seek entry, to ask
and to plead are not in my nature. And the same applies to the EU. "
Sanctions against Iran
Asked how Azerbaijan would vote on Iran sanctions if it were a member
of the UN Security Council, he said Azerbaijan "would be
unequivocally against any sanctions".
"The development of nuclear technologies is not prohibited. Isn't
that so? All countries have the right. There is the International
Atomic Energy Agency, there is international control. Is there
evidence today that Iran is preparing a nuclear bomb? We have no such
evidence. Do international experts have such evidence? It is all
based on assumptions. But we have recently seen what such assumptions
lead to - mistakes. So to punish a country because it wants to
develop nuclear technology - why are others allowed to and they are
not? A principle is being breached. Perhaps there are some people who
do not like it. That's for sure. Perhaps some people feel concern or
danger. All right, then the issue has to be discussed, work needs to
be done, cooperation carried out. But to say they can't go ahead or
there will be sanctions will lead to nothing. Believe me. "
Caspian
Aliyev also talked about ethnic Azeris and Azeri migrants in Russia
and regretted that "certain circles are trying to earn political
capital from nationalism". He gave an assurance that ethnic
minorities were treated well in Azerbaijan.
Aliyev expressed condolences over the death of President Saparmyrat
Nyyazow of Turkmenistan. He noted that "fairly intensive"
negotiations with Iran on the demarcation of the Caspian were under
way, while the border with Russia and Kazakhstan had already been
determined. But he noted that with Turkmenistan there were
differences of view on Caspian delimitation.
[The interviewers in the studio were Aleksey Venediktov and Nargiz
Asadova, and the interview lasted 53 minutes.]
Ekho Moskvy radio, Moscow
Dec 23 2006
Azeri President Ilham Aliyev has said Azerbaijan may reduce or cut
gas imports from Russia completely in response to increased prices
and vowed not to give in to "commercial blackmail". In an interview
with Russian Ekho Moskvy radio on 23 December, Aliyev also said
Azerbaijan intended to strengthen its economy and its army to counter
Armenia over Nagornyy Karabakh, played down the significance of the
CIS and voiced opposition to the imposition of sanctions against Iran
over its nuclear programme.
Right to refuse gas price
Aliyev said Gazprom's insistence on a higher price for gas delivered
to Azerbaijan ran counter to the spirit of relations between the two
countries.
He said an Azeri delegation had come to Moscow for talks at Gazprom's
invitation.
"Talks have already been taking place for quite a long time, but,
unfortunately, without success, since the positive level and baggage
of mutually-advantageous cooperation between Gazprom and the [State]
Oil Company of Azerbaijan is melting away through no fault of our
own."
"When suddenly the price goes up to 230 and at the last moment to 235
[dollars per thousand cubic metres of gas], one of course feels a
complete dissonance between such an approach and the spirit, nature
and essence of Russian-Azeri relations. And this is a matter of
regret because our relations are shaping up very positively and very
constructively, and embrace far broader spheres than merely energy.
"As far as energy is concerned, and particularly gas, it would
undoubtedly be more logical and reasonable in the future to seek
points of contact for joint activities, for joint projects, instead
of trying unilaterally to increase the price and in some measure to
force Azerbaijan into something. That is impossible. Azerbaijan is no
longer the kind of state that can be forced into anything."
Aliyev said it was Gazprom's right to set its price, "just as it is
our right to refuse". "We are now considering our options: either to
reduce it or to do without it altogether."
Wider use of fuel oil
Aliyev said a greater reliance on fuel oil would be one way out for
Azerbaijan in response to the Gazprom price hike.
"This year our oil output was 30m tonnes, while our domestic
requirement is 6m. So there is no problem there. Gas output was
something like 4.5-5 [billion cu.m.], against a domestic requirement
for 10. So we have a shortage. And it is not nice to take advantage
of this shortage. We would never behave like that. Where are we going
to get it? We have nowhere to get it from. So we need to change our
energy equation and switch from fuel oil plus gas to fuel oil alone.
It is clear what it will lead to: we shall be compelled to reduce the
transportation of Azeri oil to the port of Novorossiysk. We have no
other way out. Our power stations need to be fuelled by something. If
it's not gas, it has to be fuel oil. And where to get the fuel oil
from? Only by processing oil. And where can we get it from? From the
Baku-Novorossiysk pipe."
Aliyev said he could not allow Azerbaijan to be subjected to what he
described as "commercial blackmail".
"I have decided to find a way out of the situation with minimum
losses for Azerbaijan, and at the same time with dignity. I cannot
allow Azerbaijan to be turned into a country subject to elements of
commercial blackmail. I cannot allow that to happen."
No gas deliveries to Georgia
The Azeri leader denied Azerbaijan was delivering gas to Georgia.
"We do not supply gas to Georgia. We buy gas. This year we bought
4.5bn cubic metres. And, according to information and statements from
the most senior Russian leaders, we were the only country with which
Russia had no debt problems."
He said he could not rule out a political dimension to the gas price
issue.
"So, overall, I would not politicize the issue, although it is of
course impossible to rule out a political subtext. But it would also
be wrong to reduce the significance of the existence of the CIS to
cheap gas."
Little benefit from CIS
Asked what membership of the CIS meant for Azerbaijan, Aliyev denied
there was any benefit from membership other than providing a forum
for bilateral talks.
"We construct our relations with CIS members on a bilateral basis. In
the energy context, the projects that we implement with our
neighbours are outside the framework of the CIS. In terms of
political contacts, we also have good relations with practically all
CIS countries within the framework of bilateral relations. So from
the practical point of view, it gives us nothing. It is a good format
for meetings, for holding talks."
He went on: "So it [CIS] should not be demonized, nor should one
expect too much from it."
GUAM and Nagornyy Karabakh
Aliyev said the GUAM regional alliance of Georgia, Ukraine,
Azerbaijan and Moldova provided a "fairly productive" format and
noted that Armenia was the only country with which Azerbaijan had
difficulties.
"I believe the organization should not be against anything. By the
way, I think Azerbaijan's membership of the organization is a
positive factor. Basically, we do not take part in any campaigns
against someone. We have a problem with Armenia, a country that has
occupied our territories. We are combating them and shall continue to
combat them using all ways and means along a broad front: economic,
political, military, humanitarian, propaganda, and in every other
way. But we have no problems with other countries. "
The Azeri president said GUAM had provided a platform for dealing
with separatist conflicts in a single format.
"We managed in the context of GUAM to unite all the separatist
conflicts into one format for the first time. It was not so before.
Previously, for some reason, and particularly in the West, it was
believed that Abkhazia, [South] Ossetia and the Dniester region had
separatism, while in Nagornyy Karabakh it was some sort of liberation
movement, even though the essence is the same: aggressive
separatism."
Aliyev said a thriving economy and a strong army were essential to
counter Armenia over Nagornyy Karabakh, which he predicted would
never be recognized as independent.
"We must be strong, we must strengthen the economy, we must
strengthen the army, we must be more active on the diplomatic front.
We must become a much more important country than Armenia, and are
already becoming one. With our importance, with our potential and
with our projects we must outweigh the Armenian lobby."
"No-one will ever recognize Nagornyy Karabakh as an independent
state. No-one needs a country with a population of 60,000. And,
without, primarily, the will of Azerbaijan this is impossible. And we
shall never agree to it. The main thing the Armenian leadership
should realize is that this will never happen. Beyond this, within
the framework of territorial integrity, of course solutions can be
reached."
Military spending
Aliyev recalled that two years ago he had set the task of bringing
Azeri military spending up to the level of the entire Armenian
budget.
"I am accustomed to keeping my word. And I have kept it, bringing the
army budget into line with the budget of Armenia. And that is not the
limit. It will be surpassed."
Asked about whether Azerbaijan would buy arms from the USA, Aliyev
replied: "I don't think they will sell us any."
NATO membership
Aliyev played down a possible Azeri bid for NATO membership: "Entry
into any organization is a two-way process. Does the organization
want you to join or not? To bang on the door, to seek entry, to ask
and to plead are not in my nature. And the same applies to the EU. "
Sanctions against Iran
Asked how Azerbaijan would vote on Iran sanctions if it were a member
of the UN Security Council, he said Azerbaijan "would be
unequivocally against any sanctions".
"The development of nuclear technologies is not prohibited. Isn't
that so? All countries have the right. There is the International
Atomic Energy Agency, there is international control. Is there
evidence today that Iran is preparing a nuclear bomb? We have no such
evidence. Do international experts have such evidence? It is all
based on assumptions. But we have recently seen what such assumptions
lead to - mistakes. So to punish a country because it wants to
develop nuclear technology - why are others allowed to and they are
not? A principle is being breached. Perhaps there are some people who
do not like it. That's for sure. Perhaps some people feel concern or
danger. All right, then the issue has to be discussed, work needs to
be done, cooperation carried out. But to say they can't go ahead or
there will be sanctions will lead to nothing. Believe me. "
Caspian
Aliyev also talked about ethnic Azeris and Azeri migrants in Russia
and regretted that "certain circles are trying to earn political
capital from nationalism". He gave an assurance that ethnic
minorities were treated well in Azerbaijan.
Aliyev expressed condolences over the death of President Saparmyrat
Nyyazow of Turkmenistan. He noted that "fairly intensive"
negotiations with Iran on the demarcation of the Caspian were under
way, while the border with Russia and Kazakhstan had already been
determined. But he noted that with Turkmenistan there were
differences of view on Caspian delimitation.
[The interviewers in the studio were Aleksey Venediktov and Nargiz
Asadova, and the interview lasted 53 minutes.]