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Georgia is becoming hostage to Azeri-Turkish alliance: interview with Pavel Chobanyan
15:24 10.07.2006
Permanent news address: http://www.regnum.ru/english/670432.html
Pavel Chobanyan - expert of the Caucasus analytical center, doctor
of historical sciences
REGNUM: What problems are there in Armenian-Georgian relations and
what effect are they having on Russian-Georgian relations?
Armenian-Georgian relations have always been substantive, but they
got even more pronounced in the post-Soviet independence years.
Armenia and Georgia have generally positive relations, but we should
admit that there are some negative things too. Today, they are facing
a number of problems that can't be resolved just on their good will.
The first episode of the Armenian-Georgian confrontation is the
position of the Armenian community of Abkhazia and their cooperation
with Abkhazians, who, as you know, have proclaimed independence from
Georgia. The Georgian authorities accuse Armenians of cooperation
with the Abkhazian side and are trying to sow distrust towards them
among Abkhazians and to kindle ethnic strife.
The Georgian authorities are conducting a nationalist policy in both
the capital and the regions, thereby creating ethnic conflict spots.
They are publishing openly anti-Armenian books and articles with the
only view of accusing Armenians of being unkindly to Georgia. One
of the objectives of this "old-story" policy is to assimilate
Armenians: in fact, by changing their surnames into Georgian ones
(or, as Georgians say, "restoring their Georgian surnames"), many
Georgia-based Armenians try to relieve themselves of the yoke of
ethnic discrimination.
The next stage of the Armenian-Georgian confrontation is the growing
diktat of the Georgian authorities against Javakheti and the local
Armenians. Obviously, Tbilisi is trying to force them out of the
region.
If in the first issue Armenia's official position is quite
unnoticeable, this problem is going outside Georgia and is getting
pan-Armenian and even international importance, especially in the light
of the national minority rights situation in Georgia, the withdrawal
of Russian military bases from Akhalkalaki, the Council of Europe's
demand for returning Meskheti Turks to Georgia, the project to lay
a railroad Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilii bypassing Armenia.
In fact, any attempt of the Javakheti Armenians to exercise their
democratic rights receives negative response from the Georgian press,
public and state.
For example, Georgian media have immediately reacted to the
statement made by the United Javakhq association during its first
congress a few days ago: their articles contained anti-Armenian
statements. In response to the association's protest against the
Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi railroad, the Georgian press said that
"only blind will fail to see that this protest reflects the position
of the central political forces of Armenia." One Georgian newspaper
has appeared with provocative article saying that "In Akhalakali
Russia is selling arms brought from Tskhinvali." (Khvalindeli Dge,
June 27-28, 2006, 65).
There are also problems concerning the activities of the Armenian
Church in Georgia: the Georgian authorities are curbing church
ceremonies, seizing Armenian churches, denying legal status to the
Diocese of the Armenian Church in Georgia.
Various media and "scientific" editions are openly distorting facts
in order to present the Armenians as the Georgians' enemy.
The logic of Georgian-Russian and Armenian-Russian relations is also
a good soil for anti-Armenian moods. Regarding Russia as a force
steadily destroying the Georgian statehood and church autocephaly
since Georgia's accession into the Russian Empire in 1801, the
Georgian authorities deny Russia any positive role in the history of
Georgia. Armenia, on the contrary, admits and appreciates the role of
Russia. As a result, Georgia is beginning to regard it as undesirable
Russia's ally.
REGNUM: Why is Nagorno-Karabakh Republic refusing to join the
agreement of the unrecognized republics Abkhazia, South Ossetia and
Transdniestria. Is this because Armenia does not want to spoil its
relations with Georgia?
This may, certainly, be the case. However, it should be noted that,
unlike Abkhazia and South Ossetia, who are directly negotiating
with Georgia, Nagorno-Karabakh is more restricted in its foreign
relations, and it is Armenian rather than Nagorno-Karabakh president
who is holding talks with Azerbaijan. As a result, this conflict is
regarded not as conflict between NKR and Azerbaijan but as a conflict
between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh. Besides, if in
Abkhazia and South Ossetia, peace is kept by Russian troops according
to a relevant agreement and definite quota, in Nagorno-Karabakh,
security is guaranteed by own army and the Republic of Armenia.
The above trilateral agreement has followed the demand of the
Georgian authorities for the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers and
is aimed at ensuring join defense of independence in case of military
aggression. Hence, the Nagorno-Karabakh army can neither hope for
military help, say, from Abkhazia or Transdnestr, nor help them itself.
REGNUM: What do you think about the statement of Georgian Prime
Minister Nogaideli that there will be no new autonomies in Georgia?
Autonomy is often the result of the struggle of a local population
for its well-grounded rights and of, though reluctant, but the
acquiescence of central authorities to recognize these rights. In
Georgia they regard the Javakheti Armenians' demands for respect of
their rights exactly as struggle for autonomy. However, there was
no such demand in United Javakhq's statement and Nogaideli might
have seen one in the urge "to regulate the mechanisms of using the
Armenian language in administrative paper work and education as an
equal and alternative language to the only state language -Georgian."
It should be noted that Armenians have faced many similar problems
before - and not only inside Georgia, but also over the Armenian
territories of Azerbaijan that were outside the borders of the
Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region.
Today, when the Russian language has no state status in Georgia,
I think that the Georgian authorities must not give hostility and
misunderstanding to a local population's demand for respect of its
native language equally with Georgian.
I think that they should permit the use of native language in village,
district or regional paper work.
REGNUM: To what a level and quality Russian-Georgian relations may
get in the near future?
A week before the Putin-Saakashvili meeting and after it, the
Georgian side stopped the unpromising and dangerous anti-Russian
rhetoric. Even more, some Georgian analysts called for restoring good
neighbor relations with Russia. Although the news about US President
Georgia Bush inviting Saakashvili to Washington has given a new rise
to pro-American moods in Georgia, there is still a growing wave of
pro-Russian and anti-Soros actions in the country. Nevertheless,
Georgia will continue acting and speaking against Russia, which will
make Georgian-Russian relations even worse. External forces cannot
make peace in Georgia but are still trying to convince Georgia of its
own political significance. Nevertheless, the authority and influence
of Saakashvili and his team are falling. In a recent survey only 10%
said that Saakashvili has political prospects against 17.8% voting
for Salome Zourabichvili and 12.7% for Koba Davitashvili.
REGNUM: And what do you think about the dynamics of Georgian-Azeri
relations?
In its struggle for existence, Georgians have traditionally tried
to avoid bad relations with neighboring Muslim states, to maneuver
between them so as to reduce own losses. Sometimes, they succeeded.
In the last years the Georgian authorities have proclaimed themselves
as the strategic allies of the US, Turkey, Ukraine and Azerbaijan and,
by confronting the regional policy of Russia, are trying to create
economic and political prerequisites for solving their own internal
and external problems. Availing itself of the Armenian-Turkish and
Armenian-Azeri conflicts, Georgia is trying to act as a transport
corridor in East-West energy relations.
With economic cooperation being the priority of Georgia's relations
with the Turkish-Azeri alliance, the local authorities are actively
attracting Turkish investments into their economic projects.
Given its deepening military-economic cooperation with Turkey and
Azerbaijan, Georgia could not evade their political positions. Being
the key energy transit link between Armenia and the outer world,
Georgia is constantly forced to yield to Azerbaijan's demands, which
are allegedly aimed only against Armenia. For example, Azerbaijan
has put a ban on the transit of oil products for Georgia via its
territory, alleging that, at least, part of them are for Armenia and
will be given to it.
Georgia had to give numerous proofs it would not, the Georgian prime
minister went to Baku specially to solve this problem. Recently, an
Azeri MP said that Azerbaijan is against the opening of the Abkhazian
railroad as this will give Armenia direct communication with Russia.
Otherwise, Baku is threatening with aggravation of Azeri-Georgian
relations. Presently, the Georgian-Russian railroad operations are
carried out via Azerbaijan.
In fact, Azerbaijan is not only actively interfering in Georgia's
internal affairs but is actively enrolling to this end its communities
living in the southern regions of Georgia. Some Azeri organizations,
especially, the National Assembly of Azeris of Georgia and its
president Dasgyn Gulmamedov, are beginning to more frequently call
for Georgia's federalization.
Obviously, this interference will keep growing, and Georgia will be
forced to make more and more concessions to the Turkish-Azeri side,
especially after the return of Meskheti Turks.
© 1999-2006 REGNUM News Agency
--Boundary_(ID_kVamUpNdbEPVwyOL7JvUcw)--
From: Emil Lazarian | Ararat NewsPress
15:24 10.07.2006
Permanent news address: http://www.regnum.ru/english/670432.html
Pavel Chobanyan - expert of the Caucasus analytical center, doctor
of historical sciences
REGNUM: What problems are there in Armenian-Georgian relations and
what effect are they having on Russian-Georgian relations?
Armenian-Georgian relations have always been substantive, but they
got even more pronounced in the post-Soviet independence years.
Armenia and Georgia have generally positive relations, but we should
admit that there are some negative things too. Today, they are facing
a number of problems that can't be resolved just on their good will.
The first episode of the Armenian-Georgian confrontation is the
position of the Armenian community of Abkhazia and their cooperation
with Abkhazians, who, as you know, have proclaimed independence from
Georgia. The Georgian authorities accuse Armenians of cooperation
with the Abkhazian side and are trying to sow distrust towards them
among Abkhazians and to kindle ethnic strife.
The Georgian authorities are conducting a nationalist policy in both
the capital and the regions, thereby creating ethnic conflict spots.
They are publishing openly anti-Armenian books and articles with the
only view of accusing Armenians of being unkindly to Georgia. One
of the objectives of this "old-story" policy is to assimilate
Armenians: in fact, by changing their surnames into Georgian ones
(or, as Georgians say, "restoring their Georgian surnames"), many
Georgia-based Armenians try to relieve themselves of the yoke of
ethnic discrimination.
The next stage of the Armenian-Georgian confrontation is the growing
diktat of the Georgian authorities against Javakheti and the local
Armenians. Obviously, Tbilisi is trying to force them out of the
region.
If in the first issue Armenia's official position is quite
unnoticeable, this problem is going outside Georgia and is getting
pan-Armenian and even international importance, especially in the light
of the national minority rights situation in Georgia, the withdrawal
of Russian military bases from Akhalkalaki, the Council of Europe's
demand for returning Meskheti Turks to Georgia, the project to lay
a railroad Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilii bypassing Armenia.
In fact, any attempt of the Javakheti Armenians to exercise their
democratic rights receives negative response from the Georgian press,
public and state.
For example, Georgian media have immediately reacted to the
statement made by the United Javakhq association during its first
congress a few days ago: their articles contained anti-Armenian
statements. In response to the association's protest against the
Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi railroad, the Georgian press said that
"only blind will fail to see that this protest reflects the position
of the central political forces of Armenia." One Georgian newspaper
has appeared with provocative article saying that "In Akhalakali
Russia is selling arms brought from Tskhinvali." (Khvalindeli Dge,
June 27-28, 2006, 65).
There are also problems concerning the activities of the Armenian
Church in Georgia: the Georgian authorities are curbing church
ceremonies, seizing Armenian churches, denying legal status to the
Diocese of the Armenian Church in Georgia.
Various media and "scientific" editions are openly distorting facts
in order to present the Armenians as the Georgians' enemy.
The logic of Georgian-Russian and Armenian-Russian relations is also
a good soil for anti-Armenian moods. Regarding Russia as a force
steadily destroying the Georgian statehood and church autocephaly
since Georgia's accession into the Russian Empire in 1801, the
Georgian authorities deny Russia any positive role in the history of
Georgia. Armenia, on the contrary, admits and appreciates the role of
Russia. As a result, Georgia is beginning to regard it as undesirable
Russia's ally.
REGNUM: Why is Nagorno-Karabakh Republic refusing to join the
agreement of the unrecognized republics Abkhazia, South Ossetia and
Transdniestria. Is this because Armenia does not want to spoil its
relations with Georgia?
This may, certainly, be the case. However, it should be noted that,
unlike Abkhazia and South Ossetia, who are directly negotiating
with Georgia, Nagorno-Karabakh is more restricted in its foreign
relations, and it is Armenian rather than Nagorno-Karabakh president
who is holding talks with Azerbaijan. As a result, this conflict is
regarded not as conflict between NKR and Azerbaijan but as a conflict
between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh. Besides, if in
Abkhazia and South Ossetia, peace is kept by Russian troops according
to a relevant agreement and definite quota, in Nagorno-Karabakh,
security is guaranteed by own army and the Republic of Armenia.
The above trilateral agreement has followed the demand of the
Georgian authorities for the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers and
is aimed at ensuring join defense of independence in case of military
aggression. Hence, the Nagorno-Karabakh army can neither hope for
military help, say, from Abkhazia or Transdnestr, nor help them itself.
REGNUM: What do you think about the statement of Georgian Prime
Minister Nogaideli that there will be no new autonomies in Georgia?
Autonomy is often the result of the struggle of a local population
for its well-grounded rights and of, though reluctant, but the
acquiescence of central authorities to recognize these rights. In
Georgia they regard the Javakheti Armenians' demands for respect of
their rights exactly as struggle for autonomy. However, there was
no such demand in United Javakhq's statement and Nogaideli might
have seen one in the urge "to regulate the mechanisms of using the
Armenian language in administrative paper work and education as an
equal and alternative language to the only state language -Georgian."
It should be noted that Armenians have faced many similar problems
before - and not only inside Georgia, but also over the Armenian
territories of Azerbaijan that were outside the borders of the
Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region.
Today, when the Russian language has no state status in Georgia,
I think that the Georgian authorities must not give hostility and
misunderstanding to a local population's demand for respect of its
native language equally with Georgian.
I think that they should permit the use of native language in village,
district or regional paper work.
REGNUM: To what a level and quality Russian-Georgian relations may
get in the near future?
A week before the Putin-Saakashvili meeting and after it, the
Georgian side stopped the unpromising and dangerous anti-Russian
rhetoric. Even more, some Georgian analysts called for restoring good
neighbor relations with Russia. Although the news about US President
Georgia Bush inviting Saakashvili to Washington has given a new rise
to pro-American moods in Georgia, there is still a growing wave of
pro-Russian and anti-Soros actions in the country. Nevertheless,
Georgia will continue acting and speaking against Russia, which will
make Georgian-Russian relations even worse. External forces cannot
make peace in Georgia but are still trying to convince Georgia of its
own political significance. Nevertheless, the authority and influence
of Saakashvili and his team are falling. In a recent survey only 10%
said that Saakashvili has political prospects against 17.8% voting
for Salome Zourabichvili and 12.7% for Koba Davitashvili.
REGNUM: And what do you think about the dynamics of Georgian-Azeri
relations?
In its struggle for existence, Georgians have traditionally tried
to avoid bad relations with neighboring Muslim states, to maneuver
between them so as to reduce own losses. Sometimes, they succeeded.
In the last years the Georgian authorities have proclaimed themselves
as the strategic allies of the US, Turkey, Ukraine and Azerbaijan and,
by confronting the regional policy of Russia, are trying to create
economic and political prerequisites for solving their own internal
and external problems. Availing itself of the Armenian-Turkish and
Armenian-Azeri conflicts, Georgia is trying to act as a transport
corridor in East-West energy relations.
With economic cooperation being the priority of Georgia's relations
with the Turkish-Azeri alliance, the local authorities are actively
attracting Turkish investments into their economic projects.
Given its deepening military-economic cooperation with Turkey and
Azerbaijan, Georgia could not evade their political positions. Being
the key energy transit link between Armenia and the outer world,
Georgia is constantly forced to yield to Azerbaijan's demands, which
are allegedly aimed only against Armenia. For example, Azerbaijan
has put a ban on the transit of oil products for Georgia via its
territory, alleging that, at least, part of them are for Armenia and
will be given to it.
Georgia had to give numerous proofs it would not, the Georgian prime
minister went to Baku specially to solve this problem. Recently, an
Azeri MP said that Azerbaijan is against the opening of the Abkhazian
railroad as this will give Armenia direct communication with Russia.
Otherwise, Baku is threatening with aggravation of Azeri-Georgian
relations. Presently, the Georgian-Russian railroad operations are
carried out via Azerbaijan.
In fact, Azerbaijan is not only actively interfering in Georgia's
internal affairs but is actively enrolling to this end its communities
living in the southern regions of Georgia. Some Azeri organizations,
especially, the National Assembly of Azeris of Georgia and its
president Dasgyn Gulmamedov, are beginning to more frequently call
for Georgia's federalization.
Obviously, this interference will keep growing, and Georgia will be
forced to make more and more concessions to the Turkish-Azeri side,
especially after the return of Meskheti Turks.
© 1999-2006 REGNUM News Agency
--Boundary_(ID_kVamUpNdbEPVwyOL7JvUcw)--
From: Emil Lazarian | Ararat NewsPress