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DOES ONE NEED TALENT TO COMPILE FILES?
Lragir.am
12 July 06
The Republican Party - Serge Sargsyan alliance emerged as a result of
force majeure in both external and internal policies. Under different
circumstances a non-partisan status would be more expedient for the
political future of Serge Sargsyan, said Member of Parliament Hmayak
Hovanisyan in his interview with the Lragir, commenting on developments
inside the government.
Lragir: Mr. Hovanisyan, what is your opinion on the mobilization of
the Republican Party around Serge Sargsyan?
It is an attempt to establish a super political party following the
model of Yedinaya Rosia Party in Russia, which became a ruling super
party and, on the other hand, it lost its political image. Although
Yedinaya Rosia had never had a political image. The case of the
Republican Party is a little different. The Republican Party had an
image, its own perceptions, and founded by my friend Ashot Navasardyan,
it occupied its place in our newly established political sphere. Now on
becoming a ruling party it is losing this image, which is inevitable.
Lragir: In other words, you think that with Serge Sargsyan's membership
the Republican Party started losing its image.
The political party will increasingly become ingrown in the government
and serve the needs of the government, naturally departing from
its origins.
Although it would not be inevitable if they had made efforts to enhance
the wing of public political figures in the political party. This
wing is worn out.
Lragir: Which is that wing?
I will not specify names. This wing is worn out. It is increasingly
becoming humble with regard to the oligarchic sets representing
immense economic interests and administrative potential.
Lragir: Do you mean the sets which are beside Serge Sargsyan?
Serge Sargsyan has not announced yet which wing will be with him. It
will become clear as soon as he assumes a definite role in the
political party, a definite status rather than a formal one.
Lragir: But the sets that will go with him are known. Some sets of
businessmen oligarchs have announced that they go to the Republican
Party because the minister of defense goes there too.
Well, these people nominate themselves, but Serge Sargsyan has great
power potential and he can decide the question eventually. If the
Republican Party becomes a super party like Yedinaya Rosia Party,
it should be taken into account that what is permitted to Jupiter is
not permitted to the ox.
Lragir: In other words?
Russia is undergoing heavy strictures from the international community
for the totalitarian, a state of renaissance, which is felt in Russia
or interpreted by many experts and the international community. The
repetition of this situation in Armenia may lead to more grave
consequences than just strictures.
Because unlike Russia, which has oil dollars, Armenia is not
self-sifficient and depends on the injections from the West.
Lragir: Robert Kocharyan is responsible for injections from the
West. Why should Serge Sargsyan be concerned about what the West
would tell Robert Kocharyan?
You are viewing from the aspect of current interests of the government,
whereas I view the problem from the point that Serge Sargsyan is,
nevertheless, a serious political figure, and if he takes that step,
he should take into account that this heavy burden will fall on
his shoulders.
Lragir: You have mentioned once that Serge Sargsyan will not become
member of any political party, because he wants to become president
and must have an image of a neutral figure. What happened that made
him go to the Republican?
This is the option of force majeure. I had pointed to two options. One
is what you said, the other is the force majeure, if force majeure
occurs in the Karabakh issue, if serious challenges emerge with
regard to reproduction of power, and there are such challenges,
because I nevertheless think that the leakage of the co-chairs and
the statements of Mathew Bryza and Sabine Freizer were meant to reach
political changes. Considering this, force majeure is evident. For
this option involving force majeure, I said Serge Sargsyan would
lead a party ticket, the ticket of the Republican Party, which will
become a super political party and will bring together all the other
government forces, and a strong force will emerge which will include
all the resource of the government.
Lragir.am: Do you mean Bargavach Hayastan Party?
Yes.
Lragir.am: So will Bargavach Hayastan join the Republican Party -
Serge Sargsyan "coalition"?
Yes. Yes. Bargavach Hayastan, maybe also the Unification for Armenia,
because if Bargavach Hayastan joins, the unification of two equal
units will be underlying PR. Therefore not only Bargavach Hayastan
but also Unification for Armenia will join in to have different PR,
to report that the super political party with its satellites is going
to an election campaign. I thinks this will happen, and this is the
option involving force majeure. Today the challenges are obvious. Look
at the parameters of this challenge: complication of the Karabakh
issue, suspended 235 million dollars of the Millennium Challenge and
the frozen Lincy Foundation.
Lragir.am: But the unification of the Republican Party and Serge
Sargsyan itself may lead to force majeure in terms of the negative
attitude of the West.
What's the point in looking for this way out from this force majeure
if it may cause other force majeure?
A wedge is driven out with a wedge. Because there is no other way
out, because this is not the main reason for dissatisfaction. This
unification, the creation of a super political party may increase
dissatisfaction, but this is not the main cause of dissatisfaction.
Lragir.am: And what is the main reason?
The main reasons are much deeper. Having an opportunity to use the
negotiations to strengthen their own clans in their countries, the
presidents of both Armenia and Azerbaijan, recognizing this carte
blanche, did not repay as they had promised, to reach results in
the negotiations. In other words, the co-chairs understood that the
negotiations are used as a screen and at the same time are abused by
both presidents, and they announced that they are tired of it, openly
and clearly. They realized that the clans of Armenia and Azerbaijan
are making an effort to establish this state of the talks forever and
use the unsettled issue for the interests of their own clan interests,
as a carte blanche, and democratization in Armenia and Azerbaijan have
become a hostage of the unsettled issue. Therefore, an effort is made
to untie this Gordian knot at once, either this or that. Either you
agree to these statements or we undertake serious pressure.
Lragir.am: If the Armenian side, which has announced about it for a
number of times, agrees to make a compromise, what force majeure is
concerned, why should the West make pressure on the Armenian side if
it is willing to make a compromise?
Because they understand that this cannot last forever. There are no
guarantees that tomorrow Azerbaijan will not say yes, I agree. And
imagine what the situation will be at that time, if today Kiro Manoyan
has said not a patch of land.
Lragir.am: Mr. Hovanisyan, why should Bargavach Hayastan join the
Republican Party, if it has enough money and reputation to anticipate
significant success in the elections?
For Gagik Tsarukyan not to appear in the same situation as Berezovsky
or Khodorkovsky.
Lragir.am: Do you mean that the president will do that?
No.
Lragir.am: Who, Robert Kocharyan?
No, no, the government.
Lragir.am: Who is this government?
The government is already irretrievably and consistently moving from
Robert Kocharyan's to Serge Sargsyan's field. In fact, this fall
the entire government resource will be moved from Robert Kocharyan's
"bottle" to Serge Sargsyan 's "reservoir".
Lragir.am: In other words, Robert Kocahryan becomes a "British queen".
It is the fate of every president after the second term. Even if we do
not take into consideration the complicated situation over Karabakh,
every president stops being the only bearer of power over the last
one and a half year of his office. The heir of power, one and a half
year before the change of power, entirely gets hold of power de facto
if inheriting power is concerned. The model of inheriting power has
been applied to our country.
Lragir.am: But Robert Kocharyan is not likely to pass over power,
therefore he has launched the project of Bargavach Hayastan.
It is not for this purpose.
Lragir.am: What is the purpose then?
In order to have Andranik Margaryan obey, and the Republican Party
admit obediently the leading factor of Serge Sargsyan. Serge Sargsyan
not with the same status as during the former election but with
a new status, as a political party, as a leader of the political
party. Therefore, Bargavach Hayastan was given a carte blanche. You
know, Gagik Tsarukyan has immense possibilities, he is very rich,
but even if he gives away all his possessions, he cannot get one
advantage of Hmayak Hovanisyan. Hmayak Hovanisyan cannot be accused
of violating the law, tax avoidance, plunder. He does not have this
advantage, neither do all the other oligarchs.
Lragir.am: Is Robert Kocharyan unable to protect Gagik Tsarukyan and
go all the way to win parliamentary majority?
Why do I refer to Serge Sargsyan as Fouchet? Joseph Fouchet. Why do I
refer to him so? You should read "Joseph Fouchet" by Stefan Zweig. You
will see what Fouchet was and who Fouchet was. Fouchet could get rid
of anyone, independent from Napoleon.
Lragir.am: Could he get rid of Napoleon?
Yes, Napoleon knew that Fouchet betrayed him but he did not dismiss
him.
Lragir.am: Can Serge Sargsyan get rid of Robert Kocharyan too?
Fouchet had such files.
Lragir.am: Is there no one who has files on Fouchet?
One needs to be a Fouchet as well. One needs to be double Fouchet.
Lragir.am: Isn't there such a person?
One needs to have levers. After all, Joseph Fouchet was the minister
of police, and served the interests of royalists, later under the
Jacobins, under Robespierre he was the minister of police, both under
and after Napoleon, during the period of restoration. Serge Sargsyan
is the same, he was under Levon Ter-Petrosyan, Vazgen Sargsyan,
Robert Kocharyan.
Lragir.am: Isn't it possible that others have compiled files on him?
One needs to have the talent of Fouchet. His talent was compiling
files.
Who, whom, when and how much, and in what kind of case. So here is
a person who has this ability and this is Fouchet.
Lragir.am: But sometimes people who have more information are more
endangered, aren't they.
It is a philosophical issue.
Lragir.am
12 July 06
The Republican Party - Serge Sargsyan alliance emerged as a result of
force majeure in both external and internal policies. Under different
circumstances a non-partisan status would be more expedient for the
political future of Serge Sargsyan, said Member of Parliament Hmayak
Hovanisyan in his interview with the Lragir, commenting on developments
inside the government.
Lragir: Mr. Hovanisyan, what is your opinion on the mobilization of
the Republican Party around Serge Sargsyan?
It is an attempt to establish a super political party following the
model of Yedinaya Rosia Party in Russia, which became a ruling super
party and, on the other hand, it lost its political image. Although
Yedinaya Rosia had never had a political image. The case of the
Republican Party is a little different. The Republican Party had an
image, its own perceptions, and founded by my friend Ashot Navasardyan,
it occupied its place in our newly established political sphere. Now on
becoming a ruling party it is losing this image, which is inevitable.
Lragir: In other words, you think that with Serge Sargsyan's membership
the Republican Party started losing its image.
The political party will increasingly become ingrown in the government
and serve the needs of the government, naturally departing from
its origins.
Although it would not be inevitable if they had made efforts to enhance
the wing of public political figures in the political party. This
wing is worn out.
Lragir: Which is that wing?
I will not specify names. This wing is worn out. It is increasingly
becoming humble with regard to the oligarchic sets representing
immense economic interests and administrative potential.
Lragir: Do you mean the sets which are beside Serge Sargsyan?
Serge Sargsyan has not announced yet which wing will be with him. It
will become clear as soon as he assumes a definite role in the
political party, a definite status rather than a formal one.
Lragir: But the sets that will go with him are known. Some sets of
businessmen oligarchs have announced that they go to the Republican
Party because the minister of defense goes there too.
Well, these people nominate themselves, but Serge Sargsyan has great
power potential and he can decide the question eventually. If the
Republican Party becomes a super party like Yedinaya Rosia Party,
it should be taken into account that what is permitted to Jupiter is
not permitted to the ox.
Lragir: In other words?
Russia is undergoing heavy strictures from the international community
for the totalitarian, a state of renaissance, which is felt in Russia
or interpreted by many experts and the international community. The
repetition of this situation in Armenia may lead to more grave
consequences than just strictures.
Because unlike Russia, which has oil dollars, Armenia is not
self-sifficient and depends on the injections from the West.
Lragir: Robert Kocharyan is responsible for injections from the
West. Why should Serge Sargsyan be concerned about what the West
would tell Robert Kocharyan?
You are viewing from the aspect of current interests of the government,
whereas I view the problem from the point that Serge Sargsyan is,
nevertheless, a serious political figure, and if he takes that step,
he should take into account that this heavy burden will fall on
his shoulders.
Lragir: You have mentioned once that Serge Sargsyan will not become
member of any political party, because he wants to become president
and must have an image of a neutral figure. What happened that made
him go to the Republican?
This is the option of force majeure. I had pointed to two options. One
is what you said, the other is the force majeure, if force majeure
occurs in the Karabakh issue, if serious challenges emerge with
regard to reproduction of power, and there are such challenges,
because I nevertheless think that the leakage of the co-chairs and
the statements of Mathew Bryza and Sabine Freizer were meant to reach
political changes. Considering this, force majeure is evident. For
this option involving force majeure, I said Serge Sargsyan would
lead a party ticket, the ticket of the Republican Party, which will
become a super political party and will bring together all the other
government forces, and a strong force will emerge which will include
all the resource of the government.
Lragir.am: Do you mean Bargavach Hayastan Party?
Yes.
Lragir.am: So will Bargavach Hayastan join the Republican Party -
Serge Sargsyan "coalition"?
Yes. Yes. Bargavach Hayastan, maybe also the Unification for Armenia,
because if Bargavach Hayastan joins, the unification of two equal
units will be underlying PR. Therefore not only Bargavach Hayastan
but also Unification for Armenia will join in to have different PR,
to report that the super political party with its satellites is going
to an election campaign. I thinks this will happen, and this is the
option involving force majeure. Today the challenges are obvious. Look
at the parameters of this challenge: complication of the Karabakh
issue, suspended 235 million dollars of the Millennium Challenge and
the frozen Lincy Foundation.
Lragir.am: But the unification of the Republican Party and Serge
Sargsyan itself may lead to force majeure in terms of the negative
attitude of the West.
What's the point in looking for this way out from this force majeure
if it may cause other force majeure?
A wedge is driven out with a wedge. Because there is no other way
out, because this is not the main reason for dissatisfaction. This
unification, the creation of a super political party may increase
dissatisfaction, but this is not the main cause of dissatisfaction.
Lragir.am: And what is the main reason?
The main reasons are much deeper. Having an opportunity to use the
negotiations to strengthen their own clans in their countries, the
presidents of both Armenia and Azerbaijan, recognizing this carte
blanche, did not repay as they had promised, to reach results in
the negotiations. In other words, the co-chairs understood that the
negotiations are used as a screen and at the same time are abused by
both presidents, and they announced that they are tired of it, openly
and clearly. They realized that the clans of Armenia and Azerbaijan
are making an effort to establish this state of the talks forever and
use the unsettled issue for the interests of their own clan interests,
as a carte blanche, and democratization in Armenia and Azerbaijan have
become a hostage of the unsettled issue. Therefore, an effort is made
to untie this Gordian knot at once, either this or that. Either you
agree to these statements or we undertake serious pressure.
Lragir.am: If the Armenian side, which has announced about it for a
number of times, agrees to make a compromise, what force majeure is
concerned, why should the West make pressure on the Armenian side if
it is willing to make a compromise?
Because they understand that this cannot last forever. There are no
guarantees that tomorrow Azerbaijan will not say yes, I agree. And
imagine what the situation will be at that time, if today Kiro Manoyan
has said not a patch of land.
Lragir.am: Mr. Hovanisyan, why should Bargavach Hayastan join the
Republican Party, if it has enough money and reputation to anticipate
significant success in the elections?
For Gagik Tsarukyan not to appear in the same situation as Berezovsky
or Khodorkovsky.
Lragir.am: Do you mean that the president will do that?
No.
Lragir.am: Who, Robert Kocharyan?
No, no, the government.
Lragir.am: Who is this government?
The government is already irretrievably and consistently moving from
Robert Kocharyan's to Serge Sargsyan's field. In fact, this fall
the entire government resource will be moved from Robert Kocharyan's
"bottle" to Serge Sargsyan 's "reservoir".
Lragir.am: In other words, Robert Kocahryan becomes a "British queen".
It is the fate of every president after the second term. Even if we do
not take into consideration the complicated situation over Karabakh,
every president stops being the only bearer of power over the last
one and a half year of his office. The heir of power, one and a half
year before the change of power, entirely gets hold of power de facto
if inheriting power is concerned. The model of inheriting power has
been applied to our country.
Lragir.am: But Robert Kocharyan is not likely to pass over power,
therefore he has launched the project of Bargavach Hayastan.
It is not for this purpose.
Lragir.am: What is the purpose then?
In order to have Andranik Margaryan obey, and the Republican Party
admit obediently the leading factor of Serge Sargsyan. Serge Sargsyan
not with the same status as during the former election but with
a new status, as a political party, as a leader of the political
party. Therefore, Bargavach Hayastan was given a carte blanche. You
know, Gagik Tsarukyan has immense possibilities, he is very rich,
but even if he gives away all his possessions, he cannot get one
advantage of Hmayak Hovanisyan. Hmayak Hovanisyan cannot be accused
of violating the law, tax avoidance, plunder. He does not have this
advantage, neither do all the other oligarchs.
Lragir.am: Is Robert Kocharyan unable to protect Gagik Tsarukyan and
go all the way to win parliamentary majority?
Why do I refer to Serge Sargsyan as Fouchet? Joseph Fouchet. Why do I
refer to him so? You should read "Joseph Fouchet" by Stefan Zweig. You
will see what Fouchet was and who Fouchet was. Fouchet could get rid
of anyone, independent from Napoleon.
Lragir.am: Could he get rid of Napoleon?
Yes, Napoleon knew that Fouchet betrayed him but he did not dismiss
him.
Lragir.am: Can Serge Sargsyan get rid of Robert Kocharyan too?
Fouchet had such files.
Lragir.am: Is there no one who has files on Fouchet?
One needs to be a Fouchet as well. One needs to be double Fouchet.
Lragir.am: Isn't there such a person?
One needs to have levers. After all, Joseph Fouchet was the minister
of police, and served the interests of royalists, later under the
Jacobins, under Robespierre he was the minister of police, both under
and after Napoleon, during the period of restoration. Serge Sargsyan
is the same, he was under Levon Ter-Petrosyan, Vazgen Sargsyan,
Robert Kocharyan.
Lragir.am: Isn't it possible that others have compiled files on him?
One needs to have the talent of Fouchet. His talent was compiling
files.
Who, whom, when and how much, and in what kind of case. So here is
a person who has this ability and this is Fouchet.
Lragir.am: But sometimes people who have more information are more
endangered, aren't they.
It is a philosophical issue.