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The Standard, Kenya
June 30 2006
Artur brothers `were to be deported to Armenia'
By Biketi Kikechi and Patrick Mathangani
The following are excerpts from Thursday's examination of witness
number two, Joseph Kathuri Ndathi, the Principal Immigration Officer,
by Kiruki Commission assisting counsel Warui Mungai.
Mungai: My lords, appearance as yesterday and we are ready to
continue.
Kiruki: Mr Ndathi, let me remind you that you are still on oath,
proceed.
Mungai: Is it possible to use a deportation order that is not
cancelled to travel back to the country?
A bird's eye view of the Kiruki Commission of inquiry sitting at the
Kenyatta International Conference Centre, Nairobi, on Thursday. Pic
by Jacob Otieno
Ndathi: My lords, whether this documents is cancelled or not, it is
not practical for you to go to another country and then that country
allows you to come back. It is internationally accepted that it is a
one-way document and to me whether you cancel it or not, it is not
possible to return while using it.
Mungai: What about the air ticket? Who must request that?
Ndathi: In circumstances where a traveller has an air ticket, he
would be allowed to use it, but in a situation where you don't have
money, the Government is bound to prepare a ticket for you to be
deported.
Ndathi: So, the Government buys the ticket and gives you?
Ndathi: Yes, the Government will buy the ticket but at that time you
are not a free person. So either immigration officers or police
officers will escort you to the airport and hand over your ticket to
the carrier.
Mungai: Is it possible for the Government to buy you a return ticket?
Ndathi: That will be a miracle. They don't deport you because you are
wanted.
Kiruki: Can a person who has been deported from this country go and
return?
Ndathi: Mr chairman, I have said he can return illegally and as I
have already explained there are people who travel by air all the way
from Bombay to Entebbe before crossing back into the country by road.
Mungai: Is there any provision in the Act?
Ndathi: There is a provision and it is true the minister can revoke
the order.
Mungai: Let us now deal with the Artur brothers. When did you first
learn about the presence of these people in the country?
Ndathi: I think, my lords from a practical point of view, when you
are at the headquarters it is not possible to get all the information
about who and who is entering the country unless there are specific
issues that are required. But having said that, I think although we
had handled their documents prior to when they started appearing in
the newspaper I cannot tell the Commission that those were the kind
of people we were dealing with. But according to our records, they
came into the country last year.
Kiruki: When?
Ndathi: My lords, my officer from the airport will come to give
specific dates.
Mungai: I want your opinion. When did you first learn of their
presence here?
Ndathi: My lords, I can specifically say, it is from the day we
issued these two brothers with entry permits.
Mungai: Do you remember the date?
Ndathi: Yes, it was on January 23rd.
Mungai: Last year?
Ndathi: No, on January 23rd this year.
Kiruki: That is when you first heard about it?
Ndathi: That is when we issued them with entry permits and at that
particular time there were no issues about the brothers.
Kiruki: When you issued them with entry permits, did you issue them
with the `R' number?
Ndathi: They were issued with an `R' number, their file was vetted
like other files by NSIS, they were issued with requisition, their
file was summarised, the application was forwarded to the ministerial
committee. It was then approved and paid for.
Mungai: That is fine. Let us now look at the press release that I
took the minister through yesterday. The minister said he received
information from the immigration department. Did you pass such
information to the minister?
Ndathi: My lords, I remember it was the time when I accompanied the
minister on an official trip to Western region. The press people met
the minister after he arrived that morning from his rural
constituency.
I recall him saying, `I have just come from my constituency. What I
can tell you is what I have just read from the newspaper. These
people could be Czechs, Armenians or Russians.'
We later called Nairobi to confirm their nationality and based on the
records held in the files those people were Armenians.
Mungai: I want to show you two files marked 1B and 1C. Did the
information you gave the minister come from those files?
Ndathi: My lord commissioners, yes. The information in folio says
their nationality was Republic of Armenia and that is the information
I gave to the minister.
Mungai: Did you confirm with Armenia that they were their citizens
before giving the minister that information?
Ndathi: Not our office.
Mungai: Your office relies entirely on the information provided by
the applicant, is that so?
Ndathi: Yes.
Mungai: Confirm to the commissioners whether the procedures that they
followed were proper?
Ndathi: My lords, to the best of my knowledge, that was the standard
procedure.
Mungai: I want us to go through the files with you. You can have one.
I have one.
Ndathi: Yes, my lords.
Mungai: Let us look at folio one. That is the personal identification
for a company by the name Brother Link International Ltd. Have you
seen it?
Ndathi: Yes, my lords.
Mungai: Was their any verification of the PIN (Personal
Identification Number) before your department accepted the same?
Ndathi: My lords, we don't undertake verification on documents that
are forwarded to us by applicants unless we suspect that whoever is
bringing the documents is a criminal.
Kiruki: Mr PIO you have been having that file when people have been
making a lot of kelele (noise). Did you notice anything peculiar
about that applicant?
Ndathi: My lords, I wouldn't say I have seen anything peculiar,
because all the requirements on a permit application are basically
there.
Kiruki: Up to now?
Ndathi: It is now that discoveries are being made that these
documents are basically fake.
Kiruki: At what stage did you know that some of the information given
to you could be not true?
Ndathi: I think until at the time when police reported to us that
these people were dangerous fellows and they required to be deported.
Kiruki: Was that brought to your attention?
Ndathi: Yes, that was on 9th of this month.
Kiruki: You didn't know before that there was anything wrong with
these people?
Ndathi: My lords, we never had any problems with those people before
that.
Kiruki: Carry on please.
Mungai: Let us go to folio two where we have particulars for
incorporation for the same company. Did you verify the authenticity
of that document from the Registrar of Companies?
Ndathi: My lords, I can say it wasn't done because there is no
evidence that it was done.
Mungai: So you didn't know who were the directors and the
shareholders of that company?
Ndathi: The details of the shareholders are indicated in the
application.
Mungai: But did you check?
Ndathi: My lords, what I'm saying is that when you forward an
application, you enclose required documents.
Mungai: That verification was not done, is that so?
Ndathi: The verification of an application form is not mandatory.
Mungai: I want to refer you to a document here, which was referred to
by the minister yesterday. (Reads a report by Interpol, which
indicated the Arturs travelled on stolen passports.) Had you seen
this report before?
Ndathi: My lords before I answer that, I require a clarification.
This report emanated from Interpol of which country?
Mungai: Open the next page. You can see on top there at the top. It
was in Nairobi as of March 18.
Ndathi: My lords I'm seeing this report for the first time.
Mungai: Look at the report where Interpol in Armenia has said
`Margaryan Artur'. It says a person by the name Artur Sargasyan who
is in Armenia received a passport number AF0599780. And it is said
not to have left Armenia.
Ndathi: It is the same number.
Mungai: Again had you received that letter, what would you have done?
Ndathi: The permit would have been declared void, the person ought to
have been arrested and taken to court.
Mungai: Let's now come to the deportation order signed by the
minister. We heard from the minister yesterday that he received a
request from you that he signs deportation orders. Is it correct that
you gave that information?
Ndathi: My lords it's correct. On the 9th of this month, I did
receive communication from the commissioner and his staff that these
four persons must be deported by the end of the day.
Mungai: How did you receive the communication?
Ndathi: It was on telephone and he did send his senior deputy
commissioner to his office, Mr Kimaiyo, who came accompanied by PCIO
Nairobi area and DCIO Central and discussed the modalities. We
decided they were dangerous criminals who must be deported. On
receiving that information, I went to the minister's office, I
briefed him that on the way they had been appearing on the national
papers there appeared to be serious security issues that are being
raised by the Commissioner of Police.
Mungai: Were there any particular issues which had necessitated that
request?
Ndathi: My lords, my officer had made a request on the telephone
although later he prepared a small brief that they had caused a
fracas at the airport within customs area although they had already
left. I also got information that they had been arrested in the wee
hours of the night.
Mungai: What action did you take?
Ndathi: I briefed my minister and he agreed they were a security
concern. We agreed to prepare a deportation order. They were signed
by the minister and executed accordingly.
Mungai: Look at the deportation order again, that of Artur Margaryan.
Where was he supposed to be deported to?
Ndathi: They were supposed to have been deported to Armenia.
Mungai: We have information that they were deported to Dubai. What
necessitated that?
Ndathi: They did indicate that they are residents of Dubai, where
they were staying and had their businesses.
The law is very clear. It says a person who an order is given shall
be removed to the place where he came or with the approval of the
minister to a country where he belongs.
These people had come from Dubai, and they requested to be taken
where they came from and the law allows that.
The hearing continues.
June 30 2006
Artur brothers `were to be deported to Armenia'
By Biketi Kikechi and Patrick Mathangani
The following are excerpts from Thursday's examination of witness
number two, Joseph Kathuri Ndathi, the Principal Immigration Officer,
by Kiruki Commission assisting counsel Warui Mungai.
Mungai: My lords, appearance as yesterday and we are ready to
continue.
Kiruki: Mr Ndathi, let me remind you that you are still on oath,
proceed.
Mungai: Is it possible to use a deportation order that is not
cancelled to travel back to the country?
A bird's eye view of the Kiruki Commission of inquiry sitting at the
Kenyatta International Conference Centre, Nairobi, on Thursday. Pic
by Jacob Otieno
Ndathi: My lords, whether this documents is cancelled or not, it is
not practical for you to go to another country and then that country
allows you to come back. It is internationally accepted that it is a
one-way document and to me whether you cancel it or not, it is not
possible to return while using it.
Mungai: What about the air ticket? Who must request that?
Ndathi: In circumstances where a traveller has an air ticket, he
would be allowed to use it, but in a situation where you don't have
money, the Government is bound to prepare a ticket for you to be
deported.
Ndathi: So, the Government buys the ticket and gives you?
Ndathi: Yes, the Government will buy the ticket but at that time you
are not a free person. So either immigration officers or police
officers will escort you to the airport and hand over your ticket to
the carrier.
Mungai: Is it possible for the Government to buy you a return ticket?
Ndathi: That will be a miracle. They don't deport you because you are
wanted.
Kiruki: Can a person who has been deported from this country go and
return?
Ndathi: Mr chairman, I have said he can return illegally and as I
have already explained there are people who travel by air all the way
from Bombay to Entebbe before crossing back into the country by road.
Mungai: Is there any provision in the Act?
Ndathi: There is a provision and it is true the minister can revoke
the order.
Mungai: Let us now deal with the Artur brothers. When did you first
learn about the presence of these people in the country?
Ndathi: I think, my lords from a practical point of view, when you
are at the headquarters it is not possible to get all the information
about who and who is entering the country unless there are specific
issues that are required. But having said that, I think although we
had handled their documents prior to when they started appearing in
the newspaper I cannot tell the Commission that those were the kind
of people we were dealing with. But according to our records, they
came into the country last year.
Kiruki: When?
Ndathi: My lords, my officer from the airport will come to give
specific dates.
Mungai: I want your opinion. When did you first learn of their
presence here?
Ndathi: My lords, I can specifically say, it is from the day we
issued these two brothers with entry permits.
Mungai: Do you remember the date?
Ndathi: Yes, it was on January 23rd.
Mungai: Last year?
Ndathi: No, on January 23rd this year.
Kiruki: That is when you first heard about it?
Ndathi: That is when we issued them with entry permits and at that
particular time there were no issues about the brothers.
Kiruki: When you issued them with entry permits, did you issue them
with the `R' number?
Ndathi: They were issued with an `R' number, their file was vetted
like other files by NSIS, they were issued with requisition, their
file was summarised, the application was forwarded to the ministerial
committee. It was then approved and paid for.
Mungai: That is fine. Let us now look at the press release that I
took the minister through yesterday. The minister said he received
information from the immigration department. Did you pass such
information to the minister?
Ndathi: My lords, I remember it was the time when I accompanied the
minister on an official trip to Western region. The press people met
the minister after he arrived that morning from his rural
constituency.
I recall him saying, `I have just come from my constituency. What I
can tell you is what I have just read from the newspaper. These
people could be Czechs, Armenians or Russians.'
We later called Nairobi to confirm their nationality and based on the
records held in the files those people were Armenians.
Mungai: I want to show you two files marked 1B and 1C. Did the
information you gave the minister come from those files?
Ndathi: My lord commissioners, yes. The information in folio says
their nationality was Republic of Armenia and that is the information
I gave to the minister.
Mungai: Did you confirm with Armenia that they were their citizens
before giving the minister that information?
Ndathi: Not our office.
Mungai: Your office relies entirely on the information provided by
the applicant, is that so?
Ndathi: Yes.
Mungai: Confirm to the commissioners whether the procedures that they
followed were proper?
Ndathi: My lords, to the best of my knowledge, that was the standard
procedure.
Mungai: I want us to go through the files with you. You can have one.
I have one.
Ndathi: Yes, my lords.
Mungai: Let us look at folio one. That is the personal identification
for a company by the name Brother Link International Ltd. Have you
seen it?
Ndathi: Yes, my lords.
Mungai: Was their any verification of the PIN (Personal
Identification Number) before your department accepted the same?
Ndathi: My lords, we don't undertake verification on documents that
are forwarded to us by applicants unless we suspect that whoever is
bringing the documents is a criminal.
Kiruki: Mr PIO you have been having that file when people have been
making a lot of kelele (noise). Did you notice anything peculiar
about that applicant?
Ndathi: My lords, I wouldn't say I have seen anything peculiar,
because all the requirements on a permit application are basically
there.
Kiruki: Up to now?
Ndathi: It is now that discoveries are being made that these
documents are basically fake.
Kiruki: At what stage did you know that some of the information given
to you could be not true?
Ndathi: I think until at the time when police reported to us that
these people were dangerous fellows and they required to be deported.
Kiruki: Was that brought to your attention?
Ndathi: Yes, that was on 9th of this month.
Kiruki: You didn't know before that there was anything wrong with
these people?
Ndathi: My lords, we never had any problems with those people before
that.
Kiruki: Carry on please.
Mungai: Let us go to folio two where we have particulars for
incorporation for the same company. Did you verify the authenticity
of that document from the Registrar of Companies?
Ndathi: My lords, I can say it wasn't done because there is no
evidence that it was done.
Mungai: So you didn't know who were the directors and the
shareholders of that company?
Ndathi: The details of the shareholders are indicated in the
application.
Mungai: But did you check?
Ndathi: My lords, what I'm saying is that when you forward an
application, you enclose required documents.
Mungai: That verification was not done, is that so?
Ndathi: The verification of an application form is not mandatory.
Mungai: I want to refer you to a document here, which was referred to
by the minister yesterday. (Reads a report by Interpol, which
indicated the Arturs travelled on stolen passports.) Had you seen
this report before?
Ndathi: My lords before I answer that, I require a clarification.
This report emanated from Interpol of which country?
Mungai: Open the next page. You can see on top there at the top. It
was in Nairobi as of March 18.
Ndathi: My lords I'm seeing this report for the first time.
Mungai: Look at the report where Interpol in Armenia has said
`Margaryan Artur'. It says a person by the name Artur Sargasyan who
is in Armenia received a passport number AF0599780. And it is said
not to have left Armenia.
Ndathi: It is the same number.
Mungai: Again had you received that letter, what would you have done?
Ndathi: The permit would have been declared void, the person ought to
have been arrested and taken to court.
Mungai: Let's now come to the deportation order signed by the
minister. We heard from the minister yesterday that he received a
request from you that he signs deportation orders. Is it correct that
you gave that information?
Ndathi: My lords it's correct. On the 9th of this month, I did
receive communication from the commissioner and his staff that these
four persons must be deported by the end of the day.
Mungai: How did you receive the communication?
Ndathi: It was on telephone and he did send his senior deputy
commissioner to his office, Mr Kimaiyo, who came accompanied by PCIO
Nairobi area and DCIO Central and discussed the modalities. We
decided they were dangerous criminals who must be deported. On
receiving that information, I went to the minister's office, I
briefed him that on the way they had been appearing on the national
papers there appeared to be serious security issues that are being
raised by the Commissioner of Police.
Mungai: Were there any particular issues which had necessitated that
request?
Ndathi: My lords, my officer had made a request on the telephone
although later he prepared a small brief that they had caused a
fracas at the airport within customs area although they had already
left. I also got information that they had been arrested in the wee
hours of the night.
Mungai: What action did you take?
Ndathi: I briefed my minister and he agreed they were a security
concern. We agreed to prepare a deportation order. They were signed
by the minister and executed accordingly.
Mungai: Look at the deportation order again, that of Artur Margaryan.
Where was he supposed to be deported to?
Ndathi: They were supposed to have been deported to Armenia.
Mungai: We have information that they were deported to Dubai. What
necessitated that?
Ndathi: They did indicate that they are residents of Dubai, where
they were staying and had their businesses.
The law is very clear. It says a person who an order is given shall
be removed to the place where he came or with the approval of the
minister to a country where he belongs.
These people had come from Dubai, and they requested to be taken
where they came from and the law allows that.
The hearing continues.