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DeFacto Agency, Armenia
March 23 2006
`VISIT OF DARTMOUTH CONFERENCE WORKING GROUP CO-CHAIRS TO REGION IS
QUITE SYMPTOMATIC', ARAM G. SARGSYAN BELIEVES
The Co-Chairs of the working group on Nagorno Karabakh within frames
of the Russian-American Dartmouth Conference for the regional
conflicts Harold Saunders and Vitaly Naumkin intend to visit
Azerbaijan, Armenia and NKR. March 27-28 they will visit Baku, March
29-30 - Yerevan, and then the Co-Chair will leave for Stepanakert. To
note, the forthcoming visit is the first in the history of the
Dartmouth process on Nagorno Karabakh that began in October 2001. A
member of the Armenian delegation, RA Democratic Party leader Aram G.
Sargsyan told about the goals and program of the Co-Chairs' visit.
- What is the principal goal of a visit of the Co-Chairs of the
working group on Nagorno Karabakh within the frames of the
Russian-American Dartmouth Conference?
- During 4-5 years the working group on Nagorno Karabakh within the
frames of the Russian-American Dartmouth Conference worked to secure
any agreement with the three parties - delegations of the Azeri,
Armenian and Nagorno Karabakh public. The talks' first rounds were
very complicated, as the sides mainly exchanged mutual claims. We
reached a consensus concerning the Framework Agreement's text only by
the eighth - ninth round of the negotiations. At first the text was
titled `Framework Agreement on the Peaceful Process in the Region of
Azerbaijan, Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh'. Later, in the course of
the ninth round, the Azeri party requested that an expression `in the
region of Azerbaijan, Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh' should be
withdrawn.
In my onion - actually, other participants of the dialogue on
Karabakh share this viewpoint as well - we have attained a very
important outcome. First, it is the only format of the talks with the
Karabakh party's participation. That is to say, for the first time
during the whole history of the Karabakh issue settlement the three
parties have reached a consensus on the fact that only peace process,
and yet full-scale, involving general public, can result in a stable
peace in the region. I am absolutely sure that the very approach is
correct and long-term, as the search for a political solution of the
Karabakh issue, in my deep conviction, is a deadlock. I am aware of
the fact that after everything done by the OSCE Minsk group, so many
meetings conducted between the Armenian and Azeri Presidents, it is
quite difficult to deny it even from the psychological point of view.
I believe the new ideas should be thoroughly transformed in a
peaceful process on the Karabakh conflict settlement. It is not only
my own viewpoint, those participating in the talks within the
Dartmouth Conference frames, who approved the draft Framework
Agreement, share my opinion as well. The Co-Chairs of the working
group on Karabakh Harold Saunders - the former U.S. Deputy State
Secretary, an experienced diplomat, and Vitaly Naumkin - President of
the Center for Strategic Studies, a famous politologist, as well as
their assistants Philip Stewart and Irina Zvyaginskaya, will arrive
in the region in the near future. The principal goal of the visit is
propaganda of the draft Framework Agreement on the peaceful process
and seconding efforts of representatives of the three countries'
public.
- What is the visit's program?
- It is a very short visit: 27-28 they will be in Baku, 29-30 - in
Yerevan, March 31 - April 1 the delegation will visit Stepanakert. We
plan to conduct `a round table' with the Armenian experts'
participation in Yerevan. Meetings with leaders of the RA political
parties have been scheduled. A meeting with the Armenian delegation
taking part in the talks within the Dartmouth Conference frames is to
be held. The official meetings are not ruled out; however, the issue
is being coordinated with RA Ministry of Foreign Affairs. A meeting
with Chair of the Permanent Parliamentary Commission for Foreign
Issues Armen Rustamyan has already been charted. Harold Saunders and
Vitaly Naumkin will also participate in a press conference. I would
like to note that it is the visit's preliminary program; it is quite
possible that modifications may be made in it.
-The Dartmouth process on Karabakh has been lasting for five years.
However, only now the working group Co-Chairs Harold Saunders and
Vitaly Naumkin found it necessary to visit the region. How can you
comment on the fact? In your opinion, is the forthcoming visit
connected with the failure of the Armenian and Azeri Presidents'
Rambouillet meeting?
- First of all, the visit is conditioned by the fact that, as I have
already mentioned, we have finally reached a consensus in the course
of the ninth round of the talks for such a long period of time.
However, undoubtedly, I link the visit with the Kocharyan-Aliyev
Presidents' meeting in Rambouillet. I should say that the OSCE Minsk
group is quite well informed of the steps being undertaken by our
working group. RF MFA and the U.S. State Department follow the
process very actively. Our working group on Karabakh is a sort of a
model group that elaborates possible levels of consent between the
nations. During a year we published the draft Framework Agreement in
press several times. I suggested (not directly, but via mass media)
that the Armenian authorities should consider the issue. However,
representatives of the leadership have not responded to my proposal.
Meanwhile, the Nagorno Karabakh authorities have treated the document
very positively.
- Has the Azeri leadership reacted upon the project?
- I have no information on the reaction to the draft Agreement in
Baku. However, everyone knows that Azeris sing just one song -
`Return our territory to us'. I consider the coming visit is not
occasional and connect it with the talks in Rambouillet. The
Rambouillet meeting is not just failure, it is fiasco. Each party
insists that the territory belongs to it. Unless there is retreat
from the positions, we will not manage to find a solution. And yet
the deviation is not likely to take place. Our proposal on a
full-scale peace process presumes a number of other decisions as
well. For instance, it supposes economic cooperation, which, in the
end, cancels out all the conflict situations. The subjects'
collaboration in large-scale economic programs will itself result in
change of the situation. It means that if it is profitable for us to
cooperate with Karabakh, we will cooperate, if for Karabakh it is
more profitable to cooperate with Azerbaijan from economical
viewpoint, Karabakh can consider the possibility of collaboration
with Azerbaijan. Now I will try to formulate an idea - the subjects
belonging to various levels, having one level of partner relations.
It may become a long-range direction, if official leadership pays
attention to it. The Co-Chairs wish to assist us in the ideas'
propaganda and support the idea of a peaceful process.
- What do you expect of the Co-Chairs' forthcoming visit? Will the
visit yield any result in the Karabakh conflict settlement?
- I do not wish to believe the visit has some super tasks. I think in
the present situation it is a very symptomatic visit. For instance,
the OSCE Minsk group Co-Chairs visit the region twice-thrice a year.
The working group Co-Chairs' arriving testifies to the fact that
there appeared something new in the process within the frames of the
Dartmouth Conference. I wait for the public to more seriously treat
the new manifestations. To shape public opinion is the most important
issue. In this case we will get strong incentive to turn the Karabakh
conflict settlement process and move in a new direction. From this
point of view a meeting of the RA authorities with the working group
Co-Chairs will be very useful. If the process is considered to be
parallel to the one within the OSCE Minsk group frames, there is a
distinctive line in it - qualitatively new approaches. One may not
adopt them, however, I believe, it is worthy to familiarize oneself
with them. -0-
KARINE KARAPETYAN,
DE FACTO
March 23 2006
`VISIT OF DARTMOUTH CONFERENCE WORKING GROUP CO-CHAIRS TO REGION IS
QUITE SYMPTOMATIC', ARAM G. SARGSYAN BELIEVES
The Co-Chairs of the working group on Nagorno Karabakh within frames
of the Russian-American Dartmouth Conference for the regional
conflicts Harold Saunders and Vitaly Naumkin intend to visit
Azerbaijan, Armenia and NKR. March 27-28 they will visit Baku, March
29-30 - Yerevan, and then the Co-Chair will leave for Stepanakert. To
note, the forthcoming visit is the first in the history of the
Dartmouth process on Nagorno Karabakh that began in October 2001. A
member of the Armenian delegation, RA Democratic Party leader Aram G.
Sargsyan told about the goals and program of the Co-Chairs' visit.
- What is the principal goal of a visit of the Co-Chairs of the
working group on Nagorno Karabakh within the frames of the
Russian-American Dartmouth Conference?
- During 4-5 years the working group on Nagorno Karabakh within the
frames of the Russian-American Dartmouth Conference worked to secure
any agreement with the three parties - delegations of the Azeri,
Armenian and Nagorno Karabakh public. The talks' first rounds were
very complicated, as the sides mainly exchanged mutual claims. We
reached a consensus concerning the Framework Agreement's text only by
the eighth - ninth round of the negotiations. At first the text was
titled `Framework Agreement on the Peaceful Process in the Region of
Azerbaijan, Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh'. Later, in the course of
the ninth round, the Azeri party requested that an expression `in the
region of Azerbaijan, Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh' should be
withdrawn.
In my onion - actually, other participants of the dialogue on
Karabakh share this viewpoint as well - we have attained a very
important outcome. First, it is the only format of the talks with the
Karabakh party's participation. That is to say, for the first time
during the whole history of the Karabakh issue settlement the three
parties have reached a consensus on the fact that only peace process,
and yet full-scale, involving general public, can result in a stable
peace in the region. I am absolutely sure that the very approach is
correct and long-term, as the search for a political solution of the
Karabakh issue, in my deep conviction, is a deadlock. I am aware of
the fact that after everything done by the OSCE Minsk group, so many
meetings conducted between the Armenian and Azeri Presidents, it is
quite difficult to deny it even from the psychological point of view.
I believe the new ideas should be thoroughly transformed in a
peaceful process on the Karabakh conflict settlement. It is not only
my own viewpoint, those participating in the talks within the
Dartmouth Conference frames, who approved the draft Framework
Agreement, share my opinion as well. The Co-Chairs of the working
group on Karabakh Harold Saunders - the former U.S. Deputy State
Secretary, an experienced diplomat, and Vitaly Naumkin - President of
the Center for Strategic Studies, a famous politologist, as well as
their assistants Philip Stewart and Irina Zvyaginskaya, will arrive
in the region in the near future. The principal goal of the visit is
propaganda of the draft Framework Agreement on the peaceful process
and seconding efforts of representatives of the three countries'
public.
- What is the visit's program?
- It is a very short visit: 27-28 they will be in Baku, 29-30 - in
Yerevan, March 31 - April 1 the delegation will visit Stepanakert. We
plan to conduct `a round table' with the Armenian experts'
participation in Yerevan. Meetings with leaders of the RA political
parties have been scheduled. A meeting with the Armenian delegation
taking part in the talks within the Dartmouth Conference frames is to
be held. The official meetings are not ruled out; however, the issue
is being coordinated with RA Ministry of Foreign Affairs. A meeting
with Chair of the Permanent Parliamentary Commission for Foreign
Issues Armen Rustamyan has already been charted. Harold Saunders and
Vitaly Naumkin will also participate in a press conference. I would
like to note that it is the visit's preliminary program; it is quite
possible that modifications may be made in it.
-The Dartmouth process on Karabakh has been lasting for five years.
However, only now the working group Co-Chairs Harold Saunders and
Vitaly Naumkin found it necessary to visit the region. How can you
comment on the fact? In your opinion, is the forthcoming visit
connected with the failure of the Armenian and Azeri Presidents'
Rambouillet meeting?
- First of all, the visit is conditioned by the fact that, as I have
already mentioned, we have finally reached a consensus in the course
of the ninth round of the talks for such a long period of time.
However, undoubtedly, I link the visit with the Kocharyan-Aliyev
Presidents' meeting in Rambouillet. I should say that the OSCE Minsk
group is quite well informed of the steps being undertaken by our
working group. RF MFA and the U.S. State Department follow the
process very actively. Our working group on Karabakh is a sort of a
model group that elaborates possible levels of consent between the
nations. During a year we published the draft Framework Agreement in
press several times. I suggested (not directly, but via mass media)
that the Armenian authorities should consider the issue. However,
representatives of the leadership have not responded to my proposal.
Meanwhile, the Nagorno Karabakh authorities have treated the document
very positively.
- Has the Azeri leadership reacted upon the project?
- I have no information on the reaction to the draft Agreement in
Baku. However, everyone knows that Azeris sing just one song -
`Return our territory to us'. I consider the coming visit is not
occasional and connect it with the talks in Rambouillet. The
Rambouillet meeting is not just failure, it is fiasco. Each party
insists that the territory belongs to it. Unless there is retreat
from the positions, we will not manage to find a solution. And yet
the deviation is not likely to take place. Our proposal on a
full-scale peace process presumes a number of other decisions as
well. For instance, it supposes economic cooperation, which, in the
end, cancels out all the conflict situations. The subjects'
collaboration in large-scale economic programs will itself result in
change of the situation. It means that if it is profitable for us to
cooperate with Karabakh, we will cooperate, if for Karabakh it is
more profitable to cooperate with Azerbaijan from economical
viewpoint, Karabakh can consider the possibility of collaboration
with Azerbaijan. Now I will try to formulate an idea - the subjects
belonging to various levels, having one level of partner relations.
It may become a long-range direction, if official leadership pays
attention to it. The Co-Chairs wish to assist us in the ideas'
propaganda and support the idea of a peaceful process.
- What do you expect of the Co-Chairs' forthcoming visit? Will the
visit yield any result in the Karabakh conflict settlement?
- I do not wish to believe the visit has some super tasks. I think in
the present situation it is a very symptomatic visit. For instance,
the OSCE Minsk group Co-Chairs visit the region twice-thrice a year.
The working group Co-Chairs' arriving testifies to the fact that
there appeared something new in the process within the frames of the
Dartmouth Conference. I wait for the public to more seriously treat
the new manifestations. To shape public opinion is the most important
issue. In this case we will get strong incentive to turn the Karabakh
conflict settlement process and move in a new direction. From this
point of view a meeting of the RA authorities with the working group
Co-Chairs will be very useful. If the process is considered to be
parallel to the one within the OSCE Minsk group frames, there is a
distinctive line in it - qualitatively new approaches. One may not
adopt them, however, I believe, it is worthy to familiarize oneself
with them. -0-
KARINE KARAPETYAN,
DE FACTO