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GRAND MUFTI OF TURKEY SEES POPE'S UPCOMING VISIT AS 'STEP TOWARD DIALOGUE'
La Stampa, Itali
Nov 15 2006
[Interview With Grand Mufti Ali Bardakoglu by Claudio Gallo: "Grand
Mufti: 'Pope Runs No Risk, He Is Welcome Guest'" - first paragraph
is La Stampa introduction]
Istanbul - Apart from a handshake with the president of the republic,
he will be the first person the pope will see on his arrival in
Turkey on 28 November: the chairman of the Diyanet, Professor Ali
Bardakoglu. He is often referred to in Italy as the grand mufti,
but one has the impression that the title is rather an honorary one,
some sort of a label for the secular guide at the Ministry of Religious
Affairs. Professor, are you the grand mufti? To answer this question
he offers a book of his, Religion and Society, with the subtitle:
"Turkey's New Prospects," which he has just autographed, saying:
"Here you will find the answer, especially in the chapter on the
ministry chairmanship." We are beginning rather well.
The seat of the Diyanet - the word means clemency, compassion - is just
out of Ankara's centre, a square palace with wide, clear-cut spaces,
reminiscent of the architecture of the Twenties. The office is large,
with a big desk at the end, paintings, and carpets. He sits on a big
armchair, wearing the "sarik," the headgear of religious leaders,
and a pearl-coloured robe with floral motifs and maroon cuffs. Tall,
whiskered, the father of three sons, there he sits with crossed hands,
he does not gesticulate, only now and then he moves his brown eyes. On
his left there is the linen cloth that covered the Qa'aba, Mecca's
black stone, with the two names of God imprinted on it. He talks
without changing his tone; at times he smiles. A student of Islam,
he blends the religious with the secular component - as is inevitable
after Ataturk - with the skill of a Christian Democrat.
[Gallo] You were among the first to ask the pope to apologize for
his Regensburg speech. Will you ask him to do so again?
[Bardakoglu] I will not waste my time talking about the past. It does
not matter whether the person who says something unacceptable about
Islam is a layman, a priest, or an important person: our duty is to
correct him. But these things belong to the past, let us look ahead.
Religious leaders must respect the feelings of other believers. As an
Islamic community, we are open to criticism and discussion of religious
experience, but not of the fundamental principles of our faith: God,
the Prophet, and the Koran.
[Gallo] The pontiff's quotation of the Byzantine Emperor Manuel II
was only a small part of a broad discourse about God and reason. Is
the God of the Koran beyond reason?
[Bardakoglu] It was a very intellectual discourse and the quotation
made by the pope leads to a wrong academic interpretation. Besides,
many Western intellectuals, even Christian ones, have criticized those
words on the political and philosophical plane. The Islamic faith
does not rule out rationalism. In the Koran there are indications
that logic is not extraneous to God. We are open to a discussion on
the relationship between God and reason, it is a great pleasure for
us to talk these questions over with other religions.
[Gallo] People often oppose Islam and Christianity like East and
West. Christianity, however, took shape and developed in Asia Minor,
more or less in the area of today's Turkey: so people forget that it
too is an Eastern religion.
[Bardakoglu] The Middle East is the cradle of religions. We recognize
a continuity - from Adam, Moses, and Jesus, down to Muhammad. In
these lands one can at every step find traces of all faiths, which
lived peacefully one beside the other. In the Balkans too there are
Christian monuments, which were preserved under Ottoman rule. Unlike
Spain, where, with the exception of the Alhambra, the traces of the
Islamic presence have been erased. And while the Jews were being
massacred in Spain, they found hospitality and protection with us.
One of Istanbul's synagogues goes back to that time.
[Gallo] Are you concerned about the pope's security?
[Bardakoglu] Religious and political leaders of all countries come to
Turkey every day without problems. We are a democratic state, there
is freedom: precisely for this reason there are people who do not
want this visit and who say so. This, however, will not affect our
traditional hospitality. Tolerance and hospitality are two different
entities that can coexist. No, I am not concerned at all. This trip
will not solve all the problems, but will be a good step towards
dialogue. Peace can be destroyed in a moment, but it takes time,
it is a long process, to build it.
[Gallo] At times the word jihad is, in the Western media, synonymous
with terrorism: can you explain its true meaning?
[Bardakoglu] We condemn all kinds of terrorism, there is no cause
that can justify it. The word jihad, which is often exalted in the
Koran, cannot justify violence. The whole of the Islamic world must
be aware of that. Islam is the way to peace and love. In Islam, the
main meaning of jihad is that of interior struggle against the evil
inclinations of human nature. Our faith wants to conquer hearts by
the truth, not by force. God does not approve of forced conversions,
religions spring from the heart.
[Gallo] Do Turkish Muslims really want to join an apparently Christian
European Union?
[Bardakoglu] My role has nothing to do with the question of Turkey's
accession to the EU. I do not believe that Europe is a Christian
club. A common way must be found: if we start with religion, we will
be divided on everything else.
[Gallo] Will the Roman Catholic Church be legally recognized in
your country?
[Bardakoglu] All religions are recognized here. Turkey is a secular
country, the problem does not exist. The task of the state is to give
a space to religions and guarantee their freedom.
[Gallo] Still, while the Orthodox and Armenian Churches enjoy
juridical status, the Roman Catholic apostolic nuncio is like any
private person. For example, the Vatican cannot own a church.
[Bardakoglu] I do not know all the hierarchies and relationships
among the various confessions. In numerical terms, the Orthodox
Armenians come first, followed by the Orthodox Greeks and all the
rest. The Roman Catholics are a small minority. George Marovich
(spokesman for the Episcopal Conference - editor's note) is a very
popular person with us. And nobody can say that he is considered
a minor religious leader. We have met frequently over these years,
and also recently. We do not discriminate.
[Gallo] What do you say to Paris, which wants to adopt a law against
those who deny the Armenian genocide?
[Bardakoglu] It is up to the politicians to answer this question.
Anyhow, whether something is true or not cannot be laid down by law.
La Stampa, Itali
Nov 15 2006
[Interview With Grand Mufti Ali Bardakoglu by Claudio Gallo: "Grand
Mufti: 'Pope Runs No Risk, He Is Welcome Guest'" - first paragraph
is La Stampa introduction]
Istanbul - Apart from a handshake with the president of the republic,
he will be the first person the pope will see on his arrival in
Turkey on 28 November: the chairman of the Diyanet, Professor Ali
Bardakoglu. He is often referred to in Italy as the grand mufti,
but one has the impression that the title is rather an honorary one,
some sort of a label for the secular guide at the Ministry of Religious
Affairs. Professor, are you the grand mufti? To answer this question
he offers a book of his, Religion and Society, with the subtitle:
"Turkey's New Prospects," which he has just autographed, saying:
"Here you will find the answer, especially in the chapter on the
ministry chairmanship." We are beginning rather well.
The seat of the Diyanet - the word means clemency, compassion - is just
out of Ankara's centre, a square palace with wide, clear-cut spaces,
reminiscent of the architecture of the Twenties. The office is large,
with a big desk at the end, paintings, and carpets. He sits on a big
armchair, wearing the "sarik," the headgear of religious leaders,
and a pearl-coloured robe with floral motifs and maroon cuffs. Tall,
whiskered, the father of three sons, there he sits with crossed hands,
he does not gesticulate, only now and then he moves his brown eyes. On
his left there is the linen cloth that covered the Qa'aba, Mecca's
black stone, with the two names of God imprinted on it. He talks
without changing his tone; at times he smiles. A student of Islam,
he blends the religious with the secular component - as is inevitable
after Ataturk - with the skill of a Christian Democrat.
[Gallo] You were among the first to ask the pope to apologize for
his Regensburg speech. Will you ask him to do so again?
[Bardakoglu] I will not waste my time talking about the past. It does
not matter whether the person who says something unacceptable about
Islam is a layman, a priest, or an important person: our duty is to
correct him. But these things belong to the past, let us look ahead.
Religious leaders must respect the feelings of other believers. As an
Islamic community, we are open to criticism and discussion of religious
experience, but not of the fundamental principles of our faith: God,
the Prophet, and the Koran.
[Gallo] The pontiff's quotation of the Byzantine Emperor Manuel II
was only a small part of a broad discourse about God and reason. Is
the God of the Koran beyond reason?
[Bardakoglu] It was a very intellectual discourse and the quotation
made by the pope leads to a wrong academic interpretation. Besides,
many Western intellectuals, even Christian ones, have criticized those
words on the political and philosophical plane. The Islamic faith
does not rule out rationalism. In the Koran there are indications
that logic is not extraneous to God. We are open to a discussion on
the relationship between God and reason, it is a great pleasure for
us to talk these questions over with other religions.
[Gallo] People often oppose Islam and Christianity like East and
West. Christianity, however, took shape and developed in Asia Minor,
more or less in the area of today's Turkey: so people forget that it
too is an Eastern religion.
[Bardakoglu] The Middle East is the cradle of religions. We recognize
a continuity - from Adam, Moses, and Jesus, down to Muhammad. In
these lands one can at every step find traces of all faiths, which
lived peacefully one beside the other. In the Balkans too there are
Christian monuments, which were preserved under Ottoman rule. Unlike
Spain, where, with the exception of the Alhambra, the traces of the
Islamic presence have been erased. And while the Jews were being
massacred in Spain, they found hospitality and protection with us.
One of Istanbul's synagogues goes back to that time.
[Gallo] Are you concerned about the pope's security?
[Bardakoglu] Religious and political leaders of all countries come to
Turkey every day without problems. We are a democratic state, there
is freedom: precisely for this reason there are people who do not
want this visit and who say so. This, however, will not affect our
traditional hospitality. Tolerance and hospitality are two different
entities that can coexist. No, I am not concerned at all. This trip
will not solve all the problems, but will be a good step towards
dialogue. Peace can be destroyed in a moment, but it takes time,
it is a long process, to build it.
[Gallo] At times the word jihad is, in the Western media, synonymous
with terrorism: can you explain its true meaning?
[Bardakoglu] We condemn all kinds of terrorism, there is no cause
that can justify it. The word jihad, which is often exalted in the
Koran, cannot justify violence. The whole of the Islamic world must
be aware of that. Islam is the way to peace and love. In Islam, the
main meaning of jihad is that of interior struggle against the evil
inclinations of human nature. Our faith wants to conquer hearts by
the truth, not by force. God does not approve of forced conversions,
religions spring from the heart.
[Gallo] Do Turkish Muslims really want to join an apparently Christian
European Union?
[Bardakoglu] My role has nothing to do with the question of Turkey's
accession to the EU. I do not believe that Europe is a Christian
club. A common way must be found: if we start with religion, we will
be divided on everything else.
[Gallo] Will the Roman Catholic Church be legally recognized in
your country?
[Bardakoglu] All religions are recognized here. Turkey is a secular
country, the problem does not exist. The task of the state is to give
a space to religions and guarantee their freedom.
[Gallo] Still, while the Orthodox and Armenian Churches enjoy
juridical status, the Roman Catholic apostolic nuncio is like any
private person. For example, the Vatican cannot own a church.
[Bardakoglu] I do not know all the hierarchies and relationships
among the various confessions. In numerical terms, the Orthodox
Armenians come first, followed by the Orthodox Greeks and all the
rest. The Roman Catholics are a small minority. George Marovich
(spokesman for the Episcopal Conference - editor's note) is a very
popular person with us. And nobody can say that he is considered
a minor religious leader. We have met frequently over these years,
and also recently. We do not discriminate.
[Gallo] What do you say to Paris, which wants to adopt a law against
those who deny the Armenian genocide?
[Bardakoglu] It is up to the politicians to answer this question.
Anyhow, whether something is true or not cannot be laid down by law.