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ANYONE WHO TRIES TO TEACH US A LESSON WILL BE TAUGHT A LESSON THEMSELVES
by Olga Allenova
Translated by A. Ignatkin
Source: Kommersant, October 23, 2006, p. 10
Agency WPS
What the Papers Say Part B (Russia)
October 24, 2006 Tuesday
An interview with Georgian Foreign Minister Gela Bezhuashvili;
Gela Bezhuashvili: "Russia keeps viewing NATO the same way it did
in the 1950s. But NATO doesn't pose a threat to Russia. Russia has
sufficient resources - political, military, and other resources -
to defend itself."
Question: What awaits the people deported from Russia once they're
back in Georgia?
Gela Bezhuashvili: Let's begin with why and how they are being
deported. People are detained on the basis of their ethnic origin.
They are kept in detention cells for weeks and extradited like
criminals. This xenophobic policy has already resulted in the first
victims. In fact, this tendency poses a danger to Russia itself and
to Europe. It is the Georgians who are victims these days, just like
Jews were half a century ago. Importantly, individual states and the
European Union have already condemned the measures Russia is taking
against Georgia as unacceptable.
As for our citizens, we've been urging them to come home since the
Rose Revolution. Sure, we have economic problems in Georgia, but who
doesn't have them? Yes, there were illegal immigrants in Russia but
the majority were legal ones.
Question: Some oppositionists claim that deportation of immigrants
may result in social upheavals in Georgia.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Well, these people can earn in Georgia whatever
they earned in Russia. Forget social upheavals in Georgia, there
won't be any. Russia is trying to make our life hard. We know it.
Well, we'll cope with it.
Question: But food prices have already gone up in Georgia. They too
may lead to social disturbances.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Russia is not our only neighbor. There are other
countries. We enjoy a free trade regimen with Armenia, Azerbaijan,
Kazakhstan, Ukraine... and Turkey, soon. We expect to have a free
trade regimen with Turkey within a few months. When Russia stopped
importing our wines, Turkey raised its wine import quota. Turkey
doesn't consume much wine, but there are many Russian tourists there.
Anyone who tries to teach us a lesson will be taught a lesson
themselves.
All this is being done to punish Georgia for what is described as an
anti-Russian policy. But what is an anti-Russian policy? Pro-European
doesn't mean anti-Russian, does it?
Question: It's a pro-NATO policy rather than pro-European...
Gela Bezhuashvili: Let's look at NATO then. Two years of individual
partnership with NATO gave us a lot in terms of military reforms,
political reforms, social, and so on. Why would our membership of
NATO worry Russia so much if Russia's own level of partnership with
NATO is much higher than ours?
Question: But the matter concerns actual membership of NATO.
Gela Bezhuashvili: I cannot even give you the date [when Georgia is
to be invited to join NATO because it is NATO that makes decisions of
this kind. Georgia still has a great deal to do. What counts, however,
is that the government enjoys society's support in the matter. Our
partnership with NATO is not a problem for Russia.
Question: The Cold War between Russia and Georgia is under way because
Russia is leaving the region and understands that NATO will settle in.
Gela Bezhuashvili: That's what your politicians think. Russia keeps
viewing NATO the same way it did in the 1950s. But NATO doesn't pose
a threat to Russia. Russia has sufficient resources - political,
military, and other resources - to defend itself.
Question: Russia is doing all it can to prevent Georgia from joining
NATO. It may even go as far as to recognize the sovereignty of Abkhazia
and South Ossetia. Are you prepared for that?
Gela Bezhuashvili: For Russia's recognition of Abkhazian and South
Ossetian sovereignty? But what does Russia stand to gain?
Question: Most Georgians would be angry at President Mikhail
Saakashvili, who will have failed to retain territorial integrity.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Attempts to make life difficult for Saakashvili
might backfire, you know. I don't really expect Russia to go that far.
Question: But President Putin already said that there would be
nothing to prevent Moscow from recognizing the sovereignty of Abkhazia
and South Ossetia when sovereignty of Kosovo was recognized by the
international community.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Actually, he said it differently. It was only a
hint of what might be, a hint that it might provide a precedent...
First, Russia recognizes territorial integrity of Georgia. Second,
let us consider the resolution of the UN Security Council concerning
extension of peacekeepers' mandate, the document that Moscow hails
as it diplomatic triumph. It states that "the UN Security Council
recognizes territorial integrity of Georgia within the internationally
recognized borders." Russia is a permanent member of the UN Security
Council. How can it recognize some other borders?
Besides, Russia itself is a federation. Yes, there was a referendum
in Chechnya but nobody can say with any degree of accuracy what the
state of affairs will be there like several years from now.
Precedents like that are dangerous, you know.
Question: Tension in Russian-Georgian relations mounted when several
Russian officers were arrested in Tbilisi. Was it possible to avoid
this scandal?
Gela Bezhuashvili: They were not the first Russian servicemen arrested
for subversive activities. Sergei Lavrov and I discussed the spy named
Boiko last October. One year later, history repeated itself. Georgia
and Russia have an agreement not to spy on each other. There have
been incidents when people were turned over to the other country
quietly. They surfaced in South Ossetia afterwards.
This time, we decided that enough was enough.
There were no problems at all from the point of view of the law. We
could have issued charges and tried these people. The OSCE chairman
intervened, however, and asked us to turn them over to Russia. We
did. Russia knew that we would, it could have kept this quiet -
but it wouldn't.
This so-called spy scandal is the tip of the iceberg. What is
happening is not a result of this scandal. Russia's reaction to it
was so inappropriate that it made it obvious that these measures of
putting Georgia under pressure had been designed long ago. Russia
only needed a pretext.
by Olga Allenova
Translated by A. Ignatkin
Source: Kommersant, October 23, 2006, p. 10
Agency WPS
What the Papers Say Part B (Russia)
October 24, 2006 Tuesday
An interview with Georgian Foreign Minister Gela Bezhuashvili;
Gela Bezhuashvili: "Russia keeps viewing NATO the same way it did
in the 1950s. But NATO doesn't pose a threat to Russia. Russia has
sufficient resources - political, military, and other resources -
to defend itself."
Question: What awaits the people deported from Russia once they're
back in Georgia?
Gela Bezhuashvili: Let's begin with why and how they are being
deported. People are detained on the basis of their ethnic origin.
They are kept in detention cells for weeks and extradited like
criminals. This xenophobic policy has already resulted in the first
victims. In fact, this tendency poses a danger to Russia itself and
to Europe. It is the Georgians who are victims these days, just like
Jews were half a century ago. Importantly, individual states and the
European Union have already condemned the measures Russia is taking
against Georgia as unacceptable.
As for our citizens, we've been urging them to come home since the
Rose Revolution. Sure, we have economic problems in Georgia, but who
doesn't have them? Yes, there were illegal immigrants in Russia but
the majority were legal ones.
Question: Some oppositionists claim that deportation of immigrants
may result in social upheavals in Georgia.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Well, these people can earn in Georgia whatever
they earned in Russia. Forget social upheavals in Georgia, there
won't be any. Russia is trying to make our life hard. We know it.
Well, we'll cope with it.
Question: But food prices have already gone up in Georgia. They too
may lead to social disturbances.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Russia is not our only neighbor. There are other
countries. We enjoy a free trade regimen with Armenia, Azerbaijan,
Kazakhstan, Ukraine... and Turkey, soon. We expect to have a free
trade regimen with Turkey within a few months. When Russia stopped
importing our wines, Turkey raised its wine import quota. Turkey
doesn't consume much wine, but there are many Russian tourists there.
Anyone who tries to teach us a lesson will be taught a lesson
themselves.
All this is being done to punish Georgia for what is described as an
anti-Russian policy. But what is an anti-Russian policy? Pro-European
doesn't mean anti-Russian, does it?
Question: It's a pro-NATO policy rather than pro-European...
Gela Bezhuashvili: Let's look at NATO then. Two years of individual
partnership with NATO gave us a lot in terms of military reforms,
political reforms, social, and so on. Why would our membership of
NATO worry Russia so much if Russia's own level of partnership with
NATO is much higher than ours?
Question: But the matter concerns actual membership of NATO.
Gela Bezhuashvili: I cannot even give you the date [when Georgia is
to be invited to join NATO because it is NATO that makes decisions of
this kind. Georgia still has a great deal to do. What counts, however,
is that the government enjoys society's support in the matter. Our
partnership with NATO is not a problem for Russia.
Question: The Cold War between Russia and Georgia is under way because
Russia is leaving the region and understands that NATO will settle in.
Gela Bezhuashvili: That's what your politicians think. Russia keeps
viewing NATO the same way it did in the 1950s. But NATO doesn't pose
a threat to Russia. Russia has sufficient resources - political,
military, and other resources - to defend itself.
Question: Russia is doing all it can to prevent Georgia from joining
NATO. It may even go as far as to recognize the sovereignty of Abkhazia
and South Ossetia. Are you prepared for that?
Gela Bezhuashvili: For Russia's recognition of Abkhazian and South
Ossetian sovereignty? But what does Russia stand to gain?
Question: Most Georgians would be angry at President Mikhail
Saakashvili, who will have failed to retain territorial integrity.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Attempts to make life difficult for Saakashvili
might backfire, you know. I don't really expect Russia to go that far.
Question: But President Putin already said that there would be
nothing to prevent Moscow from recognizing the sovereignty of Abkhazia
and South Ossetia when sovereignty of Kosovo was recognized by the
international community.
Gela Bezhuashvili: Actually, he said it differently. It was only a
hint of what might be, a hint that it might provide a precedent...
First, Russia recognizes territorial integrity of Georgia. Second,
let us consider the resolution of the UN Security Council concerning
extension of peacekeepers' mandate, the document that Moscow hails
as it diplomatic triumph. It states that "the UN Security Council
recognizes territorial integrity of Georgia within the internationally
recognized borders." Russia is a permanent member of the UN Security
Council. How can it recognize some other borders?
Besides, Russia itself is a federation. Yes, there was a referendum
in Chechnya but nobody can say with any degree of accuracy what the
state of affairs will be there like several years from now.
Precedents like that are dangerous, you know.
Question: Tension in Russian-Georgian relations mounted when several
Russian officers were arrested in Tbilisi. Was it possible to avoid
this scandal?
Gela Bezhuashvili: They were not the first Russian servicemen arrested
for subversive activities. Sergei Lavrov and I discussed the spy named
Boiko last October. One year later, history repeated itself. Georgia
and Russia have an agreement not to spy on each other. There have
been incidents when people were turned over to the other country
quietly. They surfaced in South Ossetia afterwards.
This time, we decided that enough was enough.
There were no problems at all from the point of view of the law. We
could have issued charges and tried these people. The OSCE chairman
intervened, however, and asked us to turn them over to Russia. We
did. Russia knew that we would, it could have kept this quiet -
but it wouldn't.
This so-called spy scandal is the tip of the iceberg. What is
happening is not a result of this scandal. Russia's reaction to it
was so inappropriate that it made it obvious that these measures of
putting Georgia under pressure had been designed long ago. Russia
only needed a pretext.