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AL-JAZEERA TALK SHOW DICUSSES ISRAELI THREAT, USE OF TERM "HOLOCAUST"
AlJazeera
Feb 29 2008
Qatar
["Behind the News" political talk show, presented by Ali al-Zufayri,
in the Doha studio - live]
Doha Al-Jazeera Satellite Channel Television in Arabic at 1832 gmt
on 29 February carries a new, live 25-minuteepisode of its "Behind
the News" political talk show, presented by Ali al-Zufayri in the
Doha studio.
This episode discusses the statement made by the Israeli deputy defence
minister in which he warned of a holocaustagainst the Palestinians
if they continue to fire rockets on Israel. The anchorman raises the
following questions:"What did the Israeli official mean by threatening
to unleash upon the citizens of Gaza a holocaust similar towhich the
Jews were subjected by the Nazis? How does the Hebrew state describe
its killing of Palestinian civilians and children?"
Al-Zufayri says that the statement of the Israeli deputy defence
minister, in which he warned of unleashing aholocaust against the
Gaza citizens, is "an expression viewed by many non-Israelis as an
acknowledgment that wasmade without thinking of what the Hebrew state
is exercising against Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip,"noting
that several Israeli officials corrected the word by using the term
'humanitarian catastrophe.'
The programme carries a three-minute video report by Al-Jazeera
correspondent Iman Ramadan in which scenes are shown of the aftermath
of Israeli air raids on inhabited areas in Gaza where a number
of civilians were killed or wounded. Shesays: "This holocaust was
preceded by scores of others in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in which
thousands wereannihilated in massive killings, but the new aspect
about it this time is the use of the term 'holocaust' for the first
time in threatening statements by an Israeli official."
Guests on the programme are Professor Adi Ofer, professor of
philosophy at Tel Aviv University, via satellite fromTel Aviv,
speaking in English with superimposed translation into Arabic; and
Dr Azmi Bishara, Arab writer andintellectual, via satellite from Amman.
Asked whether the statement made by the high-ranking Israeli official
was a slip of the tongue, Ofer expresses beliefthat the Hebrew term
used by the deputy defence minister was not meant to be holocaust;
rather, "it might havemeant a big catastrophe. If this term was
interpreted as holocaust, as you have described it, this would
contradict the essential principles of the Israeli ideology and
Israel's policy in Gaza at present." He adds that theholocaust that the
Jews suffered is one of a kind and that "there will never be anything
similar to it." Heexplains that Israel's policy in Gaza is to push
matters to the edge of a humanitarian catastrophe "withoutcrossing
over this edge." He says that what the deputy minister might have
meant was that pressures on thePalestinians will be increased by
cutting off electric power and other similar measures.
Asked whether the deputy defence minister was thinking of a 'holocaust'
rather than a humanitariancatastrophe, Bishara says that he probably
meant a humanitarian catastrophe, noting that "the deputy minister
isnot well-educated and lacks intelligence." He adds that the Jews
normally avoid using the term'holocaust' to describe the suffering of
other peoples, because they want to maintain the uniqueness of their
suffering as they consider themselves the only people to have been
subjected to such a massive catastrophe, notconsidering the events
that befell the Native Americans or the Armenians, for instance,
to be holocausts. He says:"They always try to monopolize the use of
this word because of the uniqueness of the event on which they base
theirgreat ideologies, which are linked to the uniqueness of their fate
and path." Bishara notes that "thePalestinians' attempt to liken their
suffering to the suffering of the Jews, or to use this term to describe
their suffering, means that the suffering of world Jewry is the term
of reference, and that all other suffering isinsignificant unless it
derives its legitimacy from that of the catastrophe that befell the
European Jews." Herefers to the stupidity of the Iranian president when
he denied the Holocaust and absolved Europe of causing it,emphasizing
that Europe should be held responsible for the Holocaust; likewise,
no one should remain silent about itsaccusations against Arabs and
Muslims. He says that "what is occurring in Gaza now, in my opinion
and regardless ofwhat anyone might say, is the imprisonment of an
entire people, which is more serious than the concentration camps
that were erected in Europe."
Al-Zufayri notes that the Guardian newspaper interpreted the term
used by the Israeli deputy defence minister as'holocaust,' and he
asks Ofer whether, in light of the observations made by Dr Bishara,
Israel is trying toabsolve the deputy minister of using the term
'holocaust.' Ofer admits that the Palestinians in Gaza areheading
towards a humanitarian catastrophe as a result of the Israeli policy,
noting that "this is all bad and weshould understand the logic behind
this push towards a catastrophe."
Asked whether the Gaza events are isolated Israeli actions or are
taking place within a wider cycle, Bisharaemphasizes that "these events
are taking place within a wider cycle that aims to coerce the will of a
people whoare living under occupation and to force them to accept the
Israeli conditions." He says that "what is taking place in Gaza now,
using the US and Israeli language, is terrorism because of the use
of all forms of violence,including the prevention of free movement,
shelling, and the banning of food and medicine. This violence is
targetingcivilians in order to force them to change their attitude
and behaviour so that they will pressure theirleadership."
He explains that the citizens of Gaza are not living in cities;
rather they are in camps in which theytook refuge when they were
expelled from their original places of residence, emphasizing that
"it is thus acontinuing crime in pursuit of Palestinian victims, even
in the places where they took refuge." He describesIsrael's behaviour
as 'sociocide,' as Israel is trying to exterminate and fragment a
society byseparating the West Bank from Gaza, refugees from citizens,
and Palestinians in the diaspora from the rest of thePalestinians.
Asked to interpret politically what the Israeli Government is currently
carrying out in Gaza, Ofer says: "In theeyes of Israeli officials
and the majority of the media, what is taking place is simply an
act of self-defence, whichled the peace negotiations to a dead end,
particularly since the current policy is to use more force.
I believe thatyour description is better than Israel's official
description, since the policy being applied in Gaza is part of a
general policy by which Israel is trying to fragment the Palestinian
territory and society into small portions anddestroy any possibility
of establishing a strong Palestinian national entity that can either
live side by side withIsrael or merge with Israel into one state.
These two options pose a threat to the majority of Israelis." He
addsthat Israel has no clear policy towards Gaza and it does not know
how to tackle this problem.
Al-Zufayri notes that there are two Palestinian options: Negotiations
or resistance, and he asks Bishara whether bycarrying out this
campaign against Gaza, Israel strengthens the negotiations option
or pushes the Palestinian people to adhere more to the resistance
option. Bishara says that "by proceeding along this path, Israel
attempts to support only one option, which is a submissive settlement;
that is, the acceptance of what Israel wants." He adds that"the Israeli
Government rejected both the comprehensive settlement with the Arabs,
which is based on the Arab peaceinitiative, and the pattern of one
state where people coexist together, and opted for a third course,"
noting that "all of us in this region know well that such a course led
to continuous wars that lasted 180 years and ended inthe disappearance
of that entity." He adds that Israel's current course of action is
in essence a waroption.
AlJazeera
Feb 29 2008
Qatar
["Behind the News" political talk show, presented by Ali al-Zufayri,
in the Doha studio - live]
Doha Al-Jazeera Satellite Channel Television in Arabic at 1832 gmt
on 29 February carries a new, live 25-minuteepisode of its "Behind
the News" political talk show, presented by Ali al-Zufayri in the
Doha studio.
This episode discusses the statement made by the Israeli deputy defence
minister in which he warned of a holocaustagainst the Palestinians
if they continue to fire rockets on Israel. The anchorman raises the
following questions:"What did the Israeli official mean by threatening
to unleash upon the citizens of Gaza a holocaust similar towhich the
Jews were subjected by the Nazis? How does the Hebrew state describe
its killing of Palestinian civilians and children?"
Al-Zufayri says that the statement of the Israeli deputy defence
minister, in which he warned of unleashing aholocaust against the
Gaza citizens, is "an expression viewed by many non-Israelis as an
acknowledgment that wasmade without thinking of what the Hebrew state
is exercising against Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip,"noting
that several Israeli officials corrected the word by using the term
'humanitarian catastrophe.'
The programme carries a three-minute video report by Al-Jazeera
correspondent Iman Ramadan in which scenes are shown of the aftermath
of Israeli air raids on inhabited areas in Gaza where a number
of civilians were killed or wounded. Shesays: "This holocaust was
preceded by scores of others in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in which
thousands wereannihilated in massive killings, but the new aspect
about it this time is the use of the term 'holocaust' for the first
time in threatening statements by an Israeli official."
Guests on the programme are Professor Adi Ofer, professor of
philosophy at Tel Aviv University, via satellite fromTel Aviv,
speaking in English with superimposed translation into Arabic; and
Dr Azmi Bishara, Arab writer andintellectual, via satellite from Amman.
Asked whether the statement made by the high-ranking Israeli official
was a slip of the tongue, Ofer expresses beliefthat the Hebrew term
used by the deputy defence minister was not meant to be holocaust;
rather, "it might havemeant a big catastrophe. If this term was
interpreted as holocaust, as you have described it, this would
contradict the essential principles of the Israeli ideology and
Israel's policy in Gaza at present." He adds that theholocaust that the
Jews suffered is one of a kind and that "there will never be anything
similar to it." Heexplains that Israel's policy in Gaza is to push
matters to the edge of a humanitarian catastrophe "withoutcrossing
over this edge." He says that what the deputy minister might have
meant was that pressures on thePalestinians will be increased by
cutting off electric power and other similar measures.
Asked whether the deputy defence minister was thinking of a 'holocaust'
rather than a humanitariancatastrophe, Bishara says that he probably
meant a humanitarian catastrophe, noting that "the deputy minister
isnot well-educated and lacks intelligence." He adds that the Jews
normally avoid using the term'holocaust' to describe the suffering of
other peoples, because they want to maintain the uniqueness of their
suffering as they consider themselves the only people to have been
subjected to such a massive catastrophe, notconsidering the events
that befell the Native Americans or the Armenians, for instance,
to be holocausts. He says:"They always try to monopolize the use of
this word because of the uniqueness of the event on which they base
theirgreat ideologies, which are linked to the uniqueness of their fate
and path." Bishara notes that "thePalestinians' attempt to liken their
suffering to the suffering of the Jews, or to use this term to describe
their suffering, means that the suffering of world Jewry is the term
of reference, and that all other suffering isinsignificant unless it
derives its legitimacy from that of the catastrophe that befell the
European Jews." Herefers to the stupidity of the Iranian president when
he denied the Holocaust and absolved Europe of causing it,emphasizing
that Europe should be held responsible for the Holocaust; likewise,
no one should remain silent about itsaccusations against Arabs and
Muslims. He says that "what is occurring in Gaza now, in my opinion
and regardless ofwhat anyone might say, is the imprisonment of an
entire people, which is more serious than the concentration camps
that were erected in Europe."
Al-Zufayri notes that the Guardian newspaper interpreted the term
used by the Israeli deputy defence minister as'holocaust,' and he
asks Ofer whether, in light of the observations made by Dr Bishara,
Israel is trying toabsolve the deputy minister of using the term
'holocaust.' Ofer admits that the Palestinians in Gaza areheading
towards a humanitarian catastrophe as a result of the Israeli policy,
noting that "this is all bad and weshould understand the logic behind
this push towards a catastrophe."
Asked whether the Gaza events are isolated Israeli actions or are
taking place within a wider cycle, Bisharaemphasizes that "these events
are taking place within a wider cycle that aims to coerce the will of a
people whoare living under occupation and to force them to accept the
Israeli conditions." He says that "what is taking place in Gaza now,
using the US and Israeli language, is terrorism because of the use
of all forms of violence,including the prevention of free movement,
shelling, and the banning of food and medicine. This violence is
targetingcivilians in order to force them to change their attitude
and behaviour so that they will pressure theirleadership."
He explains that the citizens of Gaza are not living in cities;
rather they are in camps in which theytook refuge when they were
expelled from their original places of residence, emphasizing that
"it is thus acontinuing crime in pursuit of Palestinian victims, even
in the places where they took refuge." He describesIsrael's behaviour
as 'sociocide,' as Israel is trying to exterminate and fragment a
society byseparating the West Bank from Gaza, refugees from citizens,
and Palestinians in the diaspora from the rest of thePalestinians.
Asked to interpret politically what the Israeli Government is currently
carrying out in Gaza, Ofer says: "In theeyes of Israeli officials
and the majority of the media, what is taking place is simply an
act of self-defence, whichled the peace negotiations to a dead end,
particularly since the current policy is to use more force.
I believe thatyour description is better than Israel's official
description, since the policy being applied in Gaza is part of a
general policy by which Israel is trying to fragment the Palestinian
territory and society into small portions anddestroy any possibility
of establishing a strong Palestinian national entity that can either
live side by side withIsrael or merge with Israel into one state.
These two options pose a threat to the majority of Israelis." He
addsthat Israel has no clear policy towards Gaza and it does not know
how to tackle this problem.
Al-Zufayri notes that there are two Palestinian options: Negotiations
or resistance, and he asks Bishara whether bycarrying out this
campaign against Gaza, Israel strengthens the negotiations option
or pushes the Palestinian people to adhere more to the resistance
option. Bishara says that "by proceeding along this path, Israel
attempts to support only one option, which is a submissive settlement;
that is, the acceptance of what Israel wants." He adds that"the Israeli
Government rejected both the comprehensive settlement with the Arabs,
which is based on the Arab peaceinitiative, and the pattern of one
state where people coexist together, and opted for a third course,"
noting that "all of us in this region know well that such a course led
to continuous wars that lasted 180 years and ended inthe disappearance
of that entity." He adds that Israel's current course of action is
in essence a waroption.