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  • The Armenian Weekly; March 22, 2008; Features

    The Armenian Weekly On-Line
    80 Bigelow Avenue
    Watertown MA 02472 USA
    (617) 926-3974
    [email protected]

    http://www.a rmenianweekly.com

    The Armenian Weekly; Volume 74, No. 11; March 22, 2008

    Features:

    1. The Politics of official apologies
    An Interview with Melissa Nobles
    By Khatchig Mouradian

    2. Mephisto's Coffee-Table Book
    'Never Again, Again, Again.' Scrapbooks Humanity's Genocidal Descent
    By Andy Turpin

    ***

    1. The Politics of official apologies
    An Interview with Melissa Nobles
    By Khatchig Mouradian

    Melissa Nobles is associate professor of political science at MIT. She holds
    a BA in history from Brown University and an MA and PhD in political science
    >From Yale University.

    Her research interests include retrospective justice and the comparative
    study of racial and ethnic politics. She is the author of Shades of
    Citizenship: Race and the Census in Modern Politics (Stanford University
    Press, 2000) and The Politics of Official Apologies (Cambridge University
    Press, 2008).

    In this interview, conducted in her office at MIT on March 11, we discuss
    why and how governments apologize-or do not apologize-for crimes committed
    in their country in the past and what significance apology-or the absence of
    it-can have on the descendents of the victims and the perpetrators.

    Khatchig Mouradian-How did you become interested in the politics of official
    apologies?

    Melissa Nobles-I became interested when, in 1998, I read an article in the
    New York Times about the Canadian government's apology to indigenous
    Canadians. I thought that was interesting and unusual, because governments
    don't usually apologize. Then I became aware of the Turkish government's
    refusal to apologize for the Armenian genocide. That also interested me. I
    knew that the U.S. government had apologized to Japanese-Americans for their
    internment during WWII, but also realized that the U.S. had not apologized
    to Native Americans or to African-Americans for their experiences. So my
    interest was both in cases where governments did apologize and where
    governments did not apologize.

    K.M.-In the book, you make a distinction between apology offered by
    governments and ones offered by heads of state. Why is this distinction
    important?

    M.N.-It is important because government apologies typically require more
    actors and tend to be the result of more deliberation. The parliament,
    commissions and historians are involved, so more people are weighing in and
    it's more of a collective decision. Moreover, typically government apologies
    have been accompanied by reparations. Examples of such apologies and
    reparations are the German government's apology and ongoing reparations to
    surviving Jews after WWII and the state of Israel, and U.S. President Ronald
    Reagan providing $20,000 to surviving Japanese-Americans affected by the
    internment.

    Apologies that come from heads of state are important, of course, because
    the person giving them is either the executive or government official, but
    they are not necessarily the result of deliberation, so they are more
    unpredictable and don't usually come with any kind of compensation. They
    tend to be more fleeting. I thought that's the distinction that should be
    taken into account.

    K.M.-Speaking of reparations, in the book you write, "For vulnerable and
    disadvantaged groups, moral appeals are often central to political argument
    and action. . But at the same time, group members also express skepticism
    about the ultimate worth of moral appeals because although they may be
    essential, they are infrequently followed by action." Do you feel that
    action is necessary for apologies to have meaning?

    M.N.-I do. Note that action can be broadly or narrowly defined. We might
    think about action as an apology that marks the beginnings of a government
    and citizenry talking more seriously about their own history. Action can be
    something not regulated by the state or there may be a commission that
    recommends compensation. But what is the least desirable is an apology that
    is just said and is followed by nothing-no discussion, or any kind of
    deliberation or compensation-because then, it falls flat. Action need not be
    synonymous with reparations as such, but it needs to be something more than
    a mere utterance, which, once said, dies.

    K.M.-Have there been cases where an official apology has not been followed
    by any concrete steps-a sort of "I apologize, now let's go home"? You
    mention in the book how some governments have refrained from apologizing
    mainly because of what might come next.

    M.N.-In general, the "let's go home" apologies have been given by heads of
    state. I haven't found too many cases of governments giving apologies that
    haven't been followed by something. An example would be what's going on now
    in Australia, where there's resistance at least to doing something that
    would be directly tied to the apology. At the same time they're saying, We
    are going to change Aboriginal policy-making, we're going to take action,
    but we're not going to give money to the specific victims of this particular
    government policy [of forcibly removing Aboriginal children from their
    parent's care].

    Governments are reluctant to apologize precisely because of the concern that
    there are going to be demands for money. But governments have more power;
    they decide what they're going to do. So while there is a tension, I don't
    think it's a tension that's insurmountable. The issue is framed by political
    elites. They can decide to give nothing and they often times make this
    decision.

    K.M.-Isn't there also some dominance relation here? After all, it's the
    dominant group that is deciding what to say and what to give.

    M.N.-Absolutely. This is certainly an unequal dynamic. Much of the
    dissatisfaction with symbolic politics is that it points up the relative
    powerlessness of the groups that are asking for apologies.

    If you're in power and feel that you don't need anything from the groups
    that have victimized you, you would not ask for apologies. It is the less
    powerful that do. The less powerful groups have fewer resources and rely
    upon moral appeals in order to get what they want. And there's value, of
    course, in bringing morality to bear. That's just the dynamic of the world
    in which we live.

    But you're absolutely right, there is asymmetry here. The powerful can do as
    little as they want and, many times, they do nothing. They ignore them. They
    won't apologize. On the other hand, the group can continue to express their
    dissatisfaction, and continue to demand it. The demand-just the idea that
    they're being asked for it-can be discomforting to the powerful. That may be
    all that the side demanding apology can do.

    K.M.-I want to bring democracy into the discussion. It would be easy to
    argue that democracy should help countries face their past, but there are
    some very striking examples that show that this is not the case. For
    example, the United States has not apologized for slavery or the genocide of
    the Native Americans. What are your thoughts on this?

    M.N.-Democracy is the rule of the majority and there are inherent
    disadvantages for minority groups within democracies. (Native Americans, in
    this example, are less than one percent of the American population; black
    Americans are 12 percent). And even though democracies allow for an
    expression of desires and preferences, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're
    going to get what you want. It typically means that minority groups have to
    get the majority on board. That's why moral appeal is sometimes what's
    needed.

    The majority decides whether it will pay any attention to the minority. They
    can choose to ignore the minority, and, as I've said, they oftentimes do. So
    what minorities have to do is try to find a way to make the majority listen.
    And usually appeals to history, appeals to the conscience are the peaceful
    ways that are used. There are violent ways, of course, but those haven't
    been the avenues chosen by Native Americans or African-Americans for obvious
    reasons.

    The hope is that public discourse within democracies will force a
    discussion. There's a need for a robust debate in the public arena, which
    makes freedom of speech, freedom of universities and other freedoms that
    democracy provides so important. Without those freedoms, change definitely
    wouldn't happen.

    K.M.-In the context of democracy and the minorities within that democracy,
    do you feel that as long as there has been no apology, the power asymmetry
    and the domination are still there?

    M.N.-Yes, it's kind of unavoidable. Look at the situation of the Native
    Americans. It's disgraceful and makes one despair a great deal. It's our
    country's history. We don't want to talk about it, or we barely talk about
    it. Even when we do talk, we certainly talk about it incompletely. And more
    than that, I think many Americans thing that the dispossession of the Native
    Americans was justified in some way. They think, we certainly are not going
    to give anything back, we love the U.S. now and the Native American
    circumstance is just the unfortunate result of history. I think that some
    dimension of domination will always be there and seems to be unavoidable. It
    is also, of course, not a thing that anyone who has a conscience would
    celebrate. It should cause us discomfort at the very least and I think there
    is no real discussion in the U.S. about Native Americans because of that
    discomfort and the implications of taking their situation seriously.

    K.M.-You have written, "Feelings of 'nonresponsibility' are powerful
    constraints against state support for apologies. Feelings of national pride,
    derived from certain interpretations of national history, also play a role."
    What is shocking is that in each and every case that I know of and that you
    mention in the book, the victimizers or their descendents-the dominant
    group-deal the exact same way with the victim group and its demands. This
    issue seems to cut across civilizations.

    M.N.-It is shocking. There are lots of justifications for not feeling
    responsible. The most obvious is the argument that "I was not personally
    responsible." But, of course, that's a pretty easy one to challenge. People
    aren't responsible for what goes well in their countries, but they claim it,
    right? So it's kind of selective claiming: "I like the constitution but I
    hate slavery." Being part of a country requires the good and bad, but it is
    human nature to want to bask in the glory and then ignore the bad. Once I
    decide that I'm not responsible for the act, why would I apologize for it?

    Once this particular position takes hold, everything else follows and makes
    apology impossible. So the point is to always try to deal with that issue of
    responsibility by telling the person, "You are not individually responsible,
    we get that, but somehow you are a beneficiary of, or you benefited from,
    the historical circumstances in which you were born in such a way that you
    must now think about making amends."

    The challenge is to try and get people to see that they are somehow
    responsible. Not that they themselves are responsible, but that somehow they
    should accept responsibility, even if they were not personally involved.

    One thing the research has shown is that feelings of guilt are determined by
    whether you think you are personally responsible or not. If you recognize
    that your group, the group with which you are associated, was responsible
    and you feel guilt about it, then you're likely to apologize.

    K.M.-How can the descendants of the victimizers argue for an apology?

    M.N.-Politicians make it such that the descendents are able to say, "OK,
    this happened in the past, apologizing is the right thing to do." It helps
    to talk about the past but think about the future. So they use the term
    acknowledgement without necessarily assigning guilt. That's what Australia's
    Prime Minister did. He apologized to Aboriginal Australians
    straightforwardly. He basically said, "We acknowledge what happened and we
    are sorry." But then he said, "Now we're moving forward. The reason we are
    apologizing is to make a better community for Australian Aboriginal
    peoples." So one approach that politicians use is not to dwell upon the
    past; even as they acknowledge the past, they quickly move from it. That
    seems to be the tactic that works best. If you dwell too much on the past,
    if there's too much discussion about the past, then it becomes fertile
    ground for those who oppose giving the apology. The idea is to always keep
    looking at the big picture, and one useful big picture is the future. I
    think that's the way that successful apologies are done and politicians
    recognize that.

    K.M.-Countless massacres and crimes against humanity have been committed in
    the last two centuries alone. At some point, one might argue that everyone
    has to say sorry to everyone else. Why are some apologies more "important"
    than others?

    M.N.-The aggrieved groups themselves must ask for it and others have to see
    something in it for them. In fact, not everyone is asking for apologies
    because there's a certain distrust of apology. Some people ask, "What's that
    apology going to do?" They think, "They don't mean it," or "If I have to ask
    for it then it's not worth getting," or "They are morally bankrupt and don't
    even know that they should apologize," or "Whatever they could do for me
    wouldn't be worth it." So there are reasons why some people wouldn't even
    think about asking for an apology, because they think it would be somehow
    tainted.

    Are some apologies more important than others? I don't think there are
    absolute measures. But at least in politics, it seems, the ones that are
    considered worthy are the ones where the people who are giving it stand to
    gain too.

    K.M.-If a crime happened in the past but continues to have great
    implications today and cause great distress, do you think it's more "worthy"
    of being addressed? I have in mind the Native Americans, African-Americans.

    M.N.-I agree with the gist of your argument. But many would argue that what
    happened in the U.S. happened. That we have found other ways of dealing with
    African-American and Native American grievances, and apology is kind of
    beside the point. They would say that an apology would be so polarizing that
    it will do more harm than good.

    In general, though, I think that if any party is going to do it, it's the
    Democrats, although they haven't endorsed an apology-not even Bill Clinton.

    K.M.-What do you think about gestures by ordinary people who apologize
    despite their government's reluctance to do so?

    M.N.-Australia is a good example of that. When former Prime Minister John
    Howard refused to apologize, he ended up inadvertently fostering what is
    known as the people's movement. Australians themselves were signing sorry
    books. Some critics judged it as political theatre, but I didn't view it
    that way. The Australians were telling Aboriginal Australians, "Listening to
    you makes me think about what happened, makes me think about you as a
    neighbor that I care about. The government can't change our attitudes. We're
    citizens, and we can apologize."

    It seems to me that an official apology accompanied by real, serious
    engagement by the population-as we've seen in Canada, Australia and New
    Zealand, yet haven't seen here in the U.S.-makes a big difference in the
    quality of life in those countries.
    --------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------

    2. Mephisto's Coffee-Table Book
    'Never Again, Again, Again.' Scrapbooks Humanity's Genocidal Descent
    By Andy Turpin

    Far flung from the likes of Rachel Ray and strategically placed back issues
    of "Architectural Digest" is a very different kind of coffee-table
    photography book that doesn't scream to be elegantly in the background.
    Rather, it just screams.

    Human rights and genocide photographer Lane H. Montgomery's newly compiled
    book, Never Again, Again, Again (Ruder Finn Press, Inc., 2008) is a
    gruesome, moving and comprehensive masterwork of photographic timelines
    encompassing all the major genocides of the 20th century, beginning with the
    Armenian genocide and ending its coverage only a few months ago with the
    latest news of devastation from Darfur.

    Up-to-the-minute death is never something to be proud of, but the book does
    its homework.

    Contributors on the history of the various genocides, their origins and
    aftermaths, include Richard G. Hovannisian, professor of Modern Armenian
    history at UCLA; Rabbi Arthur Schneier, president of the Appeal for
    Conscience Foundation; Ambassador James Rosenthal, the former director of
    State Department Vietnam, Laos and Cambodian Affairs; Terry George, the
    writer and director of "Hotel Rwanda"; and Chuck Sudetic, New York Times
    Balkan correspondent.

    The pictures themselves speak volumes about man's plunges into the lowest
    depths of himself, but the texts chosen to represent each epoch are well
    selected and tell recollectory passages, rather than being simply caption
    fodder.

    An example of which comes through in a cable from Lee Miller, Vogue's
    photographer, on May 8, 1945, upon accompanying the 7th Army to liberate
    Dachau. He wrote: "I implore you to believe this is true. No question that
    German civilians knew what went on. Railway siding into Dachau camp runs
    past villas, with trains of dead and semi-dead deportees. I usually don't
    take pictures of horrors, but don't think that every town and every area isn't
    rich with them. I hope Vogue will feel that it can publish these pictures."

    Vogue ran Lee's cable below the headline in extra bold: "BELIEVE IT."

    Also of note is the extensive coverage of the Cambodian genocide, one rarely
    understood and seldom taught in American education facilities. And the
    appendix notes on the equally understated Ukrainian genocide perpetrated by
    Stalin in the 1930s.

    Written of Cambodia to paraphrase the events and mindset of the genocidaires
    is the Khmer Rouge slogan, "'To spare you is no profit, to destroy you is no
    loss'. 17,000 people entered Tuol Sleng [death camp], only 6 survived."

    Perhaps Never Again, Again, Again isn't Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem or
    Werfel's Musa Dagh, but for those with just a New York minute to spare, it
    only takes a minute to look at these photos and be leveled to your core.
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