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RIGHTS AND INTERESTS BELONG TO THE WHOLE ARMENIAN NATION AND NOT JUST
TO THE CHURCH
ARTHUR HOVHANNISYAN
Hayots Ashkhar Daily
15 Nov 08
Armenia
Below we present an interview with Archbishop SAHAK MASHALYAN,
inspector of the Gevorgyan Seminary, who was a clergyman in Jerusalem
for three years. The topic of our conversation is devoted to the
clashes incited by the Greek clergyman last Sunday, November 9, in St.
Haroutyun temple, Jerusalem (near the grave of Jesus Christ). The
clashes took place between the religious representatives of the Greek
and Armenian churches.
`Your Holiness, what caused the clashes between the Armenian and Greek
clergymen?'
`According to the status quo established long ago, the temple is to be
used by the Armenians who should possess certain rights there. To have
a good understanding of the issue it is necessary to imagine the
structure of the building.
The entire space of the temple is topped by a dome, with the grave of
Jesus Christ lying right in the centre. It has two rooms: an entrance
room and a room in which the thumb-stone is situated. That's to say,
the mausoleum consisting of two rooms lies in the centre of the square.
The Armenian clergymen have the right to walk around the temple in
procession and then go into the vault and bow to the gravestone at
least ten times a year.
However, four of the religious ceremonies20of the Armenian clergymen
coincide, in time aspect, with the similar visits of the clergymen of
the Greek Church; these are occasions for meeting with them because
their religious calendar coincides with ours in terms of those
ceremonies. One of them is the Discovery the Cross.
Last Sunday, when the Armenian clergymen were there, the Greek
clergymen expressed desire for having a monk near the gravestone. This
meant the following: You, Armenians, came here, went into the vault,
worshipped the God, but you should know that we are the owners here,
and you do that with our permission. However during such previously
planned ceremonies, the given territory belongs to the church of the
nation which is holding a service there.
That's to say, at the moment when there are Armenian clergymen inside
the vault, no representative of the Greek or Catholic Church is allowed
to be there. The same concerns the Armenian clergymen; they do not have
the right to be inside the territory when, for instance, the Greek
clergymen are holding a service. While we are holding a ceremony, the
Greek or Catholic churches may have their representatives outside, and
during their ceremonies, our representative may be outside the church.
As I said, violating the order, the Greek clergymen wanted their
representative to be inside the vault while our clergymen were holding
a previously planned service there.'
`Actually, there were20controversies not only between the Armenian and
Greek clergymen who scuffled and clashed with one another but also the
Armenian and Greek representatives of the commission which followed the
observance of the situation or the status quo regulated by a relevant
manifesto long ago. What solutions do you think are possible in such
situation when they are attempting to obtain or seize extra rights not
envisaged by the document?'
`It is necessary for our state to make an intervention in compliance
with international norms and other laws. After all, if the conflict is
not settled on the level of the churches, it will have to be resolved
through court procedures; the court will have to make a decision.
However, if the claim is submitted to the judicial instances of Israel,
there may emerge other problems. They may demonstrate partiality, as
they have done over centuries. And the courts are not independent, as a
matter of fact; after all, they form part of the given country and
pursue a certain policy.
This is the reason we say that the settlement of the issue should not
be left to the discretion of Jerusalem. It is necessary to apply to the
international court and find mediators. Armenia, as a state, should
intervene is these matters. That's to say, we have to show that the
Armenians are not alone, and those rights belong not only to the church
but also to the whole Armenian nation.
=0
AThis is one of the rare cases when the Armenian Apostolic Church needs
the support of the state although it is separated from it. And not only
the state, but also the political parties and their leaders. The
political parties should include the issue of Jerusalem (which is more
important than such clashes) in their programs.'
`What do you mean by that? Would you give details?'
`After the new US President assumes his post, the issue of Palestine
will most probably be the first thing to be put on the table. Israel
has almost recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine as well,
and if that really happens, they will have to divide the old Jerusalem.
The Jews want the Armenian districts to remain in their part; as to the
Latins and Greeks who have already become Arab Christians, they want
them to remain in the Palestine-controlled territory of the town.
Yasser Araffat was against that and wished the Armenian territories to
remain in the Palestine-controlled part of the Jerusalem. And the
Armenians do not want that; they don't want to be separated from the
other Christians.
Depending on the way the problem is solved, it may or may not have an
impact on the rights existing in the temple. The question is where we
should be during the negotiations; whether we should become faced with
facts after everything is settled or we should participate in the
negotiations and say
that we also possess certain rights and have
something to say there.
Even if we remain in the Israeli-controlled part of Jerusalem, that's
no problem. But all our rights should be ensured, and we should have
guarantees that they will be protected in future. If, some time in
future, the Jews say, `This is mountain Sion, and you have nothing to
do here, so go away!' and demand that we pay 100 million Dollars, what
should we do?'
To be continued
TO THE CHURCH
ARTHUR HOVHANNISYAN
Hayots Ashkhar Daily
15 Nov 08
Armenia
Below we present an interview with Archbishop SAHAK MASHALYAN,
inspector of the Gevorgyan Seminary, who was a clergyman in Jerusalem
for three years. The topic of our conversation is devoted to the
clashes incited by the Greek clergyman last Sunday, November 9, in St.
Haroutyun temple, Jerusalem (near the grave of Jesus Christ). The
clashes took place between the religious representatives of the Greek
and Armenian churches.
`Your Holiness, what caused the clashes between the Armenian and Greek
clergymen?'
`According to the status quo established long ago, the temple is to be
used by the Armenians who should possess certain rights there. To have
a good understanding of the issue it is necessary to imagine the
structure of the building.
The entire space of the temple is topped by a dome, with the grave of
Jesus Christ lying right in the centre. It has two rooms: an entrance
room and a room in which the thumb-stone is situated. That's to say,
the mausoleum consisting of two rooms lies in the centre of the square.
The Armenian clergymen have the right to walk around the temple in
procession and then go into the vault and bow to the gravestone at
least ten times a year.
However, four of the religious ceremonies20of the Armenian clergymen
coincide, in time aspect, with the similar visits of the clergymen of
the Greek Church; these are occasions for meeting with them because
their religious calendar coincides with ours in terms of those
ceremonies. One of them is the Discovery the Cross.
Last Sunday, when the Armenian clergymen were there, the Greek
clergymen expressed desire for having a monk near the gravestone. This
meant the following: You, Armenians, came here, went into the vault,
worshipped the God, but you should know that we are the owners here,
and you do that with our permission. However during such previously
planned ceremonies, the given territory belongs to the church of the
nation which is holding a service there.
That's to say, at the moment when there are Armenian clergymen inside
the vault, no representative of the Greek or Catholic Church is allowed
to be there. The same concerns the Armenian clergymen; they do not have
the right to be inside the territory when, for instance, the Greek
clergymen are holding a service. While we are holding a ceremony, the
Greek or Catholic churches may have their representatives outside, and
during their ceremonies, our representative may be outside the church.
As I said, violating the order, the Greek clergymen wanted their
representative to be inside the vault while our clergymen were holding
a previously planned service there.'
`Actually, there were20controversies not only between the Armenian and
Greek clergymen who scuffled and clashed with one another but also the
Armenian and Greek representatives of the commission which followed the
observance of the situation or the status quo regulated by a relevant
manifesto long ago. What solutions do you think are possible in such
situation when they are attempting to obtain or seize extra rights not
envisaged by the document?'
`It is necessary for our state to make an intervention in compliance
with international norms and other laws. After all, if the conflict is
not settled on the level of the churches, it will have to be resolved
through court procedures; the court will have to make a decision.
However, if the claim is submitted to the judicial instances of Israel,
there may emerge other problems. They may demonstrate partiality, as
they have done over centuries. And the courts are not independent, as a
matter of fact; after all, they form part of the given country and
pursue a certain policy.
This is the reason we say that the settlement of the issue should not
be left to the discretion of Jerusalem. It is necessary to apply to the
international court and find mediators. Armenia, as a state, should
intervene is these matters. That's to say, we have to show that the
Armenians are not alone, and those rights belong not only to the church
but also to the whole Armenian nation.
=0
AThis is one of the rare cases when the Armenian Apostolic Church needs
the support of the state although it is separated from it. And not only
the state, but also the political parties and their leaders. The
political parties should include the issue of Jerusalem (which is more
important than such clashes) in their programs.'
`What do you mean by that? Would you give details?'
`After the new US President assumes his post, the issue of Palestine
will most probably be the first thing to be put on the table. Israel
has almost recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine as well,
and if that really happens, they will have to divide the old Jerusalem.
The Jews want the Armenian districts to remain in their part; as to the
Latins and Greeks who have already become Arab Christians, they want
them to remain in the Palestine-controlled territory of the town.
Yasser Araffat was against that and wished the Armenian territories to
remain in the Palestine-controlled part of the Jerusalem. And the
Armenians do not want that; they don't want to be separated from the
other Christians.
Depending on the way the problem is solved, it may or may not have an
impact on the rights existing in the temple. The question is where we
should be during the negotiations; whether we should become faced with
facts after everything is settled or we should participate in the
negotiations and say
that we also possess certain rights and have
something to say there.
Even if we remain in the Israeli-controlled part of Jerusalem, that's
no problem. But all our rights should be ensured, and we should have
guarantees that they will be protected in future. If, some time in
future, the Jews say, `This is mountain Sion, and you have nothing to
do here, so go away!' and demand that we pay 100 million Dollars, what
should we do?'
To be continued