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"ARMENIAN ORIGIN OF HAMSHENS SEEMS MORE PROBABLE TO ME"
"Noravank" Foundation
02 October 2008
In July of the current year, within the framework of "Hamshen week"
in Yerevan took place the concert of "Vova" concert group. The group
has been set up with the effort of a number of Hamshens. Since 1996
they have been gathering Hamshen national songs and tunes, which in
most of the cases have no names. As one of the group leaders Hikmek
Akchicheq mentions, they are very much worried that in the quickly
changing world a serious danger can be exposed both to the Hamshen
dialect and the songs in this dialect, and they have an objective to
gather, arrange and hand on the generations to come Hamshen unique
tunes and songs.
If we take into consideration Turkey's scrupulous approach to ethnic
problems, than the visit of this company to Armenia may be considered
quite a brave step. In Yerevan after the concert and conference devoted
to Hamshen Armenians we conversed with Hikmet Akchicheq about some
problems concerning to Hamshen Armenians inhabited in Turkey. I'll
mention that music is Hikmet's hobby: he comes from Hopa, however,
he lives and works in Istanbul. Besides, Hikmet is the member of
socialistic party "Freedom and Solidarity," he is also engaged in
politics. His cagy and diplomatic replies in the interview may be
reasoned by the above mentioned circu mstances.
R.M.
Question: It is known that there are different standpoint on the
origin of Hamshen Armenians: many people think that Hamshens have
Armenian origin, and the others ascribe to them Turkish origin. I'd
like to know your opinion on the matter.
Reply: I'm not a historian and I learn about historical facts from
different sources. However, should one ratiocinate, than Armenian
origin of Hamshens seems more creditable to me. It goes without
saying that following my political convictions I'm not proud of my
national belonging and I'm not ashamed of it. There is no difference
for me what is my origin - Armenian, Turkish or Arabic. I'll also
mention that that there are young Hamshens, in particular, carriers
of socialistic ideas, who don't conceal their Armenian origin, and
among them there are even some who are pleased with it. There are
young Hamshens with opposition views who consider their Armenian
origin to be the manifestation of their opposition origin.
However, I don't think so and I don't consider that my being Hamshen
must make me oppositionist.
Question: Does it mean that there are people among the Hamshen youth
that openly confess of their being Hamshen?
Reply: I rather want to say that the ones who find out their Armenian
origin are not warred as they don't look at the world from the
standpoint of national belonging. Besides, there are people who
consider the Armenian origin of Hamshens to be true.
Question: As a specialist of Turkish philology I know that in
Turkey it has always been carried out persecution policy to national
minorities and concealment of ethnic belonging may be connected with
this circumstance.
Reply: Just like in many states in Turkey as well there is not a
policy encouraging research conducting in connection with ethnic
belonging of people, developing any activity on this ground.
Question: Do you speak among yourselves in your families about your
Armenian origin?
Reply: Yes we do, as Hamshens and Lazes in Hopa and Georgians in
Borchka live together, people and nations have common memories and
stereotypes connected with one another and the past. For example,
for the Hamshens of these districts it is very common the expression
"stubborn Armenian." I remember that in my childhood when we were
quarreling or fighting with our neighborhood children they were calling
us "Armenians" and running away. Perhaps, they heard the conversations
about Hamshens' Armenian origin from their parents. As Armenians were
perceived under the category of rival nations, the Hamshen-child taking
offence of the word "Armenian," ran away with tears in his eyes and
asked his parents if he was really Armenian. Later on, I suppose when
I was a student (in the beginning of 1980s), I had quite a lot of =0
Ainformation about the probability of our Armenian origin so I asked
my uncle about it. He answered, "My son, they say that our ancestors
had been apostate Armenians."
Question: I've earlier heard from the very Hamshens that religion
doesn't have such influence on you, that's to say, you don't follow
all the principles of Islam. As an example it is mentioned using of
alcoholic drinks, seldom attendance of mosques etc. They say that it is
possibly connected with leftist ideas adhered by most of the Hamshens.
Reply: No, it has nothing connected with leftist ides. I supposed in
spite of the fact that Hamshens are not very much educated, they have
taken the way of reasonable Islam, and most of them don't have fanatic
inclination to religion. For example, Hamshens may drink by day and
pray in the evening or vica versa. In the period of Ramadan they fast,
go to pray, however, two days later they may eat and have a good drink.
Question: How do you appreciate the condition of the "Hamshen"
language, or more exactly the Hamshen dialect of the Armenian language?
Reply: The Hamshen language is at the edge of extermination, and it
is more connected with globalization, growth in the number of urban
population than with Turkey's policy. The usage of the language becomes
more and rarer especially among the city inhabitants. The young women
first of all teach t heir children Turkish and not the Hamshen language
for their children not to undergo any language discrimination and
not to have any problems. For example, at present I live in Istambul,
my wife is not Hamshen, and it is hardly possible for the two of my
daughters to learn the Hamshen language.
In reality it is very difficult, and besides, there is not the natural
surrounding making people learn this language, and this and not the
other things is the real danger. That's to say such preconditions
play more important role in the matter of loosing the language than
state policy.
Besides, such a state policy is not new, it was also carried out in
the Ottoman epoch. I want to say, I ascribe such a policy not only
to Turkey: It is adherent to all the nation states.
Question: From different sources it is known that, for example, the
apostate Armenians of Turkey and their generations have preserved the
tradition of inter-community marriages. Is this tradition preserved
among Hamshens or is it also lost?
Reply: Let's say so: It is hardly possible for a Hamshen inhabited in
Hopa to marry a non-Hamshen. There, Hamshens mainly marry Hamshens,
Lazes marry Lazzes, Georgians - with Georgians. However, as it
has already been told, city inhabitants and the ones living in big
settlements in other surroundings don't always follow this tradition.
Question: Have there been preserved Christian customs and=2
0ceremonials among the Hamshens in Turkey?
Reply: To tell the truth I can't say which of the traditions or
holidays has Christian grounding, but I'll say that we, the Hamshens
of Hopa, have been brought up on the basis of Islamic culture and we
follow it.
However, there is such a peculiarity: the Hamshens of Hopa have
preserved the language but they don't hold to traditions, which is
very strange.
But in comparison with them in Rez and in the district of Chamlhenshin
(where the language is not preserved - P.M.) are particularly very
common nation games, a number of traditions, for example, Vardavar
and others.
Question: Much interest has been shown in both Hamshens and other
Islamized citizens of Turkey - Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians recently,
and besides some political speculations have begun. What do you think
of it?
Reply: It goes without saying that revelation of various historic
events and human tragedies is very interesting and exerts certain
influence on people.
For example, in Anatolia one can find hundreds and thousands of stories
which are alike the book by Fethiye Cetin. And it is necessary to make
a ground for us to be able to speak about it. I think that an important
step towards it is Turkey's democratization. However, it is also true
that in any other country such historians and their revelations worry
the carriers of narrow national ideas. I think 0Athat such subjects
are to be far from political speculation; they can not do anybody good.
Question: If we take cultural, language and other commonalities between
Armenians and Hamshens as a starting point how you think the future
relations between the Armenians in Armenia and Hamshens should be?
Reply: We live in the same geographical zone. I can't treat you like
strangers such as Englishmen and Germans. Our feelings and standpoints
are quite common. More than the relations between Armenians and
Hamshens I want a dialogue and multilateral good neighborly relations
to be established between Armenia and Turkey.
The interview was conducted by Ruben Melkonyan
"Noravank" Foundation
02 October 2008
In July of the current year, within the framework of "Hamshen week"
in Yerevan took place the concert of "Vova" concert group. The group
has been set up with the effort of a number of Hamshens. Since 1996
they have been gathering Hamshen national songs and tunes, which in
most of the cases have no names. As one of the group leaders Hikmek
Akchicheq mentions, they are very much worried that in the quickly
changing world a serious danger can be exposed both to the Hamshen
dialect and the songs in this dialect, and they have an objective to
gather, arrange and hand on the generations to come Hamshen unique
tunes and songs.
If we take into consideration Turkey's scrupulous approach to ethnic
problems, than the visit of this company to Armenia may be considered
quite a brave step. In Yerevan after the concert and conference devoted
to Hamshen Armenians we conversed with Hikmet Akchicheq about some
problems concerning to Hamshen Armenians inhabited in Turkey. I'll
mention that music is Hikmet's hobby: he comes from Hopa, however,
he lives and works in Istanbul. Besides, Hikmet is the member of
socialistic party "Freedom and Solidarity," he is also engaged in
politics. His cagy and diplomatic replies in the interview may be
reasoned by the above mentioned circu mstances.
R.M.
Question: It is known that there are different standpoint on the
origin of Hamshen Armenians: many people think that Hamshens have
Armenian origin, and the others ascribe to them Turkish origin. I'd
like to know your opinion on the matter.
Reply: I'm not a historian and I learn about historical facts from
different sources. However, should one ratiocinate, than Armenian
origin of Hamshens seems more creditable to me. It goes without
saying that following my political convictions I'm not proud of my
national belonging and I'm not ashamed of it. There is no difference
for me what is my origin - Armenian, Turkish or Arabic. I'll also
mention that that there are young Hamshens, in particular, carriers
of socialistic ideas, who don't conceal their Armenian origin, and
among them there are even some who are pleased with it. There are
young Hamshens with opposition views who consider their Armenian
origin to be the manifestation of their opposition origin.
However, I don't think so and I don't consider that my being Hamshen
must make me oppositionist.
Question: Does it mean that there are people among the Hamshen youth
that openly confess of their being Hamshen?
Reply: I rather want to say that the ones who find out their Armenian
origin are not warred as they don't look at the world from the
standpoint of national belonging. Besides, there are people who
consider the Armenian origin of Hamshens to be true.
Question: As a specialist of Turkish philology I know that in
Turkey it has always been carried out persecution policy to national
minorities and concealment of ethnic belonging may be connected with
this circumstance.
Reply: Just like in many states in Turkey as well there is not a
policy encouraging research conducting in connection with ethnic
belonging of people, developing any activity on this ground.
Question: Do you speak among yourselves in your families about your
Armenian origin?
Reply: Yes we do, as Hamshens and Lazes in Hopa and Georgians in
Borchka live together, people and nations have common memories and
stereotypes connected with one another and the past. For example,
for the Hamshens of these districts it is very common the expression
"stubborn Armenian." I remember that in my childhood when we were
quarreling or fighting with our neighborhood children they were calling
us "Armenians" and running away. Perhaps, they heard the conversations
about Hamshens' Armenian origin from their parents. As Armenians were
perceived under the category of rival nations, the Hamshen-child taking
offence of the word "Armenian," ran away with tears in his eyes and
asked his parents if he was really Armenian. Later on, I suppose when
I was a student (in the beginning of 1980s), I had quite a lot of =0
Ainformation about the probability of our Armenian origin so I asked
my uncle about it. He answered, "My son, they say that our ancestors
had been apostate Armenians."
Question: I've earlier heard from the very Hamshens that religion
doesn't have such influence on you, that's to say, you don't follow
all the principles of Islam. As an example it is mentioned using of
alcoholic drinks, seldom attendance of mosques etc. They say that it is
possibly connected with leftist ideas adhered by most of the Hamshens.
Reply: No, it has nothing connected with leftist ides. I supposed in
spite of the fact that Hamshens are not very much educated, they have
taken the way of reasonable Islam, and most of them don't have fanatic
inclination to religion. For example, Hamshens may drink by day and
pray in the evening or vica versa. In the period of Ramadan they fast,
go to pray, however, two days later they may eat and have a good drink.
Question: How do you appreciate the condition of the "Hamshen"
language, or more exactly the Hamshen dialect of the Armenian language?
Reply: The Hamshen language is at the edge of extermination, and it
is more connected with globalization, growth in the number of urban
population than with Turkey's policy. The usage of the language becomes
more and rarer especially among the city inhabitants. The young women
first of all teach t heir children Turkish and not the Hamshen language
for their children not to undergo any language discrimination and
not to have any problems. For example, at present I live in Istambul,
my wife is not Hamshen, and it is hardly possible for the two of my
daughters to learn the Hamshen language.
In reality it is very difficult, and besides, there is not the natural
surrounding making people learn this language, and this and not the
other things is the real danger. That's to say such preconditions
play more important role in the matter of loosing the language than
state policy.
Besides, such a state policy is not new, it was also carried out in
the Ottoman epoch. I want to say, I ascribe such a policy not only
to Turkey: It is adherent to all the nation states.
Question: From different sources it is known that, for example, the
apostate Armenians of Turkey and their generations have preserved the
tradition of inter-community marriages. Is this tradition preserved
among Hamshens or is it also lost?
Reply: Let's say so: It is hardly possible for a Hamshen inhabited in
Hopa to marry a non-Hamshen. There, Hamshens mainly marry Hamshens,
Lazes marry Lazzes, Georgians - with Georgians. However, as it
has already been told, city inhabitants and the ones living in big
settlements in other surroundings don't always follow this tradition.
Question: Have there been preserved Christian customs and=2
0ceremonials among the Hamshens in Turkey?
Reply: To tell the truth I can't say which of the traditions or
holidays has Christian grounding, but I'll say that we, the Hamshens
of Hopa, have been brought up on the basis of Islamic culture and we
follow it.
However, there is such a peculiarity: the Hamshens of Hopa have
preserved the language but they don't hold to traditions, which is
very strange.
But in comparison with them in Rez and in the district of Chamlhenshin
(where the language is not preserved - P.M.) are particularly very
common nation games, a number of traditions, for example, Vardavar
and others.
Question: Much interest has been shown in both Hamshens and other
Islamized citizens of Turkey - Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians recently,
and besides some political speculations have begun. What do you think
of it?
Reply: It goes without saying that revelation of various historic
events and human tragedies is very interesting and exerts certain
influence on people.
For example, in Anatolia one can find hundreds and thousands of stories
which are alike the book by Fethiye Cetin. And it is necessary to make
a ground for us to be able to speak about it. I think that an important
step towards it is Turkey's democratization. However, it is also true
that in any other country such historians and their revelations worry
the carriers of narrow national ideas. I think 0Athat such subjects
are to be far from political speculation; they can not do anybody good.
Question: If we take cultural, language and other commonalities between
Armenians and Hamshens as a starting point how you think the future
relations between the Armenians in Armenia and Hamshens should be?
Reply: We live in the same geographical zone. I can't treat you like
strangers such as Englishmen and Germans. Our feelings and standpoints
are quite common. More than the relations between Armenians and
Hamshens I want a dialogue and multilateral good neighborly relations
to be established between Armenia and Turkey.
The interview was conducted by Ruben Melkonyan