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Day.az , Azerbaijan
Sept 9 2008
Zardust Alizada: We can easily come to terms with the Armenian public
on friendly terms with Turkey as against the part of the Armenian
public depending unambiguously on Russia
9 September: A Day.az interview with Azerbaijani political expert
Zardust Alizada.
[Correspondent] The fuss around the latest visit of Turkish President
Abdullah Gul to Yerevan is not dying down. The majority of the
observers in Azerbaijan inclined to see more negative aspects rather
than positive moments. What is your assessment of the processes under
way?
Successful ever government
[Alizada] [Passage omitted: The Turkish prime minister has been
carrying out profound reforms]
So everything is fine with [Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip
Erdogan]. The only problem is the Armenian issue. Armenia speaks about
the "genocide" everywhere, has territorial claims to Turkey. Since
Turkey was very interested in Azerbaijan in the beginning of 1990s, it
has begun to strategically support our country.
Nevertheless, Azerbaijan turned out to be insufficiently good
partner. Turks started to train our military, supply ammunition and
weapons, but eventually, they saw that Azerbaijan was not interested
in Karabakh up to the mark. Turkey is in excellent relations with
Syria, Iraq, Iran, Georgia, and Russia with everyone, except for
Armenia.
The security of any state is measured by its relations with
neighbours. What should the government do in such conditions? Turkey
has done a lot for the adjustment of dialogue and improvement of the
relations, having no diplomatic relations with Armenia; it allowed
Armenian citizens to arrive in Turkey in search of a living. That is
to say, they have made some layers of the Armenian population
economically dependent on themselves, like, for example, Russia has
made the major part of the Azerbaijani population dependent on itself.
Ankara boosts business ties with Yerevan
Ankara has begun to encourage the development of the Armenian-Turkish
business relations and at present Armenian businessmen do business
absolutely free in Turkey. The Turkish leadership has been encouraging
contacts at the level of civil societies, which is also good.
And finally, voices are being heard in Armenia that Turks are not
enemies but neighbours through which the road runs to Europe. Of
course, these voices are weak against the background of those who
shout "Russia is our future!", "Owing to Russia, we have taken away
Karabakh!" and so on. Nevertheless, a struggle has started, the
stratification of Armenian society has started and Turkey will benefit
from it.
Therefore, I think that the visit of Gul to Yerevan is very wise step;
it is a very bold step towards the start of intensive dialogue. This
reminds me "a ping pong diplomacy" between America and China in 1970s,
and "the wrestlers' diplomacy" when Iranian wrestlers arrived in
America and Americans to Iran.
I think that Gul undertook a positive step which will serve
improvement of the relations between Armenia and Turkey and increases
the level of security and mutual understanding in the region. Here
crops up another issue: do we not need the establishment of security
and cooperation in the region for a peaceful resolution of the
Karabakh problem as our government claims? Or, does everyone need to
be at loggerheads with one another for this? The second is absolutely
illogical. I think Erdogan is a wisest Turkish politician after
Ataturk, he has been ruling over the country in a brilliant manner and
reforms Turkey by leading it forward.
Improvement of ties to be conducive to regional cooperation
[Correspondent] Consequently, will the visit of Gul to Armenia be only
to our benefit?
[Alizada] Certainly. Just imagine a situation, the mutual relations
between Armenia and Turkey will improve, the Armenian economy will be
attached to the Turkish one, Armenian society will orient itself to
the Turkish one, and given this voices of those who shout: "Enmity
between Turks and Armenians are for ever" will not enjoy support. And
in this situation, we shall easily agree, find a compromise decision
with the Armenian public in friendly terms with Turkey but not with
that part of the Armenian public depending unambiguously on Russia.
Russia's influence over Armenia huge
[Correspondent] Incidentally, will it be possible to succeed in all
these, bearing in mind the current dependence of the Armenian
leadership from Russia?
[Alizada] It is outright that Russia has fastened Armenia to itself
with many belts. The first such a belt is the military bases which
have been established by no means against Azerbaijan but to keep the
Armenian society under control as well as the army as the most
effective instrument of the Armenian society.
The second belt is the Armenian national mythology about the enmity to
Turks, which has been cultivated and supported by the Russian science,
propaganda and special services, knowing thereby that they tear
Armenia from the Turkic world and fasten to Russia.
The third belt is the Karabakh army, which sits around Yerevan and
controls the Armenian opposition.
The fourth is the Armenian politicians, mainly; those who have come
out from the Karabakh movement and are for a union with Russia,
including the same Levon Ter-Petrosyan.
The fifth belt is [Karabakh president] Bako Sahakyan, an officer of
the GRU [Main Intelligence Directorate of the Russian Defence
Ministry] who is in Karabakh to control both [Armenian President]
Serzh [Sargsyan] and Robik [ex-president] Robert Kocharyan, through
whom Russia governs Armenia.
In order to break all those belts, Turkey has begun to alter its
policy, using peace potential, economy, cooperation, and Azerbaijan
also should change its approaches since our country's foreign policy
in this direction is completely ineffective.
Turkish prime minister's initiative doomed to failure
[Correspondent] And, nevertheless, are you still convinced that the
initiative of Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan on a Caucasus Stability
and Cooperation Platform lacks any prospect?
[Alizada] Yes, this initiative is absolutely senseless. Look: Georgia
has unambiguously orients itself to Europe, America and NATO, Armenia
is now unambiguously attached to Russia; in its turn, Azerbaijan
balances between them, saying: "Do not hinder us to rob our own
people". That's it. Can there be an alliance among a crawfish, a pike
and a crane?
[Correspondent] Will Turkey succeed in realizing own interests in such
a complicated situation?
[Alizada] Turkey is very powerful and independent country in order to
be subjected to someone's influence. Yes, Turks use Georgia as a
transit route, they built an oil pipeline worth 4bn dollars at our
expense, although the Iranian route to the tune of 300m dollars would
be more profitable and secure.
Azerbaijan for Turkey is a jumping board for entering more promising
and powerful Central Asian region. Owing to the future of Turkey in
the Turkic speaking world, the price of this country grows in the eyes
of America. I myself heard in Ankara words of the [now former]
chairman of the Social Democratic People's Party, Erdal Inonu, that
after the demise of the USSR, Turkey has gained brilliant chance with
regard to Turkic countries of the former Soviet Union, and that one
should not forget that Ankara can realize this potential only in
alliance with the USA.
In other words, Turks and Americans act in tandem in the issue of
entering of the West and Turkey into the Turkic republics. In this
process, quoting cultural and other common features with other
countries of the Turkic world, Turks realize their economic and
geopolitical interests and this is normal.
Sept 9 2008
Zardust Alizada: We can easily come to terms with the Armenian public
on friendly terms with Turkey as against the part of the Armenian
public depending unambiguously on Russia
9 September: A Day.az interview with Azerbaijani political expert
Zardust Alizada.
[Correspondent] The fuss around the latest visit of Turkish President
Abdullah Gul to Yerevan is not dying down. The majority of the
observers in Azerbaijan inclined to see more negative aspects rather
than positive moments. What is your assessment of the processes under
way?
Successful ever government
[Alizada] [Passage omitted: The Turkish prime minister has been
carrying out profound reforms]
So everything is fine with [Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip
Erdogan]. The only problem is the Armenian issue. Armenia speaks about
the "genocide" everywhere, has territorial claims to Turkey. Since
Turkey was very interested in Azerbaijan in the beginning of 1990s, it
has begun to strategically support our country.
Nevertheless, Azerbaijan turned out to be insufficiently good
partner. Turks started to train our military, supply ammunition and
weapons, but eventually, they saw that Azerbaijan was not interested
in Karabakh up to the mark. Turkey is in excellent relations with
Syria, Iraq, Iran, Georgia, and Russia with everyone, except for
Armenia.
The security of any state is measured by its relations with
neighbours. What should the government do in such conditions? Turkey
has done a lot for the adjustment of dialogue and improvement of the
relations, having no diplomatic relations with Armenia; it allowed
Armenian citizens to arrive in Turkey in search of a living. That is
to say, they have made some layers of the Armenian population
economically dependent on themselves, like, for example, Russia has
made the major part of the Azerbaijani population dependent on itself.
Ankara boosts business ties with Yerevan
Ankara has begun to encourage the development of the Armenian-Turkish
business relations and at present Armenian businessmen do business
absolutely free in Turkey. The Turkish leadership has been encouraging
contacts at the level of civil societies, which is also good.
And finally, voices are being heard in Armenia that Turks are not
enemies but neighbours through which the road runs to Europe. Of
course, these voices are weak against the background of those who
shout "Russia is our future!", "Owing to Russia, we have taken away
Karabakh!" and so on. Nevertheless, a struggle has started, the
stratification of Armenian society has started and Turkey will benefit
from it.
Therefore, I think that the visit of Gul to Yerevan is very wise step;
it is a very bold step towards the start of intensive dialogue. This
reminds me "a ping pong diplomacy" between America and China in 1970s,
and "the wrestlers' diplomacy" when Iranian wrestlers arrived in
America and Americans to Iran.
I think that Gul undertook a positive step which will serve
improvement of the relations between Armenia and Turkey and increases
the level of security and mutual understanding in the region. Here
crops up another issue: do we not need the establishment of security
and cooperation in the region for a peaceful resolution of the
Karabakh problem as our government claims? Or, does everyone need to
be at loggerheads with one another for this? The second is absolutely
illogical. I think Erdogan is a wisest Turkish politician after
Ataturk, he has been ruling over the country in a brilliant manner and
reforms Turkey by leading it forward.
Improvement of ties to be conducive to regional cooperation
[Correspondent] Consequently, will the visit of Gul to Armenia be only
to our benefit?
[Alizada] Certainly. Just imagine a situation, the mutual relations
between Armenia and Turkey will improve, the Armenian economy will be
attached to the Turkish one, Armenian society will orient itself to
the Turkish one, and given this voices of those who shout: "Enmity
between Turks and Armenians are for ever" will not enjoy support. And
in this situation, we shall easily agree, find a compromise decision
with the Armenian public in friendly terms with Turkey but not with
that part of the Armenian public depending unambiguously on Russia.
Russia's influence over Armenia huge
[Correspondent] Incidentally, will it be possible to succeed in all
these, bearing in mind the current dependence of the Armenian
leadership from Russia?
[Alizada] It is outright that Russia has fastened Armenia to itself
with many belts. The first such a belt is the military bases which
have been established by no means against Azerbaijan but to keep the
Armenian society under control as well as the army as the most
effective instrument of the Armenian society.
The second belt is the Armenian national mythology about the enmity to
Turks, which has been cultivated and supported by the Russian science,
propaganda and special services, knowing thereby that they tear
Armenia from the Turkic world and fasten to Russia.
The third belt is the Karabakh army, which sits around Yerevan and
controls the Armenian opposition.
The fourth is the Armenian politicians, mainly; those who have come
out from the Karabakh movement and are for a union with Russia,
including the same Levon Ter-Petrosyan.
The fifth belt is [Karabakh president] Bako Sahakyan, an officer of
the GRU [Main Intelligence Directorate of the Russian Defence
Ministry] who is in Karabakh to control both [Armenian President]
Serzh [Sargsyan] and Robik [ex-president] Robert Kocharyan, through
whom Russia governs Armenia.
In order to break all those belts, Turkey has begun to alter its
policy, using peace potential, economy, cooperation, and Azerbaijan
also should change its approaches since our country's foreign policy
in this direction is completely ineffective.
Turkish prime minister's initiative doomed to failure
[Correspondent] And, nevertheless, are you still convinced that the
initiative of Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan on a Caucasus Stability
and Cooperation Platform lacks any prospect?
[Alizada] Yes, this initiative is absolutely senseless. Look: Georgia
has unambiguously orients itself to Europe, America and NATO, Armenia
is now unambiguously attached to Russia; in its turn, Azerbaijan
balances between them, saying: "Do not hinder us to rob our own
people". That's it. Can there be an alliance among a crawfish, a pike
and a crane?
[Correspondent] Will Turkey succeed in realizing own interests in such
a complicated situation?
[Alizada] Turkey is very powerful and independent country in order to
be subjected to someone's influence. Yes, Turks use Georgia as a
transit route, they built an oil pipeline worth 4bn dollars at our
expense, although the Iranian route to the tune of 300m dollars would
be more profitable and secure.
Azerbaijan for Turkey is a jumping board for entering more promising
and powerful Central Asian region. Owing to the future of Turkey in
the Turkic speaking world, the price of this country grows in the eyes
of America. I myself heard in Ankara words of the [now former]
chairman of the Social Democratic People's Party, Erdal Inonu, that
after the demise of the USSR, Turkey has gained brilliant chance with
regard to Turkic countries of the former Soviet Union, and that one
should not forget that Ankara can realize this potential only in
alliance with the USA.
In other words, Turks and Americans act in tandem in the issue of
entering of the West and Turkey into the Turkic republics. In this
process, quoting cultural and other common features with other
countries of the Turkic world, Turks realize their economic and
geopolitical interests and this is normal.