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DENNIS SAMMUT: "A DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE AZERBAIJANI GOVERNMENT AND ITS CIVIL SOCIETY ON THE KARABAKH CONFLICT WILL MAKE THE POSITION OF AZERBAIJAN IN THE INTERNATIONAL ARENA MUCH STRONGER"
Today.Az
http://www.today.az/news/ politics/47644.html
Sept 18 2008
Azerbaijan
Day.Az interview with chief executive of British NGO LINKS Dennis
Sammut.
- Can you comment about the Russian decision to recognize Abkhazia
and South Ossetia?
- I was surprised that Russia has recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia
unilaterally. Quite apart from the fact that Russia had recognized
Georgia after the collapse of the Soviet Union within the borders of
the Georgia SSR and had been party to various UN and OSCE resolutions
which supported Georgia's territorial integrity, the decision has
wide and long term implications for the whole international system,
but more significantly and immediately it has implications on all the
post soviet space. The status of Abkhazia and South Ossetia should be
defined through a wider international effort and the Russians could
have put their case for independence in such a context.
- How will it influence the situation in the region?
- It makes the situation in the Caucasus even more complicated than
before. I do not believe that this is what the Russians wanted. Russia
has an interest in peace and stability in the Caucasus. It is just
that it sometimes goes to achieve this objective in a heavy handed
manner. Russia has yet to learn the lesson of how to use soft
power. Tanks and guns are not the only way to project power.
- Will the recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia help to resolve
their conflict with Georgia?
- In the short term this is going to make even basic discussions and
negotiations difficult. It will be up to the Georgian leadership to
be pragmatic and not to worry too much about symbols but to engage
with Abkhazia and South Ossetia on more substantial issues. If the
international community is able to be creative and to be united in
wanting peace in the region it can still come up with formulas that
would enable both Georgia, as well as Abkhazia and South Ossetia,
to come out of this with honour. The Abkhaz de facto president, Mr
Bagapsh has been talking about making Abkhazia an offshore financial
centre. Offshore centres need stability to succeed. So I think
once the dust settles down both sides will need to find channels of
communication and ways to move forward.
- And what is the impact of all this on Karabakh?
- Diplomats, both Russian and American and European say that Karabakh
is a different case. But then they said this about Kosovo also! Of
course they are right in that each conflict has its own specific
dynamics but we must expect some fallout from the Georgian crisis
in the Karabakh context too. For me there is one important lesson
to be learnt by everybody, namely that it is a big mistake to leave
these conflicts unresolved. There should now be an urgent renewal of
the effort to solve the Karabakh conflict peacefully and both the
international community and the parties directly involved need to
revitalize the peace process.
- Do you think that the initiative of Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan
to launch a Caucasus Stability and Co-operation platform can contribute
to peace in the region?
- I think the Turkish initiative is long overdue and I congratulate the
Turkish Government and Turkish diplomacy for starting the process. This
is not going to be an easy process. The CSCE process in Europe during
the cold war took ten years to prepare and two years of intensive
negotiations before the Helsinki Final Act could be agreed. I think
we can move quicker in the Caucasus but this will still require a
long term engagement and Turkish diplomacy needs to stick with the
idea through its ups and downs, of which I am sure there will be
many. I believe for this idea to succeed it must be inclusive. The
US and the EU must play a full role. Iran should be brought in. And
then the biggest challenge will be how to engage with the de facto
authorities in Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Nagorno Karabakh. We have
an absolutely new situation now in the Caucasus. In a relatively
small region we have three tier s of political entities: sovereign
states that are part of the international system; states that have
self declared independence and have been recognized by some, and
unrecognized states. How to get everybody round the table to sort
out the mess we are in now is a challenge we all have to engage with.
- How will LINKS change its work to respond to the new situation?
- We have first and foremost to continue providing a space for key
players from different sides to discuss with each other in informal
and semi formal frameworks. I think that if more of this was done in
the previous years between Russians and Georgians and Georgians and
Ossetians we will not be where we are today.
Secondly we will contribute with ideas about how we can move the
different processes forward. We are working closely with other non
governmental organizations in Europe and in the region and we will
intensify this work. Governments must start listening more to what
civil society has to say.
I want to appeal specifically to the Government of Azerbaijan to open
a dialogue with its civil society on the Karabakh conflict and on the
future of the region. Such a dialogue will not be a sign of weakness
but a sign of strength and it will make the position of Azerbaijan
in the international arena much, much stronger. But it will need to
be a real dialogue not something orchestrated for media consumption.
At the moment LINKS is working with other organizations in the
framework of the Consortium Initiative to prepare concrete suggestions
on these issues which we hope to discuss with both the Azerbaijani,
as well as the Armenian government in the near future.
Today.Az
http://www.today.az/news/ politics/47644.html
Sept 18 2008
Azerbaijan
Day.Az interview with chief executive of British NGO LINKS Dennis
Sammut.
- Can you comment about the Russian decision to recognize Abkhazia
and South Ossetia?
- I was surprised that Russia has recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia
unilaterally. Quite apart from the fact that Russia had recognized
Georgia after the collapse of the Soviet Union within the borders of
the Georgia SSR and had been party to various UN and OSCE resolutions
which supported Georgia's territorial integrity, the decision has
wide and long term implications for the whole international system,
but more significantly and immediately it has implications on all the
post soviet space. The status of Abkhazia and South Ossetia should be
defined through a wider international effort and the Russians could
have put their case for independence in such a context.
- How will it influence the situation in the region?
- It makes the situation in the Caucasus even more complicated than
before. I do not believe that this is what the Russians wanted. Russia
has an interest in peace and stability in the Caucasus. It is just
that it sometimes goes to achieve this objective in a heavy handed
manner. Russia has yet to learn the lesson of how to use soft
power. Tanks and guns are not the only way to project power.
- Will the recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia help to resolve
their conflict with Georgia?
- In the short term this is going to make even basic discussions and
negotiations difficult. It will be up to the Georgian leadership to
be pragmatic and not to worry too much about symbols but to engage
with Abkhazia and South Ossetia on more substantial issues. If the
international community is able to be creative and to be united in
wanting peace in the region it can still come up with formulas that
would enable both Georgia, as well as Abkhazia and South Ossetia,
to come out of this with honour. The Abkhaz de facto president, Mr
Bagapsh has been talking about making Abkhazia an offshore financial
centre. Offshore centres need stability to succeed. So I think
once the dust settles down both sides will need to find channels of
communication and ways to move forward.
- And what is the impact of all this on Karabakh?
- Diplomats, both Russian and American and European say that Karabakh
is a different case. But then they said this about Kosovo also! Of
course they are right in that each conflict has its own specific
dynamics but we must expect some fallout from the Georgian crisis
in the Karabakh context too. For me there is one important lesson
to be learnt by everybody, namely that it is a big mistake to leave
these conflicts unresolved. There should now be an urgent renewal of
the effort to solve the Karabakh conflict peacefully and both the
international community and the parties directly involved need to
revitalize the peace process.
- Do you think that the initiative of Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan
to launch a Caucasus Stability and Co-operation platform can contribute
to peace in the region?
- I think the Turkish initiative is long overdue and I congratulate the
Turkish Government and Turkish diplomacy for starting the process. This
is not going to be an easy process. The CSCE process in Europe during
the cold war took ten years to prepare and two years of intensive
negotiations before the Helsinki Final Act could be agreed. I think
we can move quicker in the Caucasus but this will still require a
long term engagement and Turkish diplomacy needs to stick with the
idea through its ups and downs, of which I am sure there will be
many. I believe for this idea to succeed it must be inclusive. The
US and the EU must play a full role. Iran should be brought in. And
then the biggest challenge will be how to engage with the de facto
authorities in Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Nagorno Karabakh. We have
an absolutely new situation now in the Caucasus. In a relatively
small region we have three tier s of political entities: sovereign
states that are part of the international system; states that have
self declared independence and have been recognized by some, and
unrecognized states. How to get everybody round the table to sort
out the mess we are in now is a challenge we all have to engage with.
- How will LINKS change its work to respond to the new situation?
- We have first and foremost to continue providing a space for key
players from different sides to discuss with each other in informal
and semi formal frameworks. I think that if more of this was done in
the previous years between Russians and Georgians and Georgians and
Ossetians we will not be where we are today.
Secondly we will contribute with ideas about how we can move the
different processes forward. We are working closely with other non
governmental organizations in Europe and in the region and we will
intensify this work. Governments must start listening more to what
civil society has to say.
I want to appeal specifically to the Government of Azerbaijan to open
a dialogue with its civil society on the Karabakh conflict and on the
future of the region. Such a dialogue will not be a sign of weakness
but a sign of strength and it will make the position of Azerbaijan
in the international arena much, much stronger. But it will need to
be a real dialogue not something orchestrated for media consumption.
At the moment LINKS is working with other organizations in the
framework of the Consortium Initiative to prepare concrete suggestions
on these issues which we hope to discuss with both the Azerbaijani,
as well as the Armenian government in the near future.