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Georgian Daily, Georgia
April 11 2009
Mikheil Saakashvili : Where Are My Western Friends?
April 11, 2009
Anna Nemtsova
In the largest opposition demonstration in Georgia since November
2007' WHEN President Mikheil Saakashvili tested his democratic
credentials by sending in riot police to quash the protests'tens of
thousands of people filled Tbilisi's leafy Rustaveli Avenue last
Thursday to demand Saakashvili's resignation.
The president retreated to his residence, where he spoke with
NEWSWEEK's Anna Nemtsova about the crowds on the street, his difficult
relationship with Russia and how the West has largely abandoned him in
recent months. Excerpts:
Nemtsova: Who wants your resignation?
Saakashvili: Mostly unemployed people. We fired about 250,000 people
as a result of our reforms. A big percentage of these people have not
managed to find themselves in the new economy. Fighting corruption and
crime, we put thousands of people in jail. In Tbilisi alone we
convicted 8,000 people; all of their relatives are outside today,
asking me to resign.
What is the most painful part of the criticism?
I am not hurt by the criticism in Georgia, as I am hearing it from two
opposition TV channels all day long. I did not expect the West to put
all the relationships with us on hold while waiting for this
revolution. An official delegation from France decided to postpone
their visit. A Turkish company moved a scheduled contract signing
until after April 9, and an Arab company until April 12. What is the
matter with these people? Do we stop going to Paris or Strasbourg
during their street protests?
Who sponsors the Georgian opposition?
Most of the money'millions of dollars'comes from Russian oligarchs. I
have documentary proof of that, which I am not making public
yet. Whether the money is being sent from Russia under the supervision
of the Russian government, that I do not know.
Some experts predict a new military conflict as a result of social
instability in Georgia. How possible is it that Russia and Georgia
will begin another war?
The Russian government would probably be happy to see me leave the
post. I could suppose that some of the military authorities in Russia
think of attacking Georgia today, to say later that it was me who
invaded Russia to distract the attention of my opposition. A week ago
Russian tanks arrived in South Ossetia. We have information that there
are about 5,000 Russian troops in the territory of South Ossetia, and
5,000 troops in Abkhazia.
Do you think President Medvedev would support the idea of another war
with Georgia?
I do not think he would appreciate such an idea, as I saw how happy he
was when President Obama gave him half of a smile. Russia heard
clearly Obama's characterization of the August war. He called it
"invasion," and by that one word Obama drew a red line between Russia
and Georgia. Neither Putin nor Medvedev is interested in crossing it
again today.
Do you think it is possible that the Russian and American presidents
might make a deal over Georgia? How do you think U.S. politics will
affect Georgia under the new president?
The Kremlin might make an attempt to agree with Obama'say, that Russia
helps the U.S. in Afghanistan, Iran and Central Asia, and the
U.S. helps Russia to achieve their geopolitical interests in this
territory, to help Russia change leadership in this country. For many,
I seem to be a dead end for relations with Russia. I used to be much
more charmed by U.S. politics.
Who are your supporters in the U.S. today?
I have quite a few good contacts. Of course, my best friend was always
John McCain. You can say he is Georgian already. We expect McCain to
come and visit us in a week or so. I have good relationships with
Hillary Clinton, Joseph Biden and especially Richard Holbrooke'he is
my teacher. I learned a lot of great things from him.
Do you feel that the West is disappointed with you? Have you been in
touch with President Obama yet?
Oh, yes, I have talked to him on the phone. The problem is not about
us'the problem is about their own internal politics. We have
integrated into U.S. internal politics. So during the change of power,
there was some sort of vacuum in America. Nobody knew what to do with
us. Everybody, including France, was waiting for Obama's guideline on
what to do about Georgia. I admire American ideas. I used to idealize
America under Bush, when ideas were above pragmatic politics. Now it
is a new time, when pragmatic politics are in charge of ideas. That
might spoil the America I know.
Would your policy with Russia be different now if you could turn time
back?
Moscow blamed us for not keeping our promises. I am not sure what
could be done now. I could hardly do anything differently. The values
we appreciate are not embraced by Russia. Should I have compromised?
If I did, we would have been like Kyrgyzstan, losing our democratic
values now, or as poor as Armenia, whose economy fully depends on
Russia. Just as our politics have been independent from the Kremlin
all these years, we will handle the demonstrations as if the Russian
issue did not exist, and Russia as if the demonstrations did not
exist.
URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/193509
April 11 2009
Mikheil Saakashvili : Where Are My Western Friends?
April 11, 2009
Anna Nemtsova
In the largest opposition demonstration in Georgia since November
2007' WHEN President Mikheil Saakashvili tested his democratic
credentials by sending in riot police to quash the protests'tens of
thousands of people filled Tbilisi's leafy Rustaveli Avenue last
Thursday to demand Saakashvili's resignation.
The president retreated to his residence, where he spoke with
NEWSWEEK's Anna Nemtsova about the crowds on the street, his difficult
relationship with Russia and how the West has largely abandoned him in
recent months. Excerpts:
Nemtsova: Who wants your resignation?
Saakashvili: Mostly unemployed people. We fired about 250,000 people
as a result of our reforms. A big percentage of these people have not
managed to find themselves in the new economy. Fighting corruption and
crime, we put thousands of people in jail. In Tbilisi alone we
convicted 8,000 people; all of their relatives are outside today,
asking me to resign.
What is the most painful part of the criticism?
I am not hurt by the criticism in Georgia, as I am hearing it from two
opposition TV channels all day long. I did not expect the West to put
all the relationships with us on hold while waiting for this
revolution. An official delegation from France decided to postpone
their visit. A Turkish company moved a scheduled contract signing
until after April 9, and an Arab company until April 12. What is the
matter with these people? Do we stop going to Paris or Strasbourg
during their street protests?
Who sponsors the Georgian opposition?
Most of the money'millions of dollars'comes from Russian oligarchs. I
have documentary proof of that, which I am not making public
yet. Whether the money is being sent from Russia under the supervision
of the Russian government, that I do not know.
Some experts predict a new military conflict as a result of social
instability in Georgia. How possible is it that Russia and Georgia
will begin another war?
The Russian government would probably be happy to see me leave the
post. I could suppose that some of the military authorities in Russia
think of attacking Georgia today, to say later that it was me who
invaded Russia to distract the attention of my opposition. A week ago
Russian tanks arrived in South Ossetia. We have information that there
are about 5,000 Russian troops in the territory of South Ossetia, and
5,000 troops in Abkhazia.
Do you think President Medvedev would support the idea of another war
with Georgia?
I do not think he would appreciate such an idea, as I saw how happy he
was when President Obama gave him half of a smile. Russia heard
clearly Obama's characterization of the August war. He called it
"invasion," and by that one word Obama drew a red line between Russia
and Georgia. Neither Putin nor Medvedev is interested in crossing it
again today.
Do you think it is possible that the Russian and American presidents
might make a deal over Georgia? How do you think U.S. politics will
affect Georgia under the new president?
The Kremlin might make an attempt to agree with Obama'say, that Russia
helps the U.S. in Afghanistan, Iran and Central Asia, and the
U.S. helps Russia to achieve their geopolitical interests in this
territory, to help Russia change leadership in this country. For many,
I seem to be a dead end for relations with Russia. I used to be much
more charmed by U.S. politics.
Who are your supporters in the U.S. today?
I have quite a few good contacts. Of course, my best friend was always
John McCain. You can say he is Georgian already. We expect McCain to
come and visit us in a week or so. I have good relationships with
Hillary Clinton, Joseph Biden and especially Richard Holbrooke'he is
my teacher. I learned a lot of great things from him.
Do you feel that the West is disappointed with you? Have you been in
touch with President Obama yet?
Oh, yes, I have talked to him on the phone. The problem is not about
us'the problem is about their own internal politics. We have
integrated into U.S. internal politics. So during the change of power,
there was some sort of vacuum in America. Nobody knew what to do with
us. Everybody, including France, was waiting for Obama's guideline on
what to do about Georgia. I admire American ideas. I used to idealize
America under Bush, when ideas were above pragmatic politics. Now it
is a new time, when pragmatic politics are in charge of ideas. That
might spoil the America I know.
Would your policy with Russia be different now if you could turn time
back?
Moscow blamed us for not keeping our promises. I am not sure what
could be done now. I could hardly do anything differently. The values
we appreciate are not embraced by Russia. Should I have compromised?
If I did, we would have been like Kyrgyzstan, losing our democratic
values now, or as poor as Armenia, whose economy fully depends on
Russia. Just as our politics have been independent from the Kremlin
all these years, we will handle the demonstrations as if the Russian
issue did not exist, and Russia as if the demonstrations did not
exist.
URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/193509