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EDWARD NALBANDYAN "OUR STRIVE IS FRANK AND RESOLUTE: ARMENIA SEEKS ESTABLISHMENT OF FULL RELATIONS WITH TURKEY WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS"
ARMENPRESS
APRIL 27, 2009
YEREVAN
Armenian Foreign Affairs Minister Edward Nalbandyan gave interview
to the director of Armenpress news agency Hrayr Zoryan.
- Mr. Minister, first of all I would like to thank You for accepting
my request for interview. Headed by You Armenia's foreign policy has
become quite active.
- I would like to point out that our foreign policy is headed by the
President of the country and I am heading the Foreign Affairs Ministry
the main mission of which is to carry out the issues forwarded by
the President of the Republic.
- Being a chairman-in-office in different international organizations
You receive numerous guests, pay different visits. One of distinguished
diplomats said if foreign minister of a country does not pay visits,
the country does not have foreign policy. The geography of Your visits
is wide, it even includes Turkey, which seems to be a new thing for us.
- I do not think that it is a new thing, because for years after
the independence of Armenia there have always been contacts between
Armenia and Turkey, various visits of high-ranked officials took place
and Armenia has always been seeking normalization of relations with
Turkey without preconditions.
- How will You assess the current round of the Armenian-Turkish
relations, especially taking into consideration the opinions that
our relations have never gone so far?
- I would say have never been so close, really because on the
initiative of the President of Armenia when the President of Turkey
Abdullah Gul was invited to visit Armenia to watch football match a
qualitatively new round launched in the process of normalization of
relations. Very important meetings took place between Armenian and
Turkish presidents, besides an important meeting took place in Davos
between Armenian President and Turkish Prime Minister, at about ten
meetings took place on the level of foreign ministers of the two
countries, and today we came to the statement made April 22 which
registers progress in negotiation process.
- There are opinions that this statement was a surprise and there
are even opinions on being deceived.
- But how can it be spoken about a surprise or about being
deceived? You know, for months the President of the country and
the foreign minister have stated many times that Armenia is seeking
establishment of full relations with Turkey, normalization of relations
with Turkey without preconditions and today with that statement we
again note that we are going towards the normalization of relations,
opening of the borders without any preconditions. In this case how
it can be spoken about being deceived.
- You say that there are no preconditions, but still different comments
and opinions are voiced from Turkey and in Armenia there are opinions
that we are making concessions.
- You know, there is such an impression as if we do not believe
ourselves, we have lack of trust towards our strength, our
opportunities, we do not believe that Armenia, really, may register
a progress, we always think that if we have reached something good
it means that a bad thing is hidden under it. That is to say, if
we have climbed the tree, we must by all means fall on a stone,
or we think that we must be cheated by all means. Who will cheat
us? If it is Turkey, first of all it will cheat itself, international
community, United States, Russia, EU. Our strive is frank and resolute:
Armenia seeks establishment of full relations with Turkey without
preconditions. I think that we have an impression that the leadership
of Turkey wishes to go forward and normalize relations between the
two countries too. - The statement was publicized April 22, on the
eve of 94th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide, which also gave
way to different comments. How will You comment on it?
- When we say normalization of relations without preconditions,
we mean that there are no preconditions connected with the Nagorno
Karabakh conflict regulation and no preconditions on recognition of
the genocide and the normalization of relations does not put under
question the fact of the genocide and the President of the country,
foreign minister have many times stated about it. You know, I hope
that when we improve, normalize our relations, not only leadership
of our country will put flowers in Tsitsernakaberd but the Turkish
leadership will join us. Why cannot we do what Charles de Gaulle
and Adenauer did? I am sure that such a day will come and Armenian
and Turkish leaderships will make that step. And when will it be
convenient to make such step if we reach that day? May be in very
April? I think there may be some symbol in it. And may be there is
a symbol in making the statement April 22.
- Nevertheless why at night of April 22?
- You mean why at night? You know in diplomacy there is neither
afternoon, nor night, nor morning, nor evening conception. In general,
negotiations have their logic, which bring to some haven, corresponding
progress about which public is being informed. I remember in France in
the process of recognition of genocide, when the law on recognition
of the genocide was being adopted in the Senate the discussions were
going on in midnight and the decision was made at 04.00 am and no
one was surprised and no one asked "why the discussions were at night
and the decision made in the morning?".
- There is an opinion that Armenia is going to the establishment of
relations with Turkey because the events which took place in Georgia
last year and the global economic crisis did not leave any other
choice to Armenia and it has to find common language with Turkey.
- You know quite well that the initiative of the President of the
Republic of Armenia was made months ago, months before what happened
in Ossetia and when Armenia's economy was registering double-digit
development just like during the previous 7-8 years. Thus, it is not
so: this decision was made with full sense that we must normalize
our relations with Turkey.
- Road map concept caused a certain confusion. What does this document
present from itself? What points, principles does it have?
- It is a very clear agreement: the road map - is a time guide for the
steps which the sides must undertake so that the achieved arrangements
enter into force and start being implemented and there are no points
and principles in that map. Points and principles will be in the
agreement or agreements which must be signed between the sides.
- How will You comment on international responses to the
Armenian-Turkish relations?
- You know, if we were living in Soviet, USSR days, we would say that
all the progressive humanity welcomes Armenia's steps. But today,
we really may say that many countries, EU, United States, Russia,
Switzerland, which was a mediator, not only welcome but assist in the
process. May be there is one country which has some restraints and
may be not small: it is Azerbaijan. This I think is a wrong approach
as normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations may have only positive
impact on our whole region and Azerbaijan is part of that region.
- How will You comment on the usage of the "Meds Yeghern" phrase by
Barack Obama in his address to the Armenian people?
- First of all I would like to say that the statement of Obama
is a step forward as compared with the statements made by other
presidents of the United States. There are very strong points
in this statement. President Obama said that he has many times
expressed his approach towards what happened in 1915 and he has not
changed his opinion. President Obama used "Meds Yeghern" phrase, we -
Armenians - use either "genocide" or "Meds Yeghern" concepts. But of
course, all Armenians were waiting from the US President to utter
the word "genocide". As far as we are speaking about the President
of the United States, I would also like to point out the important
personal assistance the US President displays for the normalization
of Armenian-Turkish relations.
- During the recent period the negotiation process within the
frameworks of the OSCE Minsk group has activated. Once in a month
the co-chairs are visiting the region: Yerevan, Stepanakert, Baku,
they also pay visits separately. Nevertheless there is an impression
as if the process stamps in the place. Do You agree with that opinion?
- Yes, the co-chairs are in Yerevan today as well, the process
continues and you know that for months Azerbaijan was refusing
to conduct negotiations on the basis of Madrid principles and
was trying to impose the resolution which was adopted by the UN
General Assembly with the suggestion of Azerbaijan. But You know
as well that the co-chairing countries voted against it and neither
of the EU countries backed the resolution and only 39 of 192 member
countries voted for it. Azerbaijan for months was trying to impose this
resolution as a basis of negotiations. Azerbaijan was speaking only
about one point: territorial integrity, military rhetoric was voiced in
Azerbaijan. During the recent period many statements have been approved
by international organizations, in different instances which correspond
to our approaches. During the recent months no resolution has been
adopted over Karabakh which would not correspond to our positions:
be it the Moscow declaration, under which are the signatures of the
President of the Republic of Armenia, President of Azerbaijan and
President of Russia: in spite of it in a few days Azerbaijan put under
question several points of the declaration. Three declarations have
been adopted in Helsinki in early December, by the 56 OSCE foreign
ministers, foreign ministers of the Minsk group co-chairing countries
and the EU. And these three statements, declarations correspond
to our positions and we fully share the opinions expressed in that
statements and support them and find that if we move according to
these documents, maybe we will have a progress. At the beginning of
the year Azerbaijan tried to make certain steps in UN, unconstructive
steps, started disseminating memorandums - four memorandums, which in
fact created another serious obstacle in the negotiation process. The
Minsk group co-chairing countries condemned that step. Today there
is a certain positive tendency in the Karabakh process as the same
president of Azerbaijan states already about the regulation of the
Karabakh issue on the basis of international right. And it is really
an important positive tendency. Three meetings have been held between
the Armenian and Azerbaijani presidents - in Saint Petersburg, Moscow
and Zurich and in near future another one will take place. We hope
that the coming meeting will be positive and constructive and will
give an opportunity to activate the negotiations, move forward and
make the positions of the conflicting parties closer.
- Different comments, analyses are voiced on Armenian-Turkish
relations, Karabakh conflict regulation process causing confusion:
I hope that our interview made many issues clear.
- I would like to say that I pay great attention to all the opinions
voiced by analysts, and I am trying to use positive suggestions and
ideas existing in the analyses. But there are also such analyses which
say - we don't know what you are doing, but what you are doing you are
doing it wrong. You do it wrong because it is not we who are doing
it, and what we would have done we will not tell you - it is like
the person says I will not enter into water until I learn swimming,
and so not learning swimming he gives advises, or makes remarks about
the dangers of drowning. The leadership of the state must have courage
to take responsibility and make important decisions and implement
them. Today the international community treats Armenia with respect. I
say with respect and not use exciting words like "they love us" or
"they do not love us": they treat us with respect and it is natural
in respect that we are a state, we have our interests, our issues,
and we are also trying to understand issues of other countries. And
we are trying by combing these interests find such solutions which
will be good for all. And first of all for us, the important thing
is that those solutions be effective and favorable for the sake of
our people and the state.
ARMENPRESS
APRIL 27, 2009
YEREVAN
Armenian Foreign Affairs Minister Edward Nalbandyan gave interview
to the director of Armenpress news agency Hrayr Zoryan.
- Mr. Minister, first of all I would like to thank You for accepting
my request for interview. Headed by You Armenia's foreign policy has
become quite active.
- I would like to point out that our foreign policy is headed by the
President of the country and I am heading the Foreign Affairs Ministry
the main mission of which is to carry out the issues forwarded by
the President of the Republic.
- Being a chairman-in-office in different international organizations
You receive numerous guests, pay different visits. One of distinguished
diplomats said if foreign minister of a country does not pay visits,
the country does not have foreign policy. The geography of Your visits
is wide, it even includes Turkey, which seems to be a new thing for us.
- I do not think that it is a new thing, because for years after
the independence of Armenia there have always been contacts between
Armenia and Turkey, various visits of high-ranked officials took place
and Armenia has always been seeking normalization of relations with
Turkey without preconditions.
- How will You assess the current round of the Armenian-Turkish
relations, especially taking into consideration the opinions that
our relations have never gone so far?
- I would say have never been so close, really because on the
initiative of the President of Armenia when the President of Turkey
Abdullah Gul was invited to visit Armenia to watch football match a
qualitatively new round launched in the process of normalization of
relations. Very important meetings took place between Armenian and
Turkish presidents, besides an important meeting took place in Davos
between Armenian President and Turkish Prime Minister, at about ten
meetings took place on the level of foreign ministers of the two
countries, and today we came to the statement made April 22 which
registers progress in negotiation process.
- There are opinions that this statement was a surprise and there
are even opinions on being deceived.
- But how can it be spoken about a surprise or about being
deceived? You know, for months the President of the country and
the foreign minister have stated many times that Armenia is seeking
establishment of full relations with Turkey, normalization of relations
with Turkey without preconditions and today with that statement we
again note that we are going towards the normalization of relations,
opening of the borders without any preconditions. In this case how
it can be spoken about being deceived.
- You say that there are no preconditions, but still different comments
and opinions are voiced from Turkey and in Armenia there are opinions
that we are making concessions.
- You know, there is such an impression as if we do not believe
ourselves, we have lack of trust towards our strength, our
opportunities, we do not believe that Armenia, really, may register
a progress, we always think that if we have reached something good
it means that a bad thing is hidden under it. That is to say, if
we have climbed the tree, we must by all means fall on a stone,
or we think that we must be cheated by all means. Who will cheat
us? If it is Turkey, first of all it will cheat itself, international
community, United States, Russia, EU. Our strive is frank and resolute:
Armenia seeks establishment of full relations with Turkey without
preconditions. I think that we have an impression that the leadership
of Turkey wishes to go forward and normalize relations between the
two countries too. - The statement was publicized April 22, on the
eve of 94th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide, which also gave
way to different comments. How will You comment on it?
- When we say normalization of relations without preconditions,
we mean that there are no preconditions connected with the Nagorno
Karabakh conflict regulation and no preconditions on recognition of
the genocide and the normalization of relations does not put under
question the fact of the genocide and the President of the country,
foreign minister have many times stated about it. You know, I hope
that when we improve, normalize our relations, not only leadership
of our country will put flowers in Tsitsernakaberd but the Turkish
leadership will join us. Why cannot we do what Charles de Gaulle
and Adenauer did? I am sure that such a day will come and Armenian
and Turkish leaderships will make that step. And when will it be
convenient to make such step if we reach that day? May be in very
April? I think there may be some symbol in it. And may be there is
a symbol in making the statement April 22.
- Nevertheless why at night of April 22?
- You mean why at night? You know in diplomacy there is neither
afternoon, nor night, nor morning, nor evening conception. In general,
negotiations have their logic, which bring to some haven, corresponding
progress about which public is being informed. I remember in France in
the process of recognition of genocide, when the law on recognition
of the genocide was being adopted in the Senate the discussions were
going on in midnight and the decision was made at 04.00 am and no
one was surprised and no one asked "why the discussions were at night
and the decision made in the morning?".
- There is an opinion that Armenia is going to the establishment of
relations with Turkey because the events which took place in Georgia
last year and the global economic crisis did not leave any other
choice to Armenia and it has to find common language with Turkey.
- You know quite well that the initiative of the President of the
Republic of Armenia was made months ago, months before what happened
in Ossetia and when Armenia's economy was registering double-digit
development just like during the previous 7-8 years. Thus, it is not
so: this decision was made with full sense that we must normalize
our relations with Turkey.
- Road map concept caused a certain confusion. What does this document
present from itself? What points, principles does it have?
- It is a very clear agreement: the road map - is a time guide for the
steps which the sides must undertake so that the achieved arrangements
enter into force and start being implemented and there are no points
and principles in that map. Points and principles will be in the
agreement or agreements which must be signed between the sides.
- How will You comment on international responses to the
Armenian-Turkish relations?
- You know, if we were living in Soviet, USSR days, we would say that
all the progressive humanity welcomes Armenia's steps. But today,
we really may say that many countries, EU, United States, Russia,
Switzerland, which was a mediator, not only welcome but assist in the
process. May be there is one country which has some restraints and
may be not small: it is Azerbaijan. This I think is a wrong approach
as normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations may have only positive
impact on our whole region and Azerbaijan is part of that region.
- How will You comment on the usage of the "Meds Yeghern" phrase by
Barack Obama in his address to the Armenian people?
- First of all I would like to say that the statement of Obama
is a step forward as compared with the statements made by other
presidents of the United States. There are very strong points
in this statement. President Obama said that he has many times
expressed his approach towards what happened in 1915 and he has not
changed his opinion. President Obama used "Meds Yeghern" phrase, we -
Armenians - use either "genocide" or "Meds Yeghern" concepts. But of
course, all Armenians were waiting from the US President to utter
the word "genocide". As far as we are speaking about the President
of the United States, I would also like to point out the important
personal assistance the US President displays for the normalization
of Armenian-Turkish relations.
- During the recent period the negotiation process within the
frameworks of the OSCE Minsk group has activated. Once in a month
the co-chairs are visiting the region: Yerevan, Stepanakert, Baku,
they also pay visits separately. Nevertheless there is an impression
as if the process stamps in the place. Do You agree with that opinion?
- Yes, the co-chairs are in Yerevan today as well, the process
continues and you know that for months Azerbaijan was refusing
to conduct negotiations on the basis of Madrid principles and
was trying to impose the resolution which was adopted by the UN
General Assembly with the suggestion of Azerbaijan. But You know
as well that the co-chairing countries voted against it and neither
of the EU countries backed the resolution and only 39 of 192 member
countries voted for it. Azerbaijan for months was trying to impose this
resolution as a basis of negotiations. Azerbaijan was speaking only
about one point: territorial integrity, military rhetoric was voiced in
Azerbaijan. During the recent period many statements have been approved
by international organizations, in different instances which correspond
to our approaches. During the recent months no resolution has been
adopted over Karabakh which would not correspond to our positions:
be it the Moscow declaration, under which are the signatures of the
President of the Republic of Armenia, President of Azerbaijan and
President of Russia: in spite of it in a few days Azerbaijan put under
question several points of the declaration. Three declarations have
been adopted in Helsinki in early December, by the 56 OSCE foreign
ministers, foreign ministers of the Minsk group co-chairing countries
and the EU. And these three statements, declarations correspond
to our positions and we fully share the opinions expressed in that
statements and support them and find that if we move according to
these documents, maybe we will have a progress. At the beginning of
the year Azerbaijan tried to make certain steps in UN, unconstructive
steps, started disseminating memorandums - four memorandums, which in
fact created another serious obstacle in the negotiation process. The
Minsk group co-chairing countries condemned that step. Today there
is a certain positive tendency in the Karabakh process as the same
president of Azerbaijan states already about the regulation of the
Karabakh issue on the basis of international right. And it is really
an important positive tendency. Three meetings have been held between
the Armenian and Azerbaijani presidents - in Saint Petersburg, Moscow
and Zurich and in near future another one will take place. We hope
that the coming meeting will be positive and constructive and will
give an opportunity to activate the negotiations, move forward and
make the positions of the conflicting parties closer.
- Different comments, analyses are voiced on Armenian-Turkish
relations, Karabakh conflict regulation process causing confusion:
I hope that our interview made many issues clear.
- I would like to say that I pay great attention to all the opinions
voiced by analysts, and I am trying to use positive suggestions and
ideas existing in the analyses. But there are also such analyses which
say - we don't know what you are doing, but what you are doing you are
doing it wrong. You do it wrong because it is not we who are doing
it, and what we would have done we will not tell you - it is like
the person says I will not enter into water until I learn swimming,
and so not learning swimming he gives advises, or makes remarks about
the dangers of drowning. The leadership of the state must have courage
to take responsibility and make important decisions and implement
them. Today the international community treats Armenia with respect. I
say with respect and not use exciting words like "they love us" or
"they do not love us": they treat us with respect and it is natural
in respect that we are a state, we have our interests, our issues,
and we are also trying to understand issues of other countries. And
we are trying by combing these interests find such solutions which
will be good for all. And first of all for us, the important thing
is that those solutions be effective and favorable for the sake of
our people and the state.