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EVEN ONE CAPTIVE IS VERY IMPORTANT
ArmInfo
2009-12-01 15:45:00
Interviewed by Mariam Levina
Interview of Head of Yerevan Delegation of the International Committee
of Red Cross (ICRC) Nadya Kebir Raoloson with ArmInfo news agency
The ICRC Delegation has been working in Armenia for almost twenty
years. How do you assess the work done over this period?
Indeed, the ICRC has been working in Armenia for 17 years, and this
is quite a big term not only for Armenia, but for other countries
as well. Like in other countries, in Armenia, too, the ICRC tailors
its work to the needs and peculiarities of the country. The work may
conditionally be divided into three categories. From the viewpoint of
durability of programmes as they date back to the beginning of the
ICRC activity in Armenia, the first category includes programmes
on dissemination and promotion of knowledge about International
Humanitarian Law. The programmes of the second category are of
similar duration and concern the cooperation with the Armenian
Red Cross Society. The third category is the so-called operational
programmes changing in the course of time. Taking into account all
these categories, I can state that the ICRC Delegation has always
been able to do its work and adjust it to the conditions and needs
of the country.
What operational programmes are being implemented at present?
First and foremost, it is the issue related to missing persons and
their families. The second part is the visits to prisoners. Earlier we
had support programmes, but in Armenia support distribution programmes
are no longer implemented as it is not needed any more. As regards the
tuberculosis programme implemented earlier, we have already completed
it. The further stages of the programme will be carried out by relevant
national authorities. But we certainly continue cooperating in this
sphere, mainly providing expert and information support.
It is well known that the ICRC prepares lists of the missing but the
Committee's methods differ from the ones applied by the national
authorities. At what stage is the work now? How much complete can
these lists be considered for the moment?
The ICRC prepares its lists of the missing on the basis of
applications submitted by the missing persons' families. This is the
main difference. According to our list, a total of 4,540 persons are
considered lost in Nagorny Karabakh action. The matter concerns three
parties: Armenia, Nagorny Karabakh and Azerbaijan. As for Armenia,
the matter is about 400 missing and in case of Nagorny Karabakh -
463 missing. I would like to say that we closely cooperate with the
Armenian, Azerbaijani and the NKR state commissions. Detailed Data
Collection programme (DDC) is vivid example of this cooperation. As
for the lists, they will be finalized by the relevant commissions
and compiled into a common list.
Would you tell about DDC in detail?
The DDC project aims to create a database on the missing. The database
will serve as key reference material for possible cases of exhumation
and identification. The matter concerns "ante mortem" information, i.e.
information about a person before his/her death or disappearance. The
programme covers many spheres, for instance, dentition, some physical
features or circumstances that may be needed.
At what stage is this project in Armenia?
Data collection has practically been completed in Armenia. This means
that we have visited almost all the families of the missing. I use
the word "almost" as there are still families outside the republic,
and we could not contact them. However, the work is underway, and we
will try to get in touch with these families. The same process is on
in Karabakh and Azerbaijan.
How, in your opinion, are the Karabakh conflict parties implementing
the agreement on repatriation of captives?
I think that such problems must be solved by the conflicting parties.
As regards the ICRC participation in the process of repatriation, our
organization usually offers its services on repatriation of prisoners
of war, internees, as well as remains. If a neutral mediator's services
are accepted, we participate in this process. We are always ready to
carry out the procedure if asked to.
The parties come out with regular statements that a captive does not
want to return to his motherland. Has the ICRC got any mechanisms
to check such statements and to get convinced that the reason the
captive confirms his desire during his meeting with ICRC officials
is not fear for himself or his relatives?
Our meetings with the captives and internees are our working meetings.
As soon as we receive a statement about capture, we visit that person.
If the problem of repatriation arises, we meet without witnesses, hold
a so-called private conversation, and make sure that this is his desire
to be repatriated. On the other hand, the relevant provision of Geneva
Conventions says that, if a person does not want to be repatriated,
his desire should be satisfied. In this aspect the possibility of
visiting these persons is brought to the forefront. We have this
opportunity in our region.
How attentive are the Armenian and Azerbaijani authorities to the
ICRC recommendations concerning treatment of the captives?
The ICRC is guided by the principle of confidentiality. Yes, we pay
visits and make recommendations, and then establish a dialogue with
relevant authorities on the basis of these recommendations. I cannot
say more without breaking the principle of confidentiality.
Earlier the Azerbaijani press published the captives' letter.
Moreover, according to mass media, these letters were received not
from the captives' relatives. Might the letters be made public via
the delegation of Baku?
This is absolutely impossible. The ICRC messages are our main
tool ensuring contact between the captives and their families. Our
organization could not provide this information to other persons. I
assure you that we make certain this information is provided
exclusively to their families. Moreover, the relevant provision of the
Geneva Conventions protects captives from public interest. Sometimes,
families agree to make the information available for public, and we
cannot prevent this.
It is noteworthy to recall the case of the former prisoner of war
Hambardzum Asatryan. According to the State Commission of Armenia,
some unknown persons, who introduced themselves as ICRC employees, were
openly persuading him not to return to his motherland and suggested
transferring him to a third country. How would you comment on this?
Unfortunately, I am unaware of the details as I was not the head of
the delegation at that time. Nevertheless, I can express confidence
that my colleagues in Baku solved this problem. We hope that nobody
will introduce himself as an ICRC employee any more.
At present there are two Azerbaijani captives in Armenia and six
Armenian captives in Azerbaijan. How often do the ICRC representatives
visit the Azerbaijani captive soldiers?
We visit them regularly. We have no obstacles to observe the necessary
procedures and, certainly, we inform the authorities of all of our
recommendations. This is very important. The principal position of
the ICRC is that the number of captives makes no difference, one
captive is no less important than a big number of captives.
The Armenian party has repeatedly asked the OSCE representatives
to urge the Azerbaijani party to establish direct contacts between
commanders and community leaders in the borderline zone. Can the ICRC
be involved in this process?
I am aware of these proposals. We cannot influence this process. But
in case the parties come to an agreement and apply to us, we are
ready to participate in the process. On my part, I can say that our
organization comes out for establishment of such contacts. This would
be fine. But I repeat that first of all we need an official request
of the parties. In this case, both we and our colleagues in Baku will
do our best to contribute to settlement of existing problems.
Azerbaijan is reported to sentence its former captives to long-term
imprisonment. This looks to be very much in tune with Stalin's approach
to capture. How would you comment on this approach?
I will not comment on this. Each country is guided by its own
legislation no matter whether such sentences are justified or not.
And in conclusion, how do you assess the level of cooperation with
the authorities?
I highly appreciate the level of cooperation. We are implementing
our work according to the procedures set in the ICRC and there is
no obstacle to that. Moreover, we have perfect relations with the
Armenian authorities. In particular, we cooperate with Armenian
Education Ministry, Defence Ministry and Foreign Ministry.
ArmInfo
2009-12-01 15:45:00
Interviewed by Mariam Levina
Interview of Head of Yerevan Delegation of the International Committee
of Red Cross (ICRC) Nadya Kebir Raoloson with ArmInfo news agency
The ICRC Delegation has been working in Armenia for almost twenty
years. How do you assess the work done over this period?
Indeed, the ICRC has been working in Armenia for 17 years, and this
is quite a big term not only for Armenia, but for other countries
as well. Like in other countries, in Armenia, too, the ICRC tailors
its work to the needs and peculiarities of the country. The work may
conditionally be divided into three categories. From the viewpoint of
durability of programmes as they date back to the beginning of the
ICRC activity in Armenia, the first category includes programmes
on dissemination and promotion of knowledge about International
Humanitarian Law. The programmes of the second category are of
similar duration and concern the cooperation with the Armenian
Red Cross Society. The third category is the so-called operational
programmes changing in the course of time. Taking into account all
these categories, I can state that the ICRC Delegation has always
been able to do its work and adjust it to the conditions and needs
of the country.
What operational programmes are being implemented at present?
First and foremost, it is the issue related to missing persons and
their families. The second part is the visits to prisoners. Earlier we
had support programmes, but in Armenia support distribution programmes
are no longer implemented as it is not needed any more. As regards the
tuberculosis programme implemented earlier, we have already completed
it. The further stages of the programme will be carried out by relevant
national authorities. But we certainly continue cooperating in this
sphere, mainly providing expert and information support.
It is well known that the ICRC prepares lists of the missing but the
Committee's methods differ from the ones applied by the national
authorities. At what stage is the work now? How much complete can
these lists be considered for the moment?
The ICRC prepares its lists of the missing on the basis of
applications submitted by the missing persons' families. This is the
main difference. According to our list, a total of 4,540 persons are
considered lost in Nagorny Karabakh action. The matter concerns three
parties: Armenia, Nagorny Karabakh and Azerbaijan. As for Armenia,
the matter is about 400 missing and in case of Nagorny Karabakh -
463 missing. I would like to say that we closely cooperate with the
Armenian, Azerbaijani and the NKR state commissions. Detailed Data
Collection programme (DDC) is vivid example of this cooperation. As
for the lists, they will be finalized by the relevant commissions
and compiled into a common list.
Would you tell about DDC in detail?
The DDC project aims to create a database on the missing. The database
will serve as key reference material for possible cases of exhumation
and identification. The matter concerns "ante mortem" information, i.e.
information about a person before his/her death or disappearance. The
programme covers many spheres, for instance, dentition, some physical
features or circumstances that may be needed.
At what stage is this project in Armenia?
Data collection has practically been completed in Armenia. This means
that we have visited almost all the families of the missing. I use
the word "almost" as there are still families outside the republic,
and we could not contact them. However, the work is underway, and we
will try to get in touch with these families. The same process is on
in Karabakh and Azerbaijan.
How, in your opinion, are the Karabakh conflict parties implementing
the agreement on repatriation of captives?
I think that such problems must be solved by the conflicting parties.
As regards the ICRC participation in the process of repatriation, our
organization usually offers its services on repatriation of prisoners
of war, internees, as well as remains. If a neutral mediator's services
are accepted, we participate in this process. We are always ready to
carry out the procedure if asked to.
The parties come out with regular statements that a captive does not
want to return to his motherland. Has the ICRC got any mechanisms
to check such statements and to get convinced that the reason the
captive confirms his desire during his meeting with ICRC officials
is not fear for himself or his relatives?
Our meetings with the captives and internees are our working meetings.
As soon as we receive a statement about capture, we visit that person.
If the problem of repatriation arises, we meet without witnesses, hold
a so-called private conversation, and make sure that this is his desire
to be repatriated. On the other hand, the relevant provision of Geneva
Conventions says that, if a person does not want to be repatriated,
his desire should be satisfied. In this aspect the possibility of
visiting these persons is brought to the forefront. We have this
opportunity in our region.
How attentive are the Armenian and Azerbaijani authorities to the
ICRC recommendations concerning treatment of the captives?
The ICRC is guided by the principle of confidentiality. Yes, we pay
visits and make recommendations, and then establish a dialogue with
relevant authorities on the basis of these recommendations. I cannot
say more without breaking the principle of confidentiality.
Earlier the Azerbaijani press published the captives' letter.
Moreover, according to mass media, these letters were received not
from the captives' relatives. Might the letters be made public via
the delegation of Baku?
This is absolutely impossible. The ICRC messages are our main
tool ensuring contact between the captives and their families. Our
organization could not provide this information to other persons. I
assure you that we make certain this information is provided
exclusively to their families. Moreover, the relevant provision of the
Geneva Conventions protects captives from public interest. Sometimes,
families agree to make the information available for public, and we
cannot prevent this.
It is noteworthy to recall the case of the former prisoner of war
Hambardzum Asatryan. According to the State Commission of Armenia,
some unknown persons, who introduced themselves as ICRC employees, were
openly persuading him not to return to his motherland and suggested
transferring him to a third country. How would you comment on this?
Unfortunately, I am unaware of the details as I was not the head of
the delegation at that time. Nevertheless, I can express confidence
that my colleagues in Baku solved this problem. We hope that nobody
will introduce himself as an ICRC employee any more.
At present there are two Azerbaijani captives in Armenia and six
Armenian captives in Azerbaijan. How often do the ICRC representatives
visit the Azerbaijani captive soldiers?
We visit them regularly. We have no obstacles to observe the necessary
procedures and, certainly, we inform the authorities of all of our
recommendations. This is very important. The principal position of
the ICRC is that the number of captives makes no difference, one
captive is no less important than a big number of captives.
The Armenian party has repeatedly asked the OSCE representatives
to urge the Azerbaijani party to establish direct contacts between
commanders and community leaders in the borderline zone. Can the ICRC
be involved in this process?
I am aware of these proposals. We cannot influence this process. But
in case the parties come to an agreement and apply to us, we are
ready to participate in the process. On my part, I can say that our
organization comes out for establishment of such contacts. This would
be fine. But I repeat that first of all we need an official request
of the parties. In this case, both we and our colleagues in Baku will
do our best to contribute to settlement of existing problems.
Azerbaijan is reported to sentence its former captives to long-term
imprisonment. This looks to be very much in tune with Stalin's approach
to capture. How would you comment on this approach?
I will not comment on this. Each country is guided by its own
legislation no matter whether such sentences are justified or not.
And in conclusion, how do you assess the level of cooperation with
the authorities?
I highly appreciate the level of cooperation. We are implementing
our work according to the procedures set in the ICRC and there is
no obstacle to that. Moreover, we have perfect relations with the
Armenian authorities. In particular, we cooperate with Armenian
Education Ministry, Defence Ministry and Foreign Ministry.