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Charlie Rose Show Transcripts
December 8, 2009 Tuesday
A CONVERSATION WITH TURKEY`S PRIME MINISTER IN WASHINGTON
[parts omitted]
CHARLIE ROSE: Some have asked me this question, and I want to ask it
of you. Why the leadership within the Islamic world, whether
religious, or especially religious, hasn`t spoken out against suicide
when the violence is often against other Muslims?
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: I am sorry to hear you say that, because it`s
not a question of a Muslim attacking a Muslim, or it`s not that if a
Muslim is attacking a Christian. It`s all the same. It should all be
condemned, because I am a Muslim, and no Muslim can tolerate the
killing of another human being, because the meaning of the word
"Islam" is "peace." The name "Islam" means "peace."
So the religion takes its strength from peace, so how could it allow
the killing of people? In our religion, the killing of one person is
like killing all humanity, it is such an important issue. And I do not
believe that any monotheistic religion would allow the killing of
people. I mean, I have never read it anywhere, I have never really
learned this -- in Islam, it is the same. It is certainly, definitely
not the case that Islam would allow the killing of people. It is
condemned.
It is God which has created us all, and God has condemned this. And
all the people who are engaged in killing condemned, no matter who
they are, where they are. When the Twin Towers were hit, I was one of
the first leaders to come out and speak against that attack. And at
that time too, we condemned those terrorists and the terror. And we
say that the terrorists do not recognize any borders, religion, race,
language. For instance, in Istanbul there is a gang, and they attacked
churches, synagogues, banks. And when those attacks took place I
visited the chief rabbi. I was the first Turkish prime minister in the
history of the Republic of Turkey to visit the chief rabbi.
I went to see our Jewish citizens who were wounded in the attack in
the hospitals. I visited them one by one. Why? Because I have a
responsibility. They are my citizens.
The fact that they are Jewish doesn`t make a difference to me. I not
consider them as being separate from the Muslims living in my nation,
in my country. I feel the same sort of responsibility to all of them,
be they Jewish, Muslim, Christian. This is what my religion requires.
And not only that -- I am the leader of a democratic, secular social
state respecting the rule of law. And it is part of my understanding,
as such, that I feel that responsibility and I would feel that
responsibility for the future too.
And I was, as you know, mayor of Istanbul. In Istanbul, there is a
place from the Ottoman times which means it`s the place for the people
in need.
And there are orphans and people who are in need, disabled, who stay -
- and people with disabilities who stay there. And it was the Ottoman
sultan who had that institution built during Ottoman Empire.
At the time, there are, of course, Jewish people and Christians too
who are in need, and they stay there as well. There is in that
facility a mosque, a synagogue, and there`s a monastery all inside the
facility.
When I became mayor of Istanbul, I saw that the buildings needed some
restoring, because there was humidity and so on. So I started talking
to religious leaders, and I asked them to help us so that we could
develop the project so that we could restore those buildings. And all
of those buildings were restored.
And we have built a new -- another building. And again, in the same
building we have the three places of worship. This is our
understanding. This is our approach.
In Van -- in the city of Van, to the east of Turkey, there is a lake
called the Van Lake, and there is an island in the lake, and there is
an Armenian church there which was in very bad condition, and we used
treasury money to restore the Armenian church. And we have always been
very supportive of these actions and activities.
CHARLIE ROSE: Speaking of the Armenian church and that, there is now
an agreement between Turkey and Armenia. What is necessary in order to
-- what more evidence does history need with respect to the genocide?
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: Let me first of all say that you say of
genocide, speak of genocide. I would be sorry to hear you say that. I
can say very clearly that we do not accept genocide. This is
completely a lie.
I invite people to prove it. I wrote a letter in 2005, and I said that
this is not up to politicians. It is up to historians to look into
this. We have opened our archives. We have all the documents there.
And in our archives more than one million documents were already
looked at. Today it`s even more than that. And we have opened the
archives of the military. And I asked the Armenian side to open their
archives and let third countries have documents. We made a call for
that too so that people could look into all of these documents and we
could all decide and see what`s going on. But it`s -- this is not
about lobbying and going to politicians and asking them to take
certain decisions. This is not really the way to go. Something like
this is really not possible, and there is no truth to it.
CHARLIE ROSE: Did President Obama bring it up with you? Has he
discussed it with you?
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: I have spoken with him, yes. Of course, this
most recent normalization process between Turkey and Armenia was
important. This was the context in which we discussed these issues.
And let me say to the normalization process. It was Turkey that
initiated the normalization process. It was Turkey that took upon
itself the risk.
We believe in ourselves. What we would like to see is for this
normalization process to go forward. And in that it`s important that
we go into that and the Karavak issue between Azerbaijan and Armenia
be resolved. There is an occupation. We have to solve that problem.
There are three countries involved -- United States, the Russian
Federation, and France. The Minsk (ph) group, why hasn`t it solved the
problem in the last 20 years? The problem has to be solved. And once
that problem is solved then that region will be a region of peace.
Why? Because once the problem between Azerbaijan and Armenia is
solved, that hatred is going to dissipate. There is the decision of
the United Nations Security Council which will be implemented. And the
problems between Turkey and Armenia will definitely be resolved. I
believe in it.
But at the moment, you have the U.S. Congress here, and the U.S.
Congress doesn`t have direct relations with our region. We are there
in that region. We have direct relations. We have direct issues. And
it`s the Turkish parliament who has to make a decision on this
agreement between Turkey and Armenia. They have to approve it.
And of course, the Turkish parliament too is very sensitive about this
issue. And if the positive developments that we would like to see do
not come about, then I do not believe that our parliament will have a
positive result as a result of its deliberations. We will have a
secret ballot, but I don`t believe that without any other positive
developments there will be a positive outcome.
December 8, 2009 Tuesday
A CONVERSATION WITH TURKEY`S PRIME MINISTER IN WASHINGTON
[parts omitted]
CHARLIE ROSE: Some have asked me this question, and I want to ask it
of you. Why the leadership within the Islamic world, whether
religious, or especially religious, hasn`t spoken out against suicide
when the violence is often against other Muslims?
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: I am sorry to hear you say that, because it`s
not a question of a Muslim attacking a Muslim, or it`s not that if a
Muslim is attacking a Christian. It`s all the same. It should all be
condemned, because I am a Muslim, and no Muslim can tolerate the
killing of another human being, because the meaning of the word
"Islam" is "peace." The name "Islam" means "peace."
So the religion takes its strength from peace, so how could it allow
the killing of people? In our religion, the killing of one person is
like killing all humanity, it is such an important issue. And I do not
believe that any monotheistic religion would allow the killing of
people. I mean, I have never read it anywhere, I have never really
learned this -- in Islam, it is the same. It is certainly, definitely
not the case that Islam would allow the killing of people. It is
condemned.
It is God which has created us all, and God has condemned this. And
all the people who are engaged in killing condemned, no matter who
they are, where they are. When the Twin Towers were hit, I was one of
the first leaders to come out and speak against that attack. And at
that time too, we condemned those terrorists and the terror. And we
say that the terrorists do not recognize any borders, religion, race,
language. For instance, in Istanbul there is a gang, and they attacked
churches, synagogues, banks. And when those attacks took place I
visited the chief rabbi. I was the first Turkish prime minister in the
history of the Republic of Turkey to visit the chief rabbi.
I went to see our Jewish citizens who were wounded in the attack in
the hospitals. I visited them one by one. Why? Because I have a
responsibility. They are my citizens.
The fact that they are Jewish doesn`t make a difference to me. I not
consider them as being separate from the Muslims living in my nation,
in my country. I feel the same sort of responsibility to all of them,
be they Jewish, Muslim, Christian. This is what my religion requires.
And not only that -- I am the leader of a democratic, secular social
state respecting the rule of law. And it is part of my understanding,
as such, that I feel that responsibility and I would feel that
responsibility for the future too.
And I was, as you know, mayor of Istanbul. In Istanbul, there is a
place from the Ottoman times which means it`s the place for the people
in need.
And there are orphans and people who are in need, disabled, who stay -
- and people with disabilities who stay there. And it was the Ottoman
sultan who had that institution built during Ottoman Empire.
At the time, there are, of course, Jewish people and Christians too
who are in need, and they stay there as well. There is in that
facility a mosque, a synagogue, and there`s a monastery all inside the
facility.
When I became mayor of Istanbul, I saw that the buildings needed some
restoring, because there was humidity and so on. So I started talking
to religious leaders, and I asked them to help us so that we could
develop the project so that we could restore those buildings. And all
of those buildings were restored.
And we have built a new -- another building. And again, in the same
building we have the three places of worship. This is our
understanding. This is our approach.
In Van -- in the city of Van, to the east of Turkey, there is a lake
called the Van Lake, and there is an island in the lake, and there is
an Armenian church there which was in very bad condition, and we used
treasury money to restore the Armenian church. And we have always been
very supportive of these actions and activities.
CHARLIE ROSE: Speaking of the Armenian church and that, there is now
an agreement between Turkey and Armenia. What is necessary in order to
-- what more evidence does history need with respect to the genocide?
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: Let me first of all say that you say of
genocide, speak of genocide. I would be sorry to hear you say that. I
can say very clearly that we do not accept genocide. This is
completely a lie.
I invite people to prove it. I wrote a letter in 2005, and I said that
this is not up to politicians. It is up to historians to look into
this. We have opened our archives. We have all the documents there.
And in our archives more than one million documents were already
looked at. Today it`s even more than that. And we have opened the
archives of the military. And I asked the Armenian side to open their
archives and let third countries have documents. We made a call for
that too so that people could look into all of these documents and we
could all decide and see what`s going on. But it`s -- this is not
about lobbying and going to politicians and asking them to take
certain decisions. This is not really the way to go. Something like
this is really not possible, and there is no truth to it.
CHARLIE ROSE: Did President Obama bring it up with you? Has he
discussed it with you?
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: I have spoken with him, yes. Of course, this
most recent normalization process between Turkey and Armenia was
important. This was the context in which we discussed these issues.
And let me say to the normalization process. It was Turkey that
initiated the normalization process. It was Turkey that took upon
itself the risk.
We believe in ourselves. What we would like to see is for this
normalization process to go forward. And in that it`s important that
we go into that and the Karavak issue between Azerbaijan and Armenia
be resolved. There is an occupation. We have to solve that problem.
There are three countries involved -- United States, the Russian
Federation, and France. The Minsk (ph) group, why hasn`t it solved the
problem in the last 20 years? The problem has to be solved. And once
that problem is solved then that region will be a region of peace.
Why? Because once the problem between Azerbaijan and Armenia is
solved, that hatred is going to dissipate. There is the decision of
the United Nations Security Council which will be implemented. And the
problems between Turkey and Armenia will definitely be resolved. I
believe in it.
But at the moment, you have the U.S. Congress here, and the U.S.
Congress doesn`t have direct relations with our region. We are there
in that region. We have direct relations. We have direct issues. And
it`s the Turkish parliament who has to make a decision on this
agreement between Turkey and Armenia. They have to approve it.
And of course, the Turkish parliament too is very sensitive about this
issue. And if the positive developments that we would like to see do
not come about, then I do not believe that our parliament will have a
positive result as a result of its deliberations. We will have a
secret ballot, but I don`t believe that without any other positive
developments there will be a positive outcome.