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Today's Zaman, Turkey
Jan 25 2009
`Ergenekon probe advancing in right direction'
Ergin Cinmen, the lawyer who organized the "One Minute of Darkness for
Light Forever" protest after the 1996 Susurluk incident, a car
accident that exposed links between the Turkish state, the criminal
underworld and security forces, has said there is no need to "take to
the streets" for justice and transparency today because there is
political power behind the ongoing investigation into the Ergenekon
criminal network.
Cinmen says it is not so surprising that there is such a polarization
in Turkish society surrounding the Ergenekon probe, which started with
the discovery of a house being used as a munitions depot in
Ä°stanbul in June 2007. He likens the issue to the fight in
Italy against Gladio, a NATO stay-behind paramilitary force left over
from the Cold War.
"Polarization happens and it can happen anywhere, because Gladio was
supported by elements within the state. All of a sudden you have a
state versus state situation; it is very difficult. There was an
arduous fight against Gladio in Italy. And we are in the middle of
that fight in Turkey, too."
Cinmen, who is also one of the lawyers representing the family of
Hrant Dink, a Turkish-Armenian journalist murdered by a
neo-nationalist teenager in January 2007, said Gladio's activities
were probably ended in Turkey following the dissolution of the Soviet
Union and the end of the Cold War, but that its structure was still
alive.
"Since the debate over the issues of secularism and Kurds has been
ongoing in Turkey, the clandestine forces must have found reasons to
stay in power," he said, adding, "So with the further investigation
into Ergenekon, we hope further tensions will be prevented and that
Turkey will produce solutions to its problems in a safer and quieter
environment."
The shadowy gang named Ergenekon is suspected of a number of political
murders, including that of a senior judge in a shooting at the Council
of State in 2006 and attempts to create an atmosphere conducive to a
military takeover against a number of governments, most recently
against the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK
Party). Academics, businessmen, mafia bosses and retired generals are
among the suspects accused of various crimes in the indictment,
submitted to a court in mid-summer last year.
Speaking to Sunday's Zaman, Cinmen elaborated on why the Ergenekon
probe has polarized Turkish society and explained what issues in the
country call for further respect for the law.
After the Susurluk affair surfaced in 1996, you organized the "One
Minute of Darkness for Light Forever" protest in order to highlight
the need to bring an end to deep state structures, but you haven't
organized any such protests recently. Why not?
The comparison between Susurluk and the Ergenekon investigation is not
apt, because after the Susurluk affair, there was no political will to
go ahead with an investigation. At the time of Susurluk, the
politicians obstructed the road to justice and that's why there was a
need for protests. Now there is political power behind the
investigation into Ergenekon and the process is continuing as lawful
as can be. The legal proceedings of this trial have been carried out
in the same fashion as other trials have been carried out before. You
don't need to take to the streets now. But there are some
misperceptions that have been created.
What are those misperceptions?
Some of the misperceptions created by certain media outlets are that a
few prosecutors have been making decisions by themselves to detain
certain people. There has been no such thing. All the actions in that
regard require a prosecutor's request and a judge's decision. The
detainees are taken to the BeÅ?iktaÅ? courthouse in
Ä°stanbul, and there are six chambers in the
BeÅ?iktaÅ? courthouse, so that means there are six judges,
three of them principals and the remaining three substitutes, and they
alternate. When a prosecutor demands a detention, there is no
guarantee that the same judge who made a decision about previous
detentions will be there. That possibility is one in 36.
There have been fears that the judiciary's independence may be in
danger, particularly following statements from such institutions as
the Judges and Prosecutors Association (YARSAV). As you know, the
YARSAV president, at a press conference, recently denounced the recent
wave of arrests in the ongoing investigation into Ergenekon. What do
you think about this?
The press conference was not good at all. First of all, most of the
YARSAV members are currently on active duty and most of them are
members of the Supreme Court of Appeals. Of course, those prosecutors
may be influenced by such statements. It was not a good use of
authority by YARSAV to hold such a press conference.
There have been rumors in the media that the meeting between Chief of
General Staff Gen. Ä°lker BaÅ?buÄ? and Prime
Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄ?an this month was connected to the
Ergenekon investigation. Since their meeting came following the
detention of a high ranking retired general and a colonel, there were
suspicions that the suspects were released as a result of that
meeting. Can such meetings cast a shadow on the investigation?
Following that meeting, seven out of nine detainees were
released. They may have deserved their release, but there have been
doubts about it because some people in the public have interpreted it
as though their release was related to the meeting. Such meetings at
critical times may call into question the decisions of judges and
prosecutors. But, as we all watch the process, the Ergenekon
operations have been continuing. There has been no halt to the
process.
`If you say Ergenekon investigation should go to the end, you are
considered an AK Party supporter'
Do you find similarities between Ergenekon and Gladio?
Ergenekon's structure is quite similar to that of Gladio and
Susurluk. Such a criminal network has to have vertical and horizontal
extensions. It has to have vertical extensions because without
economic and military powers behind it an organization cannot commit
such crimes. And that's how it was in Susurluk, too.
And some names that surfaced with the Susurluk case have re-emerged in
the Ergenekon case¦
Susurluk was the precursor to Ergenekon. Like the Ergenekon case
today, if there was political will behind the Susurluk case to handle
it properly and reach a resolution, the complicated web of relations
could have been discovered then.
Was there such polarization seen in Italy like there is now in Turkey
when Gladio was being investigated?
There was. While the prime minister was supporting the investigation,
the president wanted to end it. Polarization happens and it can happen
anywhere, because Gladio was supported by elements in the state. All
of a sudden you have a state versus state situation; it is very
difficult. There was an arduous fight against the Gladio formation in
Italy. And we are in the middle of that fight in Turkey, too. But in
Turkey we have a legal case and there are other fights going on.
What are those fights about?
If you defend the idea that the Ergenekon investigation should be
carried out to the end, you are considered an AK Party supporter. If
you defend the opposite, then you are considered from the "other"
side. This happens only in immature democracies. Sometimes politicians
or irresponsible approaches in the media feed into those ideas. For
example, it is not right for an opposition party leader to say that he
is the "attorney" of the Ergenekon detainees and, on the other hand,
the prime minister says he is the prosecutor of the Ergenekon
case. These are wrong, unwise statements as well. Such statements
contribute to the polarization of the society.
The Gladio formation ended with the dissolution of the Soviet
Union. Has Ergenekon emerged from within Gladio?
The recent discovery of guns and ammunition shows that they were
buried underground starting in 1999 and the year 2000. There was no
Soviet Union in existence at the time. There was the Kurdish problem
and there was the debate about the issue of secularism. Some
clandestine forces seem to be organized both to save their power and
overthrow the government. Gladio's activities were ended, but its
structure apparently was not abolished. Since the debate over the
issues of secularism and Kurds has been ongoing in Turkey, the
clandestine forces must have found reasons to stay in power.
So the Kurdish problem and the problems around secularism can be
solved if the Ergenekon network is untangled?
Yes, those problems can be solved if the Ergenekon network can be
unraveled. The Ergenekon indictment has revealed, for example, that
there were assassination plans against some top personalities,
including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄ?an. If this plan was
carried out, the secularism debate would have seen further
polarization. Again, any provocations regarding the Kurdish issue
would have created serious tensions in society. So with the further
investigation into Ergenekon, we hope further tensions will be
prevented and Turkey will produce solutions to its problems in a safer
and quieter environment. We should hail the Ergenekon
investigation. But there are areas that call for further respect for
law.
Could you give some examples?
For example, everyone charged with a criminal offense has the right to
be presumed innocent until proven guilty by law. Another example is
that the authorities should not make house or office searches by
informing the media beforehand. Every accusation in the indictment
should be supported by evidence, and the indictment has some
weaknesses in that regard. If such measures are not stressed, there
will be suspicions in society regarding the intentions of the
government. For example, some people can argue that the government
wants to eliminate its adversaries by using the investigation into
Ergenekon.
Some critics also say that the Ergenekon case will never be concluded,
that there will never be an end to it. Do you think this is a
possibility?
It will last as long as necessary. There have been some precautions
taken to make the Ergenekon trial progress as quickly as possible. For
example, a specific courthouse has been dedicated to the trial of
Ergenekon suspects and it does not handle any other cases. In
addition, court proceedings have been recorded and deciphered later
for written records as opposed to the classical method of simultaneous
typing, which would be time consuming. The investigation may be
lengthy, but the important thing is to prepare indictments and open
new cases quickly following the new detentions. There are some points
that need to be criticized in the Ergenekon investigation, but overall
the charges are serious and the process is beneficial for Turkey.
`Coup diaries are a core issue and should be fully investigated' What
would you say about the allegations put forward by a newsweekly in
2007 accusing former military commanders of plotting coups and its
relation to Ergenekon?
This is the core issue. The Ergenekon prosecutors have asked the
editor of the newsweekly [Alper GörmüÅ?] to submit
what he has about the coup diaries and he did it. And I suppose the
prosecutors have submitted the evidence to the military prosecutors,
but we don't know any more than this. Indeed, the Ergenekon
investigation will make sense only together with the further
investigation into the coup diaries.
Why?
Because apparently military commanders discussed attempting a military
intervention at the time and then they gave up. In order to end the
repetition of such activities in Turkey, these structures should be
fully and legally investigated.
Do you think the Turkish military supports the Ergenekon
investigation?
The Turkish military is currently allowing such operations to be
conducted and even to probe its own people. There is a simple reason
for that. The way to conduct coups in Turkey has changed since the May
27, 1960 military intervention. The coup of 1960 was staged by a group
of Turkish army officers who acted independently of the chain of
command. The military was disturbed by this development. As a matter
of fact, two coups in 1971 and 1980 were conducted within the limits
of the military hierarchy. So the military takes any other
interventions planned or done without respecting its hierarchy system
as a threat against itself. That means if a military intervention is
planned, it should be done by the chief of general staff in agreement
with the other military commanders. And what we have seen in the coup
diaries is that some people outside the military chain of command were
planning to create an environment to prepare for a coup. The coup
diaries showed that the coup planners sought a consensus at the upper
level for the execution of the coup plans but they could not find the
necessary support. If we look at the scope of the Ergenekon
investigation, the illegal activities of those without the control of
the state are put on trial.
Could you explain that idea through the example of retired
Brig. Gen. Veli Küçük?
Veli Küçük was under control in the Susurluk
process. But after that he broke loose. For example, he went ahead and
demanded to be an intervening party on the side of the suspects in the
case against the suspected murderers of Hrant Dink. This must have
created uneasiness in the military.
25 January 2009, Sunday YONCA POYRAZ DOÄ?AN Ä°STANBUL
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz -web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165021&bo lum=8
Jan 25 2009
`Ergenekon probe advancing in right direction'
Ergin Cinmen, the lawyer who organized the "One Minute of Darkness for
Light Forever" protest after the 1996 Susurluk incident, a car
accident that exposed links between the Turkish state, the criminal
underworld and security forces, has said there is no need to "take to
the streets" for justice and transparency today because there is
political power behind the ongoing investigation into the Ergenekon
criminal network.
Cinmen says it is not so surprising that there is such a polarization
in Turkish society surrounding the Ergenekon probe, which started with
the discovery of a house being used as a munitions depot in
Ä°stanbul in June 2007. He likens the issue to the fight in
Italy against Gladio, a NATO stay-behind paramilitary force left over
from the Cold War.
"Polarization happens and it can happen anywhere, because Gladio was
supported by elements within the state. All of a sudden you have a
state versus state situation; it is very difficult. There was an
arduous fight against Gladio in Italy. And we are in the middle of
that fight in Turkey, too."
Cinmen, who is also one of the lawyers representing the family of
Hrant Dink, a Turkish-Armenian journalist murdered by a
neo-nationalist teenager in January 2007, said Gladio's activities
were probably ended in Turkey following the dissolution of the Soviet
Union and the end of the Cold War, but that its structure was still
alive.
"Since the debate over the issues of secularism and Kurds has been
ongoing in Turkey, the clandestine forces must have found reasons to
stay in power," he said, adding, "So with the further investigation
into Ergenekon, we hope further tensions will be prevented and that
Turkey will produce solutions to its problems in a safer and quieter
environment."
The shadowy gang named Ergenekon is suspected of a number of political
murders, including that of a senior judge in a shooting at the Council
of State in 2006 and attempts to create an atmosphere conducive to a
military takeover against a number of governments, most recently
against the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK
Party). Academics, businessmen, mafia bosses and retired generals are
among the suspects accused of various crimes in the indictment,
submitted to a court in mid-summer last year.
Speaking to Sunday's Zaman, Cinmen elaborated on why the Ergenekon
probe has polarized Turkish society and explained what issues in the
country call for further respect for the law.
After the Susurluk affair surfaced in 1996, you organized the "One
Minute of Darkness for Light Forever" protest in order to highlight
the need to bring an end to deep state structures, but you haven't
organized any such protests recently. Why not?
The comparison between Susurluk and the Ergenekon investigation is not
apt, because after the Susurluk affair, there was no political will to
go ahead with an investigation. At the time of Susurluk, the
politicians obstructed the road to justice and that's why there was a
need for protests. Now there is political power behind the
investigation into Ergenekon and the process is continuing as lawful
as can be. The legal proceedings of this trial have been carried out
in the same fashion as other trials have been carried out before. You
don't need to take to the streets now. But there are some
misperceptions that have been created.
What are those misperceptions?
Some of the misperceptions created by certain media outlets are that a
few prosecutors have been making decisions by themselves to detain
certain people. There has been no such thing. All the actions in that
regard require a prosecutor's request and a judge's decision. The
detainees are taken to the BeÅ?iktaÅ? courthouse in
Ä°stanbul, and there are six chambers in the
BeÅ?iktaÅ? courthouse, so that means there are six judges,
three of them principals and the remaining three substitutes, and they
alternate. When a prosecutor demands a detention, there is no
guarantee that the same judge who made a decision about previous
detentions will be there. That possibility is one in 36.
There have been fears that the judiciary's independence may be in
danger, particularly following statements from such institutions as
the Judges and Prosecutors Association (YARSAV). As you know, the
YARSAV president, at a press conference, recently denounced the recent
wave of arrests in the ongoing investigation into Ergenekon. What do
you think about this?
The press conference was not good at all. First of all, most of the
YARSAV members are currently on active duty and most of them are
members of the Supreme Court of Appeals. Of course, those prosecutors
may be influenced by such statements. It was not a good use of
authority by YARSAV to hold such a press conference.
There have been rumors in the media that the meeting between Chief of
General Staff Gen. Ä°lker BaÅ?buÄ? and Prime
Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄ?an this month was connected to the
Ergenekon investigation. Since their meeting came following the
detention of a high ranking retired general and a colonel, there were
suspicions that the suspects were released as a result of that
meeting. Can such meetings cast a shadow on the investigation?
Following that meeting, seven out of nine detainees were
released. They may have deserved their release, but there have been
doubts about it because some people in the public have interpreted it
as though their release was related to the meeting. Such meetings at
critical times may call into question the decisions of judges and
prosecutors. But, as we all watch the process, the Ergenekon
operations have been continuing. There has been no halt to the
process.
`If you say Ergenekon investigation should go to the end, you are
considered an AK Party supporter'
Do you find similarities between Ergenekon and Gladio?
Ergenekon's structure is quite similar to that of Gladio and
Susurluk. Such a criminal network has to have vertical and horizontal
extensions. It has to have vertical extensions because without
economic and military powers behind it an organization cannot commit
such crimes. And that's how it was in Susurluk, too.
And some names that surfaced with the Susurluk case have re-emerged in
the Ergenekon case¦
Susurluk was the precursor to Ergenekon. Like the Ergenekon case
today, if there was political will behind the Susurluk case to handle
it properly and reach a resolution, the complicated web of relations
could have been discovered then.
Was there such polarization seen in Italy like there is now in Turkey
when Gladio was being investigated?
There was. While the prime minister was supporting the investigation,
the president wanted to end it. Polarization happens and it can happen
anywhere, because Gladio was supported by elements in the state. All
of a sudden you have a state versus state situation; it is very
difficult. There was an arduous fight against the Gladio formation in
Italy. And we are in the middle of that fight in Turkey, too. But in
Turkey we have a legal case and there are other fights going on.
What are those fights about?
If you defend the idea that the Ergenekon investigation should be
carried out to the end, you are considered an AK Party supporter. If
you defend the opposite, then you are considered from the "other"
side. This happens only in immature democracies. Sometimes politicians
or irresponsible approaches in the media feed into those ideas. For
example, it is not right for an opposition party leader to say that he
is the "attorney" of the Ergenekon detainees and, on the other hand,
the prime minister says he is the prosecutor of the Ergenekon
case. These are wrong, unwise statements as well. Such statements
contribute to the polarization of the society.
The Gladio formation ended with the dissolution of the Soviet
Union. Has Ergenekon emerged from within Gladio?
The recent discovery of guns and ammunition shows that they were
buried underground starting in 1999 and the year 2000. There was no
Soviet Union in existence at the time. There was the Kurdish problem
and there was the debate about the issue of secularism. Some
clandestine forces seem to be organized both to save their power and
overthrow the government. Gladio's activities were ended, but its
structure apparently was not abolished. Since the debate over the
issues of secularism and Kurds has been ongoing in Turkey, the
clandestine forces must have found reasons to stay in power.
So the Kurdish problem and the problems around secularism can be
solved if the Ergenekon network is untangled?
Yes, those problems can be solved if the Ergenekon network can be
unraveled. The Ergenekon indictment has revealed, for example, that
there were assassination plans against some top personalities,
including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄ?an. If this plan was
carried out, the secularism debate would have seen further
polarization. Again, any provocations regarding the Kurdish issue
would have created serious tensions in society. So with the further
investigation into Ergenekon, we hope further tensions will be
prevented and Turkey will produce solutions to its problems in a safer
and quieter environment. We should hail the Ergenekon
investigation. But there are areas that call for further respect for
law.
Could you give some examples?
For example, everyone charged with a criminal offense has the right to
be presumed innocent until proven guilty by law. Another example is
that the authorities should not make house or office searches by
informing the media beforehand. Every accusation in the indictment
should be supported by evidence, and the indictment has some
weaknesses in that regard. If such measures are not stressed, there
will be suspicions in society regarding the intentions of the
government. For example, some people can argue that the government
wants to eliminate its adversaries by using the investigation into
Ergenekon.
Some critics also say that the Ergenekon case will never be concluded,
that there will never be an end to it. Do you think this is a
possibility?
It will last as long as necessary. There have been some precautions
taken to make the Ergenekon trial progress as quickly as possible. For
example, a specific courthouse has been dedicated to the trial of
Ergenekon suspects and it does not handle any other cases. In
addition, court proceedings have been recorded and deciphered later
for written records as opposed to the classical method of simultaneous
typing, which would be time consuming. The investigation may be
lengthy, but the important thing is to prepare indictments and open
new cases quickly following the new detentions. There are some points
that need to be criticized in the Ergenekon investigation, but overall
the charges are serious and the process is beneficial for Turkey.
`Coup diaries are a core issue and should be fully investigated' What
would you say about the allegations put forward by a newsweekly in
2007 accusing former military commanders of plotting coups and its
relation to Ergenekon?
This is the core issue. The Ergenekon prosecutors have asked the
editor of the newsweekly [Alper GörmüÅ?] to submit
what he has about the coup diaries and he did it. And I suppose the
prosecutors have submitted the evidence to the military prosecutors,
but we don't know any more than this. Indeed, the Ergenekon
investigation will make sense only together with the further
investigation into the coup diaries.
Why?
Because apparently military commanders discussed attempting a military
intervention at the time and then they gave up. In order to end the
repetition of such activities in Turkey, these structures should be
fully and legally investigated.
Do you think the Turkish military supports the Ergenekon
investigation?
The Turkish military is currently allowing such operations to be
conducted and even to probe its own people. There is a simple reason
for that. The way to conduct coups in Turkey has changed since the May
27, 1960 military intervention. The coup of 1960 was staged by a group
of Turkish army officers who acted independently of the chain of
command. The military was disturbed by this development. As a matter
of fact, two coups in 1971 and 1980 were conducted within the limits
of the military hierarchy. So the military takes any other
interventions planned or done without respecting its hierarchy system
as a threat against itself. That means if a military intervention is
planned, it should be done by the chief of general staff in agreement
with the other military commanders. And what we have seen in the coup
diaries is that some people outside the military chain of command were
planning to create an environment to prepare for a coup. The coup
diaries showed that the coup planners sought a consensus at the upper
level for the execution of the coup plans but they could not find the
necessary support. If we look at the scope of the Ergenekon
investigation, the illegal activities of those without the control of
the state are put on trial.
Could you explain that idea through the example of retired
Brig. Gen. Veli Küçük?
Veli Küçük was under control in the Susurluk
process. But after that he broke loose. For example, he went ahead and
demanded to be an intervening party on the side of the suspects in the
case against the suspected murderers of Hrant Dink. This must have
created uneasiness in the military.
25 January 2009, Sunday YONCA POYRAZ DOÄ?AN Ä°STANBUL
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz -web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165021&bo lum=8