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ARMENIAN DEPUTY MINISTER SAYS AZERI AUTHORITIES "MISLEADING" PUBLIC ON KARABAKH
Public Television of Armenia
July 13 2009
[Presenter] We invited Deputy Foreign Minister Shavarsh Kocharyan
today to Haylur studio in order to hear his interpretation of the
Obama-Sarkozy-Medvedev statement, and receive answers on matters
that worry our public. Mr Kocharyan, what is your assessment of the
statement by the leaders of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chair countries,
on the publicized provisions and topics of the negotiations?
[Kocharyan] You very correctly drew a distinction between the two
documents: a statement by the leaders of the three co-chair countries,
and another one which contains the basic principles on which the
negotiations are being held - the one which has been posted on
websites. Of course, this is not a complete list of issues on the
negotiating table. As for the statement, it is obvious that the
leaders of such powerful states would make a joint statement. This
is aimed at giving a new boost to the negotiation process on an issue
that has failed reach its logical conclusion for years.
Secondly, as for the provisions around which the negotiations are
being held, this shows what kind of achievement the sides have made in
this long negotiation process. Of course, the co-chairs specifically
mentioned comprehensiveness in reaching consent. This does not mean
that some provisions can be applied separately. The three principal
approaches of the Armenian side, around which we are working and on
which we will continue working, are expressed here. The first one is
the status of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic.
Only the population of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic [NKR] should
decide its fate through a referendum, and its results should be
binding. Before this referendum is held, it should be given an interim
status, by which the Nagornyy Karabakh republic will, to a certain
extent, be recognized as an international entity.
The next one is a reliable territorial route between the Nagornyy
Karabakh republic and the Republic of Armenia. And finally,
an extremely important provision: an internationally established
multi-layer system, which will ensure the security of the population
of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic.
These are the three basic principles we have always striven for. In
fact, the negotiations still continue. This does not mean at all that
that document which has yet to be signed has been published. There
is still serious work, and very serious approaches and very hard work
is required to make all those provisions precise.
[Presenter] A meeting of the Armenian and Azerbaijani presidents
will be held at the end of this week [17 July] in Moscow. What are
the expectations from this meeting between Sargsyan and Aliyev?
[Kocharyan] You know, on the one hand, this is just another meeting. On
the other, this is a meeting that is held after that the statement
[by the leaders of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chair countries]. From this
point of view, one should not have very exaggerated notions as often
happens and then to say - oh, you know... In reality, clarification -
negotiations - around a few provisions will be held. That is not to
expect that issues will be resolved immediately after the statement
of the three co-chair countries. It is not like that. I can even say
it is unfortunately not like that because the approaches of the sides
are still different in many issues.
[Presenter] Mr Kocharyan, you came back from [the NKR capital]
Stepanakert, where you took part in a forum on Armenian-Turkish
relations and the Karabakh settlement, organized by the Armenian
Revolutionary Federation-Dashnaktsutyun. With what impressions did
you come back, and how would you assess the results of that forum?
[Passage omitted: Kocharyan says that the forum discussed
two main issues: Armenian-Turkish relations and the Karabakh
settlement. Kocharyan speaks about Dashnaktsutyun's role in the
Karabakh war.]
I believe that Dashnaktsutyun's approach is very logical, and also,
that it organized the forum. A resolution was approved [at the
forum]. Of course, it does not always coincide with our official points
of view and approaches, but whatever case, I assess it as positive.
[Presenter] Mr Kocharyan, there has been a lot of talk about the need
for Artsakh's [Karabakh] participation in the negotiations. What is
being done in this direction? What is being done in order to ensure
the participation of the Artsakh side?
[Kocharyan] This has always varied; the approach of the Armenian side
is that the two Armenian sides take part in the negotiations, and
in the first place, the Nagornyy Karabakh republic itself. It is not
accidental, if we view the so-called already published principles, we
will see that all there refer to the Nagornyy Karabakh republic itself,
and a question arises here, and there is often criticism as to why
the co-chairs, addressing the Armenian and Azerbaijani presidents, do
not address the president of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic. You know,
addressing it would mean recognizing the Nagornyy Karabakh republic.
[Passage omitted: Kocharyan says the statement by the US, French and
Russian leaders may help Nagornyy Karabakh's in its bid to participate
in the talks]
[Presenter] Mr Kocharyan, the last question - we have already seen
some elements of hysteria rising in Azerbaijan. How would you view
the fact that the Azerbaijani society itself may not be ready for
progress in the settlement?
[Kocharyan] You know, if we pay attention to the already published
provisions and to the statements the Armenian authorities have made
over these years, you will see no contradiction between them. What
we have consistently said - the status, security guarantees and a
reliable territorial route - all these are available.
Now, let's see what Azerbaijan has said. What it has said and what
has been published are, essentially, contradictory. Just recently, the
Azerbaijani president and foreign minister said: "Only we will decide
the status of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic, this is our territory."
So, what happened? Their panic is connected with the fact that
the Azerbaijani government was misleading its own public about the
reality of the negotiations, about the topic on the negotiations
table. Moreover, you remember that for about a year, it denied the
existence of the Madrid principles, around which it had agreed to
hold negotiations.
That's why they have found themselves in a very difficult
position. They also realize the following: the document that exists,
in essence, means that Azerbaijan is being obliged to accept something
that has become a reality a long time ago.
What is this circumstance? It is that the Nagornyy Karabakh republic
in fact has no connection with Azerbaijan. It is independent, it
is sovereign, and the provisions [words indistinct] Azerbaijan is
accepting in an obliged way that it has no more authority over the
Nagornyy Karabakh republic. This refers both to the final status,
which will be decided by the people of Nagornyy Karabakh republic in
a referendum, and the interim [status].
Moreover, if they have hope, the only hope is that the people of the
NKR may express a wish to be part of Azerbaijan.
First of all, let me state a few things. First, the vote will be held
with the ratio of Armenians and Azerbaijanis that existed in 1988. And
this was 75-80 per cent Armenians and the rest - Azerbaijanis. This
is the first, and extremely important one.
The next one: The issue that the Azerbaijanis who resided in Karabakh
should return, and only then a referendum can be held is not on the
negotiation table at all. The foreign minister has said very clearly
recently that there is no issue of return until the settlement
takes place. That is, it is understandable what the word is about,
that is, distortions made again by the Azerbaijani authorities. Two
communities, contradiction, conflict - all this was again aimed at
misleading their own people.
Public Television of Armenia
July 13 2009
[Presenter] We invited Deputy Foreign Minister Shavarsh Kocharyan
today to Haylur studio in order to hear his interpretation of the
Obama-Sarkozy-Medvedev statement, and receive answers on matters
that worry our public. Mr Kocharyan, what is your assessment of the
statement by the leaders of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chair countries,
on the publicized provisions and topics of the negotiations?
[Kocharyan] You very correctly drew a distinction between the two
documents: a statement by the leaders of the three co-chair countries,
and another one which contains the basic principles on which the
negotiations are being held - the one which has been posted on
websites. Of course, this is not a complete list of issues on the
negotiating table. As for the statement, it is obvious that the
leaders of such powerful states would make a joint statement. This
is aimed at giving a new boost to the negotiation process on an issue
that has failed reach its logical conclusion for years.
Secondly, as for the provisions around which the negotiations are
being held, this shows what kind of achievement the sides have made in
this long negotiation process. Of course, the co-chairs specifically
mentioned comprehensiveness in reaching consent. This does not mean
that some provisions can be applied separately. The three principal
approaches of the Armenian side, around which we are working and on
which we will continue working, are expressed here. The first one is
the status of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic.
Only the population of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic [NKR] should
decide its fate through a referendum, and its results should be
binding. Before this referendum is held, it should be given an interim
status, by which the Nagornyy Karabakh republic will, to a certain
extent, be recognized as an international entity.
The next one is a reliable territorial route between the Nagornyy
Karabakh republic and the Republic of Armenia. And finally,
an extremely important provision: an internationally established
multi-layer system, which will ensure the security of the population
of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic.
These are the three basic principles we have always striven for. In
fact, the negotiations still continue. This does not mean at all that
that document which has yet to be signed has been published. There
is still serious work, and very serious approaches and very hard work
is required to make all those provisions precise.
[Presenter] A meeting of the Armenian and Azerbaijani presidents
will be held at the end of this week [17 July] in Moscow. What are
the expectations from this meeting between Sargsyan and Aliyev?
[Kocharyan] You know, on the one hand, this is just another meeting. On
the other, this is a meeting that is held after that the statement
[by the leaders of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chair countries]. From this
point of view, one should not have very exaggerated notions as often
happens and then to say - oh, you know... In reality, clarification -
negotiations - around a few provisions will be held. That is not to
expect that issues will be resolved immediately after the statement
of the three co-chair countries. It is not like that. I can even say
it is unfortunately not like that because the approaches of the sides
are still different in many issues.
[Presenter] Mr Kocharyan, you came back from [the NKR capital]
Stepanakert, where you took part in a forum on Armenian-Turkish
relations and the Karabakh settlement, organized by the Armenian
Revolutionary Federation-Dashnaktsutyun. With what impressions did
you come back, and how would you assess the results of that forum?
[Passage omitted: Kocharyan says that the forum discussed
two main issues: Armenian-Turkish relations and the Karabakh
settlement. Kocharyan speaks about Dashnaktsutyun's role in the
Karabakh war.]
I believe that Dashnaktsutyun's approach is very logical, and also,
that it organized the forum. A resolution was approved [at the
forum]. Of course, it does not always coincide with our official points
of view and approaches, but whatever case, I assess it as positive.
[Presenter] Mr Kocharyan, there has been a lot of talk about the need
for Artsakh's [Karabakh] participation in the negotiations. What is
being done in this direction? What is being done in order to ensure
the participation of the Artsakh side?
[Kocharyan] This has always varied; the approach of the Armenian side
is that the two Armenian sides take part in the negotiations, and
in the first place, the Nagornyy Karabakh republic itself. It is not
accidental, if we view the so-called already published principles, we
will see that all there refer to the Nagornyy Karabakh republic itself,
and a question arises here, and there is often criticism as to why
the co-chairs, addressing the Armenian and Azerbaijani presidents, do
not address the president of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic. You know,
addressing it would mean recognizing the Nagornyy Karabakh republic.
[Passage omitted: Kocharyan says the statement by the US, French and
Russian leaders may help Nagornyy Karabakh's in its bid to participate
in the talks]
[Presenter] Mr Kocharyan, the last question - we have already seen
some elements of hysteria rising in Azerbaijan. How would you view
the fact that the Azerbaijani society itself may not be ready for
progress in the settlement?
[Kocharyan] You know, if we pay attention to the already published
provisions and to the statements the Armenian authorities have made
over these years, you will see no contradiction between them. What
we have consistently said - the status, security guarantees and a
reliable territorial route - all these are available.
Now, let's see what Azerbaijan has said. What it has said and what
has been published are, essentially, contradictory. Just recently, the
Azerbaijani president and foreign minister said: "Only we will decide
the status of the Nagornyy Karabakh republic, this is our territory."
So, what happened? Their panic is connected with the fact that
the Azerbaijani government was misleading its own public about the
reality of the negotiations, about the topic on the negotiations
table. Moreover, you remember that for about a year, it denied the
existence of the Madrid principles, around which it had agreed to
hold negotiations.
That's why they have found themselves in a very difficult
position. They also realize the following: the document that exists,
in essence, means that Azerbaijan is being obliged to accept something
that has become a reality a long time ago.
What is this circumstance? It is that the Nagornyy Karabakh republic
in fact has no connection with Azerbaijan. It is independent, it
is sovereign, and the provisions [words indistinct] Azerbaijan is
accepting in an obliged way that it has no more authority over the
Nagornyy Karabakh republic. This refers both to the final status,
which will be decided by the people of Nagornyy Karabakh republic in
a referendum, and the interim [status].
Moreover, if they have hope, the only hope is that the people of the
NKR may express a wish to be part of Azerbaijan.
First of all, let me state a few things. First, the vote will be held
with the ratio of Armenians and Azerbaijanis that existed in 1988. And
this was 75-80 per cent Armenians and the rest - Azerbaijanis. This
is the first, and extremely important one.
The next one: The issue that the Azerbaijanis who resided in Karabakh
should return, and only then a referendum can be held is not on the
negotiation table at all. The foreign minister has said very clearly
recently that there is no issue of return until the settlement
takes place. That is, it is understandable what the word is about,
that is, distortions made again by the Azerbaijani authorities. Two
communities, contradiction, conflict - all this was again aimed at
misleading their own people.