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PRIME MINISTER ARA HARUTIUNIAN SPEAKS OF KARABAKH'S GROWING ECONOMY, AND OPPOSES RETREAT ON NATIONAL ISSUES
Emil Sanamyan
"Noravank" Foundation
23 November 2009
Ara Harutiunian discusses policy and politics
STEPANAKERT, NAGORNO-KARABAKH - Prime Minister Ara Harutiunian and
other Nagorno-Karabakh officials arrived in the United States this
week ahead of the annual Thanksgiving telethon organized by the
Hayastan All-Armenian Fund. On November 5, Washington editor Emil
Sanamyan spoke with Mr. Harutiunian in his office in Stepanakert. A
translation of that conversation follows. (Mr. Harutiunian's bio
appears at the end of this interview.)
Emil Sanamyan: Mr. Prime Minister, earlier this week you made a
number of statements rejecting the territorial concessions envisioned
under what is known as the Madrid proposal for a Karabakh settlement,
unveiled by France, Russia, and the United States in July. At the time
the NKR Foreign Ministry broadly criticized the proposal, but your
comments were more specific. Could you elaborate on NKR's position
with regard to that proposal?
Ara Harutiunian: The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic has not been formally
presented with the Madrid proposal. We have seen the statement and
media commentary, but as long as we are not formally presented with
a proposal, we cannot officially accept or reject it.
That said, we have a position repeatedly articulated by our president
and other officials, a position that the international community
needs to appreciate.
First, the people of Artsakh have already exercised their right to
self-determination.
Second, in a popular referendum, we adopted our constitution, which
specifies that Artsakh's territory is its present-day territory
comprising 11,400 sq km (4,400 sq mi), and it is not the territory
of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast.
Of course, we support the negotiation process and understand
that negotiations imply mutual compromises. But in the end, the
negotiations can produce results only when Artsakh authorities become
involved. Without our full participation, there will be no results.
Protocols ES: Another issue generating a lot of debate is the terms
of the Armenia-Turkey protocols signed on October 10. The Armenian
government has invested a lot of effort into that diplomatic initiative
and there has also been a lot of criticism of the protocols both in
Armenia and the diaspora. What is your view of that process?
AH: Generally we would welcome any step that contributes to
Armenia's economic development. But such a step should not come with
preconditions or disregard our national dignity and identity.
The future of our country depends on economic development. Armenians
are business savvy, and if they don't have opportunities in the
homeland, they will find them elsewhere; emigration leads to
demographic problems.
It is obvious that a Turkey-Armenia border opening would create new
opportunities for development. Those who argue that [Turkish imports]
would damage our economy are not correct. The same argument, after all,
could be made against countries we have open borders with, Georgia and
Iran. But that is not the case, and reflects a backward-looking policy.
Border opening with Turkey is important economically, but once again
it should come without preconditions, without historical revisionism,
and without a link to Artsakh negotiations.
If any one of these conditions is not met, we will be opposed and will
find the signing of these documents to be senseless. But as far as I
know, the president of the Republic of Armenia, in all his statements,
has ruled out any compromises on these issues.
I would stress once again that a solution to the Artsakh issue depends
on Artsakh itself. Any deals reached contrary to the will of Artsakh
people will remain on paper.
You will recall this is what happened when former Armenian President
Levon Ter-Petrosian agreed to the return of Kelbajar [after its capture
in April 1993]. Those efforts were in vain. Moreover, our army was able
to liberate Tigranakert, Kovsakan, and other areas [later in 1993].
Confident about security ES: As prime minister you deal mostly
with economic issues, but economics and security are quite
interconnected. Azerbaijan is continuing to arm itself and has
repeatedly expressed aggressive intentions. But there is little
Armenian criticism of this militarization and there is virtually no
criticism of countries selling weapons to Azerbaijan. Why not?
AH: We of course do not welcome Azerbaijan's policy that allocates
so much money for its armed forces and weapons purchases, but there
is also little we can do to influence this process.
Instead, we do what we can to make Azerbaijan think twice before
launching hostilities. We have an efficient defense system that is
not limited to today's standing army. Every citizen of Artsakh is a
[reservist] soldier and will defend his motherland the way we did in
the early 1990s.
Additionally, it is important to note that, say, the price of a
modern tank is in millions of dollars, while antitank weapons cost
only several thousand. We are not preparing for an aggression; we are
preparing for defense [so our costs are lower]. However, we also have
serious counterattack capabilities.
Each year, we implement large-scale programs aimed at increasing
capabilities of our army, and strengthening our defense perimeter.
Azerbaijan can make the calculations and knows that the Artsakh Army
will remain a guarantor of regional peace and stability for a long
time. We have made it clear that a new war would be very damaging for
Azerbaijan not just in human and financial terms, but also through
loss of territory.
We are confident about our capabilities and ready to confront any
aggressor.
Growing the diaspora-homeland link ES: Earlier today I visited the
Artsakh History Museum where a guide showed me a picture of your
older brother who was killed in the war.
This subject of war of course remains very close to everyone in
Artsakh.
But for many others, including in the diaspora, the war has become
a relatively distant memory and the sense of danger to Artsakh,
to Armenians, has largely passed. Why is Artsakh still important?
AH: It must be harder to maintain the attachment to your motherland
when you live far from it rather than when you live here. From far
you miss it, but nostalgia alone can be exhausted over the years.
To preserve this attachment to Armenia, to Artsakh, we encourage
diaspora Armenians to visit the motherland more often. Once you
visit and experience Artsakh, you will fall in love with Artsakh,
live Artsakh. Our policy now is to promote such visits.
In part for this purpose, we are now constructing an airport,
improving roads, improving the access to our historical and cultural
monuments. Excavations are underway at Tigranakert, which has a
significant meaning for the whole Armenian people. Works are also
underway at Amaras, Dadivank, and in Shushi. There are more and better
hotels, restaurants, and transportation in Artsakh than ever before.
The more our compatriots visit Artsakh, the stronger the connections
become. We understand that time can have an effect. But even from
far away, you do not stop loving your family or your motherland.
ES: What are your priorities for the Armenia Fund Telethon on
November 26?
AH: This year, donations made to the Fund will help development of
Shushi. Projects there include reconstruction of the former Shushi
girls' school, which will house NKR's Ministry of Culture. It is also
planned to move the local branch of [Armenia's] Agriculture University
to Shushi.
We already began work to relocate NKR's Supreme Court and other
judicial entities to Shushi. We hope to see these projects completed
in the next five to seven years.
Preparing for the 2010 elections ES: Last weekend the Free Motherland
party had its congress and elected you as its leader. What is the
history and political plans of this party?
AH: The Free Motherland party was established in January 2005 and I was
one of its founders. We participated in 2005 parliamentary elections,
and at the time came in second.
We also took part in the [2007] presidential elections and supported
the current president, Bako Sahakian. The main theses of our party's
program were reflected in the election program of President Sahakian.
Today, our party has the biggest faction in the National Assembly,
holding 12 of 33 seats. We are now preparing for parliamentary
elections due next year and will have a new election program. Should we
win, we will present our program to the president and after receiving
his approval we will implement it.
ES: Is the president a member of your party?
AH: No.
ES: Are you already the main ruling party?
AH: No. In the last presidential elections, four parties including
Free Motherland, Artsakh Democratic Party, ARF (Dashnaktsutiun), and
Movement 88 supported the president. Today they all are represented
in parliament and are part of government.
ES: How does President Sahakian's administration differ from former
president Arkady Ghukasian's in 1997-2007? Are there significant
differences, or is it the continuation of the past administration?
AH: Of course the differences are significant. The [incumbent]
president has his own election program, working style, team, and ideas
for development. Of course all this is reflected in the country's
economic indexes and demographic changes. Today Artsakh's economy is
growing at a good pace in spite of the world economic crisis.
ES: Is that a result of the president's efforts and foreign
investments?
AH: Yes, investments, economic policy, and implementation of
anti-corruption programs have all resulted in those indexes, and we
are working for this dynamic of development surely to continue.
ES: Thank you.
Editor's note: The Reporter extends its gratitude to Aram Avetisyan
from the NKR Office in the United States for his assistance with
translation.
------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Ara Harutiunian, 35, became the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic's sixth
prime minister, having been appointed to the post in September 2007
by President Bako Sahakian.
Since October 2009, Mr. Harutiunian also returned to the post of
chair of the Azat Hairenik (Free Motherland) political party, which
has the largest bloc in Karabakh's National Assembly and is currently
a favorite in next year's parliamentary elections.
Prior to his appointment as prime minister, from 2005 to 2007 Mr.
Harutiunian was leader of Azat Hairenik party, a member of parliament,
and chair of the parliament's budget committee.
Before entering politics, Mr. Harutiunian worked with ArmAgroBank,
heading its Askeran (1997-99) and Stepanakert (1999-2004) branches.
>From 1995 to 1997, he was an aide to the NKR minister of economy
and finance.
Mr. Harutiunian studied at Armenia's Economics Institute and the
Artsakh State University, where he earned undergraduate (1996) and
master's degrees in economics (1998).
Mr. Harutiunian is a veteran of the Karabakh war, having joined the
NKR Self Defense forces in 1992. He is married and has two children.
Emil Sanamyan
"Noravank" Foundation
23 November 2009
Ara Harutiunian discusses policy and politics
STEPANAKERT, NAGORNO-KARABAKH - Prime Minister Ara Harutiunian and
other Nagorno-Karabakh officials arrived in the United States this
week ahead of the annual Thanksgiving telethon organized by the
Hayastan All-Armenian Fund. On November 5, Washington editor Emil
Sanamyan spoke with Mr. Harutiunian in his office in Stepanakert. A
translation of that conversation follows. (Mr. Harutiunian's bio
appears at the end of this interview.)
Emil Sanamyan: Mr. Prime Minister, earlier this week you made a
number of statements rejecting the territorial concessions envisioned
under what is known as the Madrid proposal for a Karabakh settlement,
unveiled by France, Russia, and the United States in July. At the time
the NKR Foreign Ministry broadly criticized the proposal, but your
comments were more specific. Could you elaborate on NKR's position
with regard to that proposal?
Ara Harutiunian: The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic has not been formally
presented with the Madrid proposal. We have seen the statement and
media commentary, but as long as we are not formally presented with
a proposal, we cannot officially accept or reject it.
That said, we have a position repeatedly articulated by our president
and other officials, a position that the international community
needs to appreciate.
First, the people of Artsakh have already exercised their right to
self-determination.
Second, in a popular referendum, we adopted our constitution, which
specifies that Artsakh's territory is its present-day territory
comprising 11,400 sq km (4,400 sq mi), and it is not the territory
of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast.
Of course, we support the negotiation process and understand
that negotiations imply mutual compromises. But in the end, the
negotiations can produce results only when Artsakh authorities become
involved. Without our full participation, there will be no results.
Protocols ES: Another issue generating a lot of debate is the terms
of the Armenia-Turkey protocols signed on October 10. The Armenian
government has invested a lot of effort into that diplomatic initiative
and there has also been a lot of criticism of the protocols both in
Armenia and the diaspora. What is your view of that process?
AH: Generally we would welcome any step that contributes to
Armenia's economic development. But such a step should not come with
preconditions or disregard our national dignity and identity.
The future of our country depends on economic development. Armenians
are business savvy, and if they don't have opportunities in the
homeland, they will find them elsewhere; emigration leads to
demographic problems.
It is obvious that a Turkey-Armenia border opening would create new
opportunities for development. Those who argue that [Turkish imports]
would damage our economy are not correct. The same argument, after all,
could be made against countries we have open borders with, Georgia and
Iran. But that is not the case, and reflects a backward-looking policy.
Border opening with Turkey is important economically, but once again
it should come without preconditions, without historical revisionism,
and without a link to Artsakh negotiations.
If any one of these conditions is not met, we will be opposed and will
find the signing of these documents to be senseless. But as far as I
know, the president of the Republic of Armenia, in all his statements,
has ruled out any compromises on these issues.
I would stress once again that a solution to the Artsakh issue depends
on Artsakh itself. Any deals reached contrary to the will of Artsakh
people will remain on paper.
You will recall this is what happened when former Armenian President
Levon Ter-Petrosian agreed to the return of Kelbajar [after its capture
in April 1993]. Those efforts were in vain. Moreover, our army was able
to liberate Tigranakert, Kovsakan, and other areas [later in 1993].
Confident about security ES: As prime minister you deal mostly
with economic issues, but economics and security are quite
interconnected. Azerbaijan is continuing to arm itself and has
repeatedly expressed aggressive intentions. But there is little
Armenian criticism of this militarization and there is virtually no
criticism of countries selling weapons to Azerbaijan. Why not?
AH: We of course do not welcome Azerbaijan's policy that allocates
so much money for its armed forces and weapons purchases, but there
is also little we can do to influence this process.
Instead, we do what we can to make Azerbaijan think twice before
launching hostilities. We have an efficient defense system that is
not limited to today's standing army. Every citizen of Artsakh is a
[reservist] soldier and will defend his motherland the way we did in
the early 1990s.
Additionally, it is important to note that, say, the price of a
modern tank is in millions of dollars, while antitank weapons cost
only several thousand. We are not preparing for an aggression; we are
preparing for defense [so our costs are lower]. However, we also have
serious counterattack capabilities.
Each year, we implement large-scale programs aimed at increasing
capabilities of our army, and strengthening our defense perimeter.
Azerbaijan can make the calculations and knows that the Artsakh Army
will remain a guarantor of regional peace and stability for a long
time. We have made it clear that a new war would be very damaging for
Azerbaijan not just in human and financial terms, but also through
loss of territory.
We are confident about our capabilities and ready to confront any
aggressor.
Growing the diaspora-homeland link ES: Earlier today I visited the
Artsakh History Museum where a guide showed me a picture of your
older brother who was killed in the war.
This subject of war of course remains very close to everyone in
Artsakh.
But for many others, including in the diaspora, the war has become
a relatively distant memory and the sense of danger to Artsakh,
to Armenians, has largely passed. Why is Artsakh still important?
AH: It must be harder to maintain the attachment to your motherland
when you live far from it rather than when you live here. From far
you miss it, but nostalgia alone can be exhausted over the years.
To preserve this attachment to Armenia, to Artsakh, we encourage
diaspora Armenians to visit the motherland more often. Once you
visit and experience Artsakh, you will fall in love with Artsakh,
live Artsakh. Our policy now is to promote such visits.
In part for this purpose, we are now constructing an airport,
improving roads, improving the access to our historical and cultural
monuments. Excavations are underway at Tigranakert, which has a
significant meaning for the whole Armenian people. Works are also
underway at Amaras, Dadivank, and in Shushi. There are more and better
hotels, restaurants, and transportation in Artsakh than ever before.
The more our compatriots visit Artsakh, the stronger the connections
become. We understand that time can have an effect. But even from
far away, you do not stop loving your family or your motherland.
ES: What are your priorities for the Armenia Fund Telethon on
November 26?
AH: This year, donations made to the Fund will help development of
Shushi. Projects there include reconstruction of the former Shushi
girls' school, which will house NKR's Ministry of Culture. It is also
planned to move the local branch of [Armenia's] Agriculture University
to Shushi.
We already began work to relocate NKR's Supreme Court and other
judicial entities to Shushi. We hope to see these projects completed
in the next five to seven years.
Preparing for the 2010 elections ES: Last weekend the Free Motherland
party had its congress and elected you as its leader. What is the
history and political plans of this party?
AH: The Free Motherland party was established in January 2005 and I was
one of its founders. We participated in 2005 parliamentary elections,
and at the time came in second.
We also took part in the [2007] presidential elections and supported
the current president, Bako Sahakian. The main theses of our party's
program were reflected in the election program of President Sahakian.
Today, our party has the biggest faction in the National Assembly,
holding 12 of 33 seats. We are now preparing for parliamentary
elections due next year and will have a new election program. Should we
win, we will present our program to the president and after receiving
his approval we will implement it.
ES: Is the president a member of your party?
AH: No.
ES: Are you already the main ruling party?
AH: No. In the last presidential elections, four parties including
Free Motherland, Artsakh Democratic Party, ARF (Dashnaktsutiun), and
Movement 88 supported the president. Today they all are represented
in parliament and are part of government.
ES: How does President Sahakian's administration differ from former
president Arkady Ghukasian's in 1997-2007? Are there significant
differences, or is it the continuation of the past administration?
AH: Of course the differences are significant. The [incumbent]
president has his own election program, working style, team, and ideas
for development. Of course all this is reflected in the country's
economic indexes and demographic changes. Today Artsakh's economy is
growing at a good pace in spite of the world economic crisis.
ES: Is that a result of the president's efforts and foreign
investments?
AH: Yes, investments, economic policy, and implementation of
anti-corruption programs have all resulted in those indexes, and we
are working for this dynamic of development surely to continue.
ES: Thank you.
Editor's note: The Reporter extends its gratitude to Aram Avetisyan
from the NKR Office in the United States for his assistance with
translation.
------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Ara Harutiunian, 35, became the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic's sixth
prime minister, having been appointed to the post in September 2007
by President Bako Sahakian.
Since October 2009, Mr. Harutiunian also returned to the post of
chair of the Azat Hairenik (Free Motherland) political party, which
has the largest bloc in Karabakh's National Assembly and is currently
a favorite in next year's parliamentary elections.
Prior to his appointment as prime minister, from 2005 to 2007 Mr.
Harutiunian was leader of Azat Hairenik party, a member of parliament,
and chair of the parliament's budget committee.
Before entering politics, Mr. Harutiunian worked with ArmAgroBank,
heading its Askeran (1997-99) and Stepanakert (1999-2004) branches.
>From 1995 to 1997, he was an aide to the NKR minister of economy
and finance.
Mr. Harutiunian studied at Armenia's Economics Institute and the
Artsakh State University, where he earned undergraduate (1996) and
master's degrees in economics (1998).
Mr. Harutiunian is a veteran of the Karabakh war, having joined the
NKR Self Defense forces in 1992. He is married and has two children.