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AGOS - "WE WILL RECLAIM OUR PROPERTY"
Mayda Saris
http://www.agos.com.tr/eng/index.php?module= news&news_id=1254&cat_id=1254
25 Ekim 2009
Vartkes Ergun Ayýk, chairman of the executive board of Saint Giragos
Armenian Church Charitable Foundation in Diyarbakýr, says that a
variety of buildings and government offices stand on the property of
foundations and that how such property changed hands is not entirely
clear.
While Armenian foundations filed 262 applications at the Regional
Directorate of Foundations for the return of registered real estate
that had been taken over by the Turkish state, it was Diyarbakýr,
home to 190 Armenian foundation estates in 29 neighborhoods, that
became the center of attention. Vartkes Ergun Ayýk, chairman of
the executive board of Diyarbakýr's Saint Giragos Armenian Church
Charitable Foundation, shared the details of the subject with Agos
readers. The Foundation had to file its applications on a neighbourhood
basis for lack of sufficient documents. The executive board engaged in
a very comprehensive effort, coupling its work to secure the return
of the foundation's real estate with important steps towards the
restoration of the Diyarbakýr church.
Yetesia Týrtýr, chairman of the Joint Real Estate Commission, who
talked to Agos about efforts for the return of confiscated property,
mentioned that you found a ledger containing a list of the properties
in Diyarbakýr. When did this ledger come into your possession?
One of the first things we did when we started to work two years ago
was to go to Saint Giragos Church and explore. We found documents
covered in dust and dirt in a chamber of the church that was in
miserable condition. We transported all three of these sacks of
documents. We classified them. The most important of these was this
Armenian ledger containing a list of the real estate belonging to
the Armenian foundations in Diyarbakýr. We had the ledger translated
into Turkish.
Are all of the properties belonging to your foundation listed in
this ledger?
Yes, all of the 190 estates in 29 neighbourhoods are recorded here. We
do not have any other documents concerning these estates. They all need
to be investigated one by one. For instance, the names of most of the
locations have changed today, hence a very meticulous investigation
needs to be carried out.
Will all of these estates have to be taken to court and settled there?
All of our files have to be settled in court. Because in practice,
you need to be making use of the estates that are the object of your
application. In other words, you are using a place, it is evident
that it belongs to you but you do not have a title deed, hence you
file an application. Our situation is not like that. Our registered
estates are being used by other people. Nevertheless, we filed our
applications so that everything is put on the record.
How will you meet the expenses of hundreds of court cases?
These cases demand a large budget. They involve fees and lots of
expenses. We will prepare a report and present it to VADÝP (Platform
for Solidarity and Communication between Foundations), these belong
to us all. We must do whatever is needed. It will be an important
contribution even if we succeed in getting part of these returned.
Did you come across interesting registers in the ledger?
At the end of the ledger there is a list of the fixed assets belonging
to the church in 1924 - furniture and wares, rugs etc... Unfortunately
none of these exist today. There also are properties registered in the
name of the Saint Jacob Monastery in Jerusalem; we filed applications
for them too. I informed Aram Sýrpazan, I think he gave Jerusalem
information on the issue.
Do you have estates without title deeds?
When we took office, Aram Sýrpazan gave us 48 title deeds. All of them
dated from 1952-56. On paper, we own these estates. However, when we
studied the situation on the ground, we unfortunately found buildings,
multi-story apartments, and government offices rising on many of them.
It is not very clear how they managed to acquire these.
Did you take these to court?
We were able to trace 19 of the 48 deeds and reclaim them. There
already are two churches in the ownership of our foundation: Saint
Giragos and Saint Sarkis. The others are various houses and shops
around the churches. We have now filed a declaratory judgment lawsuit
concerning seven large properties (5000-7000 square meters) located at
the city center. All seven are situated in the Koþkler neighbourhood.
The fact-finding stage is over, now the action stage is beginning.
That is, we will now demand that our property be handed back to us.
You are talking about very large plots ...
When we started the investigation, we kept going down to the archive
of the Office of Land Registry. The registry official in charge of
old ledgers was astonished at each visit. One time he said "Once,
half of Diyarbakýr belonged to you." It is impossible to hear this
and to remain indifferent.
Recently, the cemetery in Diyarbakýr came to the fore in connection
with Aram Dikran's funeral. Is there a title deed for the cemetery?
This cemetery is also located in Koþkler neighbourhood and we have
its title deed. But that's an interesting situation. The title deed
states that the area of the cemetery is 1,080 square meters. However,
we carried out a retrospective investigation, which yielded results
you can't even dream of. The cemetery used to be twenty thousand
square meters in the old days. The state dividing it up time and
again reduced the cemetery to its present state.
What types of buildings were built on land belonging to the foundation?
Large complexes were built on these plots. For example on one there
is the facilities of the State Hydraulic Works and on the other
a vocational high school. We had these identified. How did these
changes take place-- did the state confiscate them? Did the state
divide them up? Or did it use them like this because there was no
information about them? It is difficult to get precise information.
Title deed allocation certificates were issued for some. For instance
there are five or six title deed allocation certificate records for
a five thousand square meter piece of land. However, these are 100,
150, 200 square meter title deeds, comprising only 20% of that piece
of land. There are many question marks. How were these certificates
issued? We are exploring everything.
Were there problems with tenants?
There were tenants in 20 buildings. You won't believe this but the
rents were like five liras, ten liras. In spite of this, the tenants
had not been paying their rents for years. We have now renewed the
contracts. The figures are at the level of eighty liras, a hundred
liras; not very large. But the important thing is that they have all
been registered now. This is a great advantage; if we manage to get
the Saint Giragos Church restored, it will survive by means of the
revenues from these estates.
Is there information on the number of foundations in Diyarbakýr in
the past?
We have had only one foundation in Diyarbakýr since 1950. We do not
have a full grasp of earlier dates but three names are mentioned:
Saint Sarkis, Saint Giragos and Hýdýr Ýlyas. In other words, the
name of our foundation goes "Saint Sarkis, Giragos, Hýdýr Ýlyas". The
three foundations appear to have merged.
Saint Giragos Church was in good condition up until 1980. How come
it is in such a worn out state now?
First a tiny part in the ceiling fell off. Lack of maintenance and
repair led to the devastation today.
Are there recent developments concerning restoration work? You had
initiated a tender, has it closed?
The tender is closed. We received the bids and evaluated them but
the winner is yet to be announced. It will be decided in a meeting
we will hold two days from now.
How many firms participated in the tender?
Only three firms filed bids because the job is a very difficult one.
Our tender specifications may have been rather difficult also. We
told the firms that we could also be making use of the donations we
may raise. For example someone promised to provide the timber that
will be used in the restoration. Hence, we will hand that timber
to the construction company and deduct it from the bill. This will
not suit the purposes of all firms. We said "Priority, at all costs,
goes to the completion of the roof." Even if we don't have any money,
we will get it somehow and construct the roof. We have undertaken the
responsibility. Yet, after that, if we don't have enough money, the
contractor will either wait for us to obtain the funds or leave. Under
these conditions, the tender is not a very attractive one in terms
of business. Yet, there is another aspect to this project; if it is
realized, it will be a very important reference for both the architect
and the contracting company.
We have split the restoration work into three stages. First the roof
of the church will be completed. This is an interesting building. Both
the walls and both sides of the arches over the columns have stone
facing with filling (stone and mortar) inside. With the roof open,
rain and snow wore the building out severely. It is not clear that
it can survive one more year under these conditions. If the arches
and the columns give way, the task will become very difficult and
the cost will rise.
At the moment we are striving to get the roof constructed and
complete. We will do whatever is necessary. If need be, we will have
to raise money among ourselves and complete the roof.
Are you having difficulty raising money? Is the community abroad
showing interest in the issue?
The municipality promised to contribute. We also raised some money. We
made some contacts abroad. However our impression is that in order
to be able to receive any significant contribution from abroad,
we first have to commence the actual work on site here.
Are they maybe having difficulty believing that the work will actually
be realized?
There are doubts on two counts: Firstly, will we be able to do this?
Secondly, will the people of Diyarbakýr, the municipalities allow this?
How do you see the situation?
In fact, until now, the municipalities of the region, the governor's
office, the mayor's office, the Council of Monuments, the Regional
Directorate of Foundations, all want this work to be done. Otherwise
you could not get it done even if you had fifty million dollars
in ready cash. We need to put this atmosphere to good use. The
municipality promised to finance one third of the cost, and we will
collect the rest.
Has this turned out to be more of a matter of interest for people
from Diyarbakýr?
I talk to old residents of Diyarbakýr. But this belongs to the
community as a whole, so everyone should show interest. I talked
to Viken Sýrpazan in Washington, to Khajag Sýrpazan in New York;
they all have a positive approach. Our friend from Diyarbakýr Hrant
Gulyan who now lives in the USA will bring a group of 100-150 people
to Diyarbakýr next summer. If they see that work has already started
when they arrive, it will be very impressive.
Did you apply to the European Union for funds?
We did but they had no funds left in the 2009 budget, so we will now
reapply for 2010. I also talked to the Adana Consul of the USA, and
took him to Diyarbakýr and to the church. He showed deep interest. If
the construction begins, we will revisit all of these people. We are
doing our best to publicize this.
Were there any negative attitudes?
Unfortunately we also have voices from within our community saying
"There is no need to spend so much money for this. There are
no Armenians there anyway." But of course there is no powerful
opposition. The majority is more sensitive and in favour of saving
such a historical monument. In the beginning of the century, there
were 2000-3000 churches in Anatolia. How many are left now? If
this one collapses too, another trace of an immense history will be
obliterated. Words end and sink into oblivion at one point or another,
but imprints of civilization remain.
It must be no easy task to carry out such intensive work. How many
are you in the executive board of the Foundation?
We are only four. In the past, those who did not reside in the same
city were not allowed to take office in the Foundation. Upon the
removal of the condition of residing in Diyarbakýr, we immediately
set up a team. I did not even know my name was included in this team
set up by Aram Sýrpazan. We started out as a group of six. One of
our friends passed away and another resigned, leaving four of us.
These four people are currently waging huge efforts to reclaim the
history of Diyarbakýr and real estate belonging to their foundation.
Support for these efforts is of paramount importance, because alongside
the reclaiming of foundation property, the Saint Giragos Church, once
restored, will be a gift not only to Armenians but to all of humanity.
Mayda Saris
http://www.agos.com.tr/eng/index.php?module= news&news_id=1254&cat_id=1254
25 Ekim 2009
Vartkes Ergun Ayýk, chairman of the executive board of Saint Giragos
Armenian Church Charitable Foundation in Diyarbakýr, says that a
variety of buildings and government offices stand on the property of
foundations and that how such property changed hands is not entirely
clear.
While Armenian foundations filed 262 applications at the Regional
Directorate of Foundations for the return of registered real estate
that had been taken over by the Turkish state, it was Diyarbakýr,
home to 190 Armenian foundation estates in 29 neighborhoods, that
became the center of attention. Vartkes Ergun Ayýk, chairman of
the executive board of Diyarbakýr's Saint Giragos Armenian Church
Charitable Foundation, shared the details of the subject with Agos
readers. The Foundation had to file its applications on a neighbourhood
basis for lack of sufficient documents. The executive board engaged in
a very comprehensive effort, coupling its work to secure the return
of the foundation's real estate with important steps towards the
restoration of the Diyarbakýr church.
Yetesia Týrtýr, chairman of the Joint Real Estate Commission, who
talked to Agos about efforts for the return of confiscated property,
mentioned that you found a ledger containing a list of the properties
in Diyarbakýr. When did this ledger come into your possession?
One of the first things we did when we started to work two years ago
was to go to Saint Giragos Church and explore. We found documents
covered in dust and dirt in a chamber of the church that was in
miserable condition. We transported all three of these sacks of
documents. We classified them. The most important of these was this
Armenian ledger containing a list of the real estate belonging to
the Armenian foundations in Diyarbakýr. We had the ledger translated
into Turkish.
Are all of the properties belonging to your foundation listed in
this ledger?
Yes, all of the 190 estates in 29 neighbourhoods are recorded here. We
do not have any other documents concerning these estates. They all need
to be investigated one by one. For instance, the names of most of the
locations have changed today, hence a very meticulous investigation
needs to be carried out.
Will all of these estates have to be taken to court and settled there?
All of our files have to be settled in court. Because in practice,
you need to be making use of the estates that are the object of your
application. In other words, you are using a place, it is evident
that it belongs to you but you do not have a title deed, hence you
file an application. Our situation is not like that. Our registered
estates are being used by other people. Nevertheless, we filed our
applications so that everything is put on the record.
How will you meet the expenses of hundreds of court cases?
These cases demand a large budget. They involve fees and lots of
expenses. We will prepare a report and present it to VADÝP (Platform
for Solidarity and Communication between Foundations), these belong
to us all. We must do whatever is needed. It will be an important
contribution even if we succeed in getting part of these returned.
Did you come across interesting registers in the ledger?
At the end of the ledger there is a list of the fixed assets belonging
to the church in 1924 - furniture and wares, rugs etc... Unfortunately
none of these exist today. There also are properties registered in the
name of the Saint Jacob Monastery in Jerusalem; we filed applications
for them too. I informed Aram Sýrpazan, I think he gave Jerusalem
information on the issue.
Do you have estates without title deeds?
When we took office, Aram Sýrpazan gave us 48 title deeds. All of them
dated from 1952-56. On paper, we own these estates. However, when we
studied the situation on the ground, we unfortunately found buildings,
multi-story apartments, and government offices rising on many of them.
It is not very clear how they managed to acquire these.
Did you take these to court?
We were able to trace 19 of the 48 deeds and reclaim them. There
already are two churches in the ownership of our foundation: Saint
Giragos and Saint Sarkis. The others are various houses and shops
around the churches. We have now filed a declaratory judgment lawsuit
concerning seven large properties (5000-7000 square meters) located at
the city center. All seven are situated in the Koþkler neighbourhood.
The fact-finding stage is over, now the action stage is beginning.
That is, we will now demand that our property be handed back to us.
You are talking about very large plots ...
When we started the investigation, we kept going down to the archive
of the Office of Land Registry. The registry official in charge of
old ledgers was astonished at each visit. One time he said "Once,
half of Diyarbakýr belonged to you." It is impossible to hear this
and to remain indifferent.
Recently, the cemetery in Diyarbakýr came to the fore in connection
with Aram Dikran's funeral. Is there a title deed for the cemetery?
This cemetery is also located in Koþkler neighbourhood and we have
its title deed. But that's an interesting situation. The title deed
states that the area of the cemetery is 1,080 square meters. However,
we carried out a retrospective investigation, which yielded results
you can't even dream of. The cemetery used to be twenty thousand
square meters in the old days. The state dividing it up time and
again reduced the cemetery to its present state.
What types of buildings were built on land belonging to the foundation?
Large complexes were built on these plots. For example on one there
is the facilities of the State Hydraulic Works and on the other
a vocational high school. We had these identified. How did these
changes take place-- did the state confiscate them? Did the state
divide them up? Or did it use them like this because there was no
information about them? It is difficult to get precise information.
Title deed allocation certificates were issued for some. For instance
there are five or six title deed allocation certificate records for
a five thousand square meter piece of land. However, these are 100,
150, 200 square meter title deeds, comprising only 20% of that piece
of land. There are many question marks. How were these certificates
issued? We are exploring everything.
Were there problems with tenants?
There were tenants in 20 buildings. You won't believe this but the
rents were like five liras, ten liras. In spite of this, the tenants
had not been paying their rents for years. We have now renewed the
contracts. The figures are at the level of eighty liras, a hundred
liras; not very large. But the important thing is that they have all
been registered now. This is a great advantage; if we manage to get
the Saint Giragos Church restored, it will survive by means of the
revenues from these estates.
Is there information on the number of foundations in Diyarbakýr in
the past?
We have had only one foundation in Diyarbakýr since 1950. We do not
have a full grasp of earlier dates but three names are mentioned:
Saint Sarkis, Saint Giragos and Hýdýr Ýlyas. In other words, the
name of our foundation goes "Saint Sarkis, Giragos, Hýdýr Ýlyas". The
three foundations appear to have merged.
Saint Giragos Church was in good condition up until 1980. How come
it is in such a worn out state now?
First a tiny part in the ceiling fell off. Lack of maintenance and
repair led to the devastation today.
Are there recent developments concerning restoration work? You had
initiated a tender, has it closed?
The tender is closed. We received the bids and evaluated them but
the winner is yet to be announced. It will be decided in a meeting
we will hold two days from now.
How many firms participated in the tender?
Only three firms filed bids because the job is a very difficult one.
Our tender specifications may have been rather difficult also. We
told the firms that we could also be making use of the donations we
may raise. For example someone promised to provide the timber that
will be used in the restoration. Hence, we will hand that timber
to the construction company and deduct it from the bill. This will
not suit the purposes of all firms. We said "Priority, at all costs,
goes to the completion of the roof." Even if we don't have any money,
we will get it somehow and construct the roof. We have undertaken the
responsibility. Yet, after that, if we don't have enough money, the
contractor will either wait for us to obtain the funds or leave. Under
these conditions, the tender is not a very attractive one in terms
of business. Yet, there is another aspect to this project; if it is
realized, it will be a very important reference for both the architect
and the contracting company.
We have split the restoration work into three stages. First the roof
of the church will be completed. This is an interesting building. Both
the walls and both sides of the arches over the columns have stone
facing with filling (stone and mortar) inside. With the roof open,
rain and snow wore the building out severely. It is not clear that
it can survive one more year under these conditions. If the arches
and the columns give way, the task will become very difficult and
the cost will rise.
At the moment we are striving to get the roof constructed and
complete. We will do whatever is necessary. If need be, we will have
to raise money among ourselves and complete the roof.
Are you having difficulty raising money? Is the community abroad
showing interest in the issue?
The municipality promised to contribute. We also raised some money. We
made some contacts abroad. However our impression is that in order
to be able to receive any significant contribution from abroad,
we first have to commence the actual work on site here.
Are they maybe having difficulty believing that the work will actually
be realized?
There are doubts on two counts: Firstly, will we be able to do this?
Secondly, will the people of Diyarbakýr, the municipalities allow this?
How do you see the situation?
In fact, until now, the municipalities of the region, the governor's
office, the mayor's office, the Council of Monuments, the Regional
Directorate of Foundations, all want this work to be done. Otherwise
you could not get it done even if you had fifty million dollars
in ready cash. We need to put this atmosphere to good use. The
municipality promised to finance one third of the cost, and we will
collect the rest.
Has this turned out to be more of a matter of interest for people
from Diyarbakýr?
I talk to old residents of Diyarbakýr. But this belongs to the
community as a whole, so everyone should show interest. I talked
to Viken Sýrpazan in Washington, to Khajag Sýrpazan in New York;
they all have a positive approach. Our friend from Diyarbakýr Hrant
Gulyan who now lives in the USA will bring a group of 100-150 people
to Diyarbakýr next summer. If they see that work has already started
when they arrive, it will be very impressive.
Did you apply to the European Union for funds?
We did but they had no funds left in the 2009 budget, so we will now
reapply for 2010. I also talked to the Adana Consul of the USA, and
took him to Diyarbakýr and to the church. He showed deep interest. If
the construction begins, we will revisit all of these people. We are
doing our best to publicize this.
Were there any negative attitudes?
Unfortunately we also have voices from within our community saying
"There is no need to spend so much money for this. There are
no Armenians there anyway." But of course there is no powerful
opposition. The majority is more sensitive and in favour of saving
such a historical monument. In the beginning of the century, there
were 2000-3000 churches in Anatolia. How many are left now? If
this one collapses too, another trace of an immense history will be
obliterated. Words end and sink into oblivion at one point or another,
but imprints of civilization remain.
It must be no easy task to carry out such intensive work. How many
are you in the executive board of the Foundation?
We are only four. In the past, those who did not reside in the same
city were not allowed to take office in the Foundation. Upon the
removal of the condition of residing in Diyarbakýr, we immediately
set up a team. I did not even know my name was included in this team
set up by Aram Sýrpazan. We started out as a group of six. One of
our friends passed away and another resigned, leaving four of us.
These four people are currently waging huge efforts to reclaim the
history of Diyarbakýr and real estate belonging to their foundation.
Support for these efforts is of paramount importance, because alongside
the reclaiming of foundation property, the Saint Giragos Church, once
restored, will be a gift not only to Armenians but to all of humanity.