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TURKEY'S ERDOGAN VIEWS POSITION ON ISRAEL, REGIONAL COOPERATION, EU
Al-Jazeera (in Arabic)
Oct 25 2009
Qatar
Doha Al-Jazeera Satellite Channel Television in Arabic, independent
television station financed by the Qatari Government, at 1730 gmt on
25 October carries on its "Special Encounter" political talk show a
28-minute interview with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyib Erdogan
by Yusuf al-Sharif. The place and date of the interview are not given.
Questions are in Arabic; Erdogan responds in Turkish fading into
superimposed Arabic translation.
Al-Sharif begins the interview with the following question: "You
criticized Israel heavily and sharply during the Gaza war. You are
still criticizing it and demanding that it be brought to account
for using white phosphorous against civilians in Gaza. You are
also demanding that Israel's nuclear facilities be inspected, the
way Iranian nuclear facilities are inspected. Turkey has cancelled
the aerial military manoeuvres with Israel this month. After all
this tension, can the current Turkish-Israeli ties be described as a
strategic alliance? Is this a passing cloud or are there deep problems
between Turkey and Israel?"
Replying, Erdogan says that his reactions "were based on the
fact that Turkey is an important nation in this area, following
closely the developments in this region." He adds: "However, these
reactions were not within a religious or ethnic context but within
a humanitarian context." Erdogan says: "Had we not dealt with this
issue from this perspective, our stand would not have been fair. If
some have appreciated and praised this stand of ours, it was due to
the fairness and humanitarian nature of our stand.
"Concerning the Middle East problems, we always listen to the
voice of our conscience and the reaction of the street. We take a
middle-of-the-road position. We have not tried to be a party to what
happened. If some accused us of standing by one side against the
other, we would say that we always stand in support of the truth,
and with the oppressed, without any hesitation.
"Weapons of mass destruction were used in Gaza and this is a fact.
Phosphorous bombs are mass destruction weapons. Can we see this and
remain silent? This will not be fair."
Erdogan says that Turkey has seen how the world rushed to stop the war
in Georgia, "and we were among those who contributed" to this effort
"but we failed to understand why the world waited for two weeks and
was a spectator during the war on Gaza without making any move,"
noting that "this was a regrettable stand that cannot be explained."
He adds that nine months have passed since the Gaza events and almost
seven month have passed since the donors conference was held in
Sharm al-Shaykh, but no part of the promised reconstruction process
has been implemented. The Gaza infrastructure totally collapsed and
so many promises were made to rebuild it but until now the building
materials are prevented from arriving in Gaza. Again I ask why the
West continues to be silent on this siege.
"Look at the contents of the Goldstone Report. Atrocities were
mentioned in the report, which the Human Rights Council adopted. These
are facts. These things are extremely serious and everyone must
pause and think about them. The United nations must shoulder its
responsibilities towards this report. The report should not meet
the same fate that hundreds of UN resolutions concerning Israel met
and remained unimplemented. Schools were bombed in Gaza - schools
belonging to the United Nations - and Hospitals. Hundreds of civilians
were killed and injured in this war. Some of them came to Turkey for
treatment and I visited them and talked to them and I have seen their
tragedies. I cannot remain silent after seeing what I have seen with
my own eyes.
"We have signed many agreements with Israel. While I am talking now,
I am not being hostile to Israel, but if we say that we are friends
in this region, we must respect our relationships.
"Until recently, Israel had been trusting Turkey and accepting its
mediations with Syria for the sake of peace. Suddenly, Turkey has
become a state that cannot be trusted. Then why did you trust us in
the past? This means that an important change has occurred in the
minds of the Israeli politicians. That is the problem. We hope that
we will overcome these differences for the sake of salvaging peace,
which has been delayed for so long."
Asked if this means that he will follow the developments concerning
the Goldstone Report at the United Nations to the end, he says:
"Naturally. No doubt about this. Those who are responsible for
this report must follow its development to the end in order to
have results." Asked if the United States is mediating, even if
unofficially, to reduce the tension between Turkey and Israel, he
says: "We are not talking about the possibility of severing legal
and official relations with Israel. We have relations and agreements
with Israel but we also should respect the desire of the people
and the average citizens. Our cancellation of the aerial military
manoeuvres with Israel was within this context, due to the Gaza
war. I represent the people and I have to listen to what the people
say. These manoeuvres are Turkish manoeuvres and Turkey is the side
that can decide who can join and participate in them. Nobody can impose
anything on us in this connection. In the past Israel participated
in these manoeuvres at our invitation, but now, due to the Gaza war,
we have decided not to invite it."
Asked if "the cancellation of the military manoeuvres between Turkey
and Israel was really a political response to the Gaza war or was it
a military response to the delay by Israel of the delivery of drones
that Turkey had bought from Israel," he replies: "No, no. This issue
had nothing to do with cancelling the manoeuvres. The purchase of
the drones and the delay in their delivery is an issue that is being
followed with legal circles. The delivery of the drones has been
delayed, and their delivery is long overdue. It is not a recent thing.
The Defence Ministry is following this issue."
Asked how he can criticize Israel so strongly and at the same time
meet with the Jewish lobby in the United States and "have good
relations" with it, Erdogan says he met with about 50 officials and
representatives of the Jewish groups and "I talked to them clearly
and frankly," adding that he told them: "If you trust us we will
tell the truth even if it is painful to you. Can anyone of you
condone the killing of 1,500 women and children with lethal mass
destruction weapons? How can you convince me? How will you justify
injuring over 5,000 civilians and the destroying schools and hospitals
and infrastructure? I told them that Israel has used its most lethal
weapons in a lopsided battle and these things cannot be justified or
explained at all. They did not provide any response to what I said."
Al-Sharif asks Erdogan why it is that every time a positive round
of negotiations between Iran and the West takes place, "we witness
negative developments that cast a shadow on these negotiations," such
as "the announcement about the new Iranian nuclear facility following
the 1 October negotiations and the recent bombings in southeastern
Iran, which Tehran said were backed by the United States and Britain."
He asks Erdogan what he will be taking with him to Iran, "especially
because you will be leaving Iran to the United States." Erdogan
says he will go first to Pakistan and then to Tehran. He adds: "The
Pakistani-Iranian relations are extremely important. Both countries
are suffering and facing some problems. Through your television,
I would like to offer my condolences to all the Iranians over the
victims they sustained in the Baluchistan bombing, which killed 40
Iranians. We are aware of the tragedies and injustices that terrorism
causes because regrettably we experienced it and we do not want others
to experience it."
Erdogan says that he "has offered condolences to President
Ahmadinezhad," and adds: "I oppose severing relations between Iran
and the West." He notes that "after our meeting at the UN Security
Council, it was announced that an International Atomic Energy Agency
[IAEA] delegation would leave for Iran on 25 October to inspect the
new Iranian nuclear facility, and that the delegation would submit
a report on this issue."
Erdogan adds: "Sometime back, fake reports were disseminated about
the Iranian nuclear activities and Al-Baradi'i declared that they were
fake and fabricated and had nothing to do with the IAEA. We will know
the facts of the new Iranian facility after 25 October." He says:
"We are against Iran having nuclear arms - not only Iran but all
states in the region. It is unfair and unacceptable for a state to
have nuclear arms in the region, and yet be ignored, while emphasis
is placed only on Iran. This is unfair. The entire region must be
purged of these weapons. The IAEA should expand its inspection to
include non-member countries."
He says: "Iran must continue its dialogue with the West because it
is the natural thing to do. No results can be reached without dialogue.
Normal relations must be established between Iran and Western
countries. As for imposing sanctions on Iran, the consequences of this
method is clear to all. Our stand on this issue is well-known." He
says that states that possess nuclear weapons must not ask Iran not
to try to have similar weapons.
Asked what Turkey is planning to do in the region, given the
improvement of its relations with Syria and Iraq, and if Turkey is
trying to revive the Ottoman history, Erdogan replies that these are
extremely important steps, especially because they include strategic
economic cooperation, which will ensure close relations among these
states. He adds: "On the one hand, we have established the Strategic
Cooperation Council with Syria, and on the other hand we started to
activate another cooperation council with Iraq." He says there will
be projects in the fields of education, health, trade, security,
military industrialization, transportation, agriculture and energy,
"and these will serve the interests of the three states but they will
not harm anyone."
He says: "Mutual investments will multiply and after bilateral
investments there will be trilateral investments, and this will no
doubt lead to greater coordination and cooperation on the political
level based on joint interests." He says the 21st century is the
age of openness and partnership and Iraq needs Syria and Turkey to
support its progress.
Asked about his future vision of these regional projects and if it
is possible to include Iran and Israel in such regional cooperation,
Erdogan says: "We are working on a similar agreement with Russia,
and I suggested this to Mr Putin during his visit to Ankara, and he
agreed." He says he hopes such an agreement will be signed in Moscow
shortly, and adds: "We will establish a joint strategic cooperation
council between Turkey and Russia. We also suggested the same thing to
Greece and we are thinking of including the Caucasus states in this."
Asked if this is an alternative to joining the EU, he replies: "These
projects have nothing whatever to do with the EU. The EU is a political
project," and adds: "we will present this strategic cooperation idea
to neighbouring EU member states such as Romania and Bulgaria," and
continues: "This will not be against the EU but it will perhaps pave
the way and make easier Turkey's entry into the EU in the future."
Asked why Turkey has been persistent in its efforts to join the
EU despite the successes that it realized in the Middle East and
"what the EU can possibly realize for Turkey," Erdogan replies:
"Turkey is a democratic and secular state and there are 27 members in
the EU. Our joining this group of states will strengthen our vision
and enhance our plans for the future." He says joining the EU will
increase Turkey's strength and it will not lose anything, adding that
"we are also colleagues of many EU states in NATO and in the group of
security and cooperation, and all these things should have speeded up
Turkey's membership of the EU, and adds: "It is regrettable that the
EU is not paying attention to these things. The EU should not place
obstacles to our entry. What is their justification? They say that
the population of Turkey is big and we say that this population will
increase the strength of the EU." He says the conditions of Turkey
are much better than the conditions of many EU members, and regrets
"statements by some leaders of the European states."
Erdogan says: "Only one state in the region can extend full support
for Iraq and realize the greatest amount of harmony and integration;
namely Turkey." He argues that Turkey will be the most important and
secure territory for a network to transfer the Iraqi oil to the world.
On the Kurdish issue, he says that some of the Kurds are members
of a peaceful opposition in Turkey and some are carrying up arms
and they are "promoting terrorism against Turkey." He says Turkey
is determined to confront them by all means because "resisting
terrorism is the simplest and most important right of the state,"
noting that the Turkish state respects any opposition party within its
democratic system. He says that the Kurdish rebels are being financed
by organizations abroad, noting that the United States and Europe
have some of these organizations. He adds that the United States
froze the accounts of three PKK leaders due to their involvement in
the drug trade. He says the European states are not cooperating with
Turkey in this connection.
Asked about the PKK Kurds who returned to Turkey, saying that they have
a message of peace, he says that this is the result of our project;
namely, the democratic openness, "but some are trying to distort what
we did," giving it other meanings.
On relations with Armenia and the Zurich protocol, he says the Turkish
government has sent the protocol to the speaker of Parliament and they
will begin working on it, noting that Turkey awaits support from the
Minsk group, which is working on a solution for the Nagorno Karabakh
issue. He adds: "Without efforts by the Minsk group to solve the
dispute between Armenia and Azerbaijan, it would be very difficult
for us to make any progress on the protocol. We have sent the foreign
minister and his adviser to inform our Azeri brothers of the situation
and put them in the picture before we sign the protocol."
Asked in conclusion if he does not believe that President Obama is
incapable of fulfilling the promises he made to activate the middle
East peace process and that he looks timid vis-a-vis the new Israeli
government, Erdogan replies: "It is not easy to realize the promises
of the US President. He has been president for only 10 months and he
is trying to resolve chronic problems."
Erdogan says he will leave Iran for the United States and will meet
with President Obama and talk to him on these issues. He adds: "You are
aware that President Obama has won the Nobel peace prize. Giving him
this prize at such an early date is significant. We all know how and
when an official wins the Nobel peace prize. One of the most important
points that I will emphasize during my Washington visit will be the
need for Washington to continue using its weight and determination to
activate the Middle East peace process without any hesitation, retreat,
or slackness." He adds: "We have not lost our hope for peace yet. I
expect that the US President will fulfil his promises and I hope that
he will be as I asked him to be; namely, the voice of the oppressed
and wronged people in this world. I believe that he has given important
promises in his speeches in Cairo and Ankara and he must fulfil them."
Al-Jazeera (in Arabic)
Oct 25 2009
Qatar
Doha Al-Jazeera Satellite Channel Television in Arabic, independent
television station financed by the Qatari Government, at 1730 gmt on
25 October carries on its "Special Encounter" political talk show a
28-minute interview with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyib Erdogan
by Yusuf al-Sharif. The place and date of the interview are not given.
Questions are in Arabic; Erdogan responds in Turkish fading into
superimposed Arabic translation.
Al-Sharif begins the interview with the following question: "You
criticized Israel heavily and sharply during the Gaza war. You are
still criticizing it and demanding that it be brought to account
for using white phosphorous against civilians in Gaza. You are
also demanding that Israel's nuclear facilities be inspected, the
way Iranian nuclear facilities are inspected. Turkey has cancelled
the aerial military manoeuvres with Israel this month. After all
this tension, can the current Turkish-Israeli ties be described as a
strategic alliance? Is this a passing cloud or are there deep problems
between Turkey and Israel?"
Replying, Erdogan says that his reactions "were based on the
fact that Turkey is an important nation in this area, following
closely the developments in this region." He adds: "However, these
reactions were not within a religious or ethnic context but within
a humanitarian context." Erdogan says: "Had we not dealt with this
issue from this perspective, our stand would not have been fair. If
some have appreciated and praised this stand of ours, it was due to
the fairness and humanitarian nature of our stand.
"Concerning the Middle East problems, we always listen to the
voice of our conscience and the reaction of the street. We take a
middle-of-the-road position. We have not tried to be a party to what
happened. If some accused us of standing by one side against the
other, we would say that we always stand in support of the truth,
and with the oppressed, without any hesitation.
"Weapons of mass destruction were used in Gaza and this is a fact.
Phosphorous bombs are mass destruction weapons. Can we see this and
remain silent? This will not be fair."
Erdogan says that Turkey has seen how the world rushed to stop the war
in Georgia, "and we were among those who contributed" to this effort
"but we failed to understand why the world waited for two weeks and
was a spectator during the war on Gaza without making any move,"
noting that "this was a regrettable stand that cannot be explained."
He adds that nine months have passed since the Gaza events and almost
seven month have passed since the donors conference was held in
Sharm al-Shaykh, but no part of the promised reconstruction process
has been implemented. The Gaza infrastructure totally collapsed and
so many promises were made to rebuild it but until now the building
materials are prevented from arriving in Gaza. Again I ask why the
West continues to be silent on this siege.
"Look at the contents of the Goldstone Report. Atrocities were
mentioned in the report, which the Human Rights Council adopted. These
are facts. These things are extremely serious and everyone must
pause and think about them. The United nations must shoulder its
responsibilities towards this report. The report should not meet
the same fate that hundreds of UN resolutions concerning Israel met
and remained unimplemented. Schools were bombed in Gaza - schools
belonging to the United Nations - and Hospitals. Hundreds of civilians
were killed and injured in this war. Some of them came to Turkey for
treatment and I visited them and talked to them and I have seen their
tragedies. I cannot remain silent after seeing what I have seen with
my own eyes.
"We have signed many agreements with Israel. While I am talking now,
I am not being hostile to Israel, but if we say that we are friends
in this region, we must respect our relationships.
"Until recently, Israel had been trusting Turkey and accepting its
mediations with Syria for the sake of peace. Suddenly, Turkey has
become a state that cannot be trusted. Then why did you trust us in
the past? This means that an important change has occurred in the
minds of the Israeli politicians. That is the problem. We hope that
we will overcome these differences for the sake of salvaging peace,
which has been delayed for so long."
Asked if this means that he will follow the developments concerning
the Goldstone Report at the United Nations to the end, he says:
"Naturally. No doubt about this. Those who are responsible for
this report must follow its development to the end in order to
have results." Asked if the United States is mediating, even if
unofficially, to reduce the tension between Turkey and Israel, he
says: "We are not talking about the possibility of severing legal
and official relations with Israel. We have relations and agreements
with Israel but we also should respect the desire of the people
and the average citizens. Our cancellation of the aerial military
manoeuvres with Israel was within this context, due to the Gaza
war. I represent the people and I have to listen to what the people
say. These manoeuvres are Turkish manoeuvres and Turkey is the side
that can decide who can join and participate in them. Nobody can impose
anything on us in this connection. In the past Israel participated
in these manoeuvres at our invitation, but now, due to the Gaza war,
we have decided not to invite it."
Asked if "the cancellation of the military manoeuvres between Turkey
and Israel was really a political response to the Gaza war or was it
a military response to the delay by Israel of the delivery of drones
that Turkey had bought from Israel," he replies: "No, no. This issue
had nothing to do with cancelling the manoeuvres. The purchase of
the drones and the delay in their delivery is an issue that is being
followed with legal circles. The delivery of the drones has been
delayed, and their delivery is long overdue. It is not a recent thing.
The Defence Ministry is following this issue."
Asked how he can criticize Israel so strongly and at the same time
meet with the Jewish lobby in the United States and "have good
relations" with it, Erdogan says he met with about 50 officials and
representatives of the Jewish groups and "I talked to them clearly
and frankly," adding that he told them: "If you trust us we will
tell the truth even if it is painful to you. Can anyone of you
condone the killing of 1,500 women and children with lethal mass
destruction weapons? How can you convince me? How will you justify
injuring over 5,000 civilians and the destroying schools and hospitals
and infrastructure? I told them that Israel has used its most lethal
weapons in a lopsided battle and these things cannot be justified or
explained at all. They did not provide any response to what I said."
Al-Sharif asks Erdogan why it is that every time a positive round
of negotiations between Iran and the West takes place, "we witness
negative developments that cast a shadow on these negotiations," such
as "the announcement about the new Iranian nuclear facility following
the 1 October negotiations and the recent bombings in southeastern
Iran, which Tehran said were backed by the United States and Britain."
He asks Erdogan what he will be taking with him to Iran, "especially
because you will be leaving Iran to the United States." Erdogan
says he will go first to Pakistan and then to Tehran. He adds: "The
Pakistani-Iranian relations are extremely important. Both countries
are suffering and facing some problems. Through your television,
I would like to offer my condolences to all the Iranians over the
victims they sustained in the Baluchistan bombing, which killed 40
Iranians. We are aware of the tragedies and injustices that terrorism
causes because regrettably we experienced it and we do not want others
to experience it."
Erdogan says that he "has offered condolences to President
Ahmadinezhad," and adds: "I oppose severing relations between Iran
and the West." He notes that "after our meeting at the UN Security
Council, it was announced that an International Atomic Energy Agency
[IAEA] delegation would leave for Iran on 25 October to inspect the
new Iranian nuclear facility, and that the delegation would submit
a report on this issue."
Erdogan adds: "Sometime back, fake reports were disseminated about
the Iranian nuclear activities and Al-Baradi'i declared that they were
fake and fabricated and had nothing to do with the IAEA. We will know
the facts of the new Iranian facility after 25 October." He says:
"We are against Iran having nuclear arms - not only Iran but all
states in the region. It is unfair and unacceptable for a state to
have nuclear arms in the region, and yet be ignored, while emphasis
is placed only on Iran. This is unfair. The entire region must be
purged of these weapons. The IAEA should expand its inspection to
include non-member countries."
He says: "Iran must continue its dialogue with the West because it
is the natural thing to do. No results can be reached without dialogue.
Normal relations must be established between Iran and Western
countries. As for imposing sanctions on Iran, the consequences of this
method is clear to all. Our stand on this issue is well-known." He
says that states that possess nuclear weapons must not ask Iran not
to try to have similar weapons.
Asked what Turkey is planning to do in the region, given the
improvement of its relations with Syria and Iraq, and if Turkey is
trying to revive the Ottoman history, Erdogan replies that these are
extremely important steps, especially because they include strategic
economic cooperation, which will ensure close relations among these
states. He adds: "On the one hand, we have established the Strategic
Cooperation Council with Syria, and on the other hand we started to
activate another cooperation council with Iraq." He says there will
be projects in the fields of education, health, trade, security,
military industrialization, transportation, agriculture and energy,
"and these will serve the interests of the three states but they will
not harm anyone."
He says: "Mutual investments will multiply and after bilateral
investments there will be trilateral investments, and this will no
doubt lead to greater coordination and cooperation on the political
level based on joint interests." He says the 21st century is the
age of openness and partnership and Iraq needs Syria and Turkey to
support its progress.
Asked about his future vision of these regional projects and if it
is possible to include Iran and Israel in such regional cooperation,
Erdogan says: "We are working on a similar agreement with Russia,
and I suggested this to Mr Putin during his visit to Ankara, and he
agreed." He says he hopes such an agreement will be signed in Moscow
shortly, and adds: "We will establish a joint strategic cooperation
council between Turkey and Russia. We also suggested the same thing to
Greece and we are thinking of including the Caucasus states in this."
Asked if this is an alternative to joining the EU, he replies: "These
projects have nothing whatever to do with the EU. The EU is a political
project," and adds: "we will present this strategic cooperation idea
to neighbouring EU member states such as Romania and Bulgaria," and
continues: "This will not be against the EU but it will perhaps pave
the way and make easier Turkey's entry into the EU in the future."
Asked why Turkey has been persistent in its efforts to join the
EU despite the successes that it realized in the Middle East and
"what the EU can possibly realize for Turkey," Erdogan replies:
"Turkey is a democratic and secular state and there are 27 members in
the EU. Our joining this group of states will strengthen our vision
and enhance our plans for the future." He says joining the EU will
increase Turkey's strength and it will not lose anything, adding that
"we are also colleagues of many EU states in NATO and in the group of
security and cooperation, and all these things should have speeded up
Turkey's membership of the EU, and adds: "It is regrettable that the
EU is not paying attention to these things. The EU should not place
obstacles to our entry. What is their justification? They say that
the population of Turkey is big and we say that this population will
increase the strength of the EU." He says the conditions of Turkey
are much better than the conditions of many EU members, and regrets
"statements by some leaders of the European states."
Erdogan says: "Only one state in the region can extend full support
for Iraq and realize the greatest amount of harmony and integration;
namely Turkey." He argues that Turkey will be the most important and
secure territory for a network to transfer the Iraqi oil to the world.
On the Kurdish issue, he says that some of the Kurds are members
of a peaceful opposition in Turkey and some are carrying up arms
and they are "promoting terrorism against Turkey." He says Turkey
is determined to confront them by all means because "resisting
terrorism is the simplest and most important right of the state,"
noting that the Turkish state respects any opposition party within its
democratic system. He says that the Kurdish rebels are being financed
by organizations abroad, noting that the United States and Europe
have some of these organizations. He adds that the United States
froze the accounts of three PKK leaders due to their involvement in
the drug trade. He says the European states are not cooperating with
Turkey in this connection.
Asked about the PKK Kurds who returned to Turkey, saying that they have
a message of peace, he says that this is the result of our project;
namely, the democratic openness, "but some are trying to distort what
we did," giving it other meanings.
On relations with Armenia and the Zurich protocol, he says the Turkish
government has sent the protocol to the speaker of Parliament and they
will begin working on it, noting that Turkey awaits support from the
Minsk group, which is working on a solution for the Nagorno Karabakh
issue. He adds: "Without efforts by the Minsk group to solve the
dispute between Armenia and Azerbaijan, it would be very difficult
for us to make any progress on the protocol. We have sent the foreign
minister and his adviser to inform our Azeri brothers of the situation
and put them in the picture before we sign the protocol."
Asked in conclusion if he does not believe that President Obama is
incapable of fulfilling the promises he made to activate the middle
East peace process and that he looks timid vis-a-vis the new Israeli
government, Erdogan replies: "It is not easy to realize the promises
of the US President. He has been president for only 10 months and he
is trying to resolve chronic problems."
Erdogan says he will leave Iran for the United States and will meet
with President Obama and talk to him on these issues. He adds: "You are
aware that President Obama has won the Nobel peace prize. Giving him
this prize at such an early date is significant. We all know how and
when an official wins the Nobel peace prize. One of the most important
points that I will emphasize during my Washington visit will be the
need for Washington to continue using its weight and determination to
activate the Middle East peace process without any hesitation, retreat,
or slackness." He adds: "We have not lost our hope for peace yet. I
expect that the US President will fulfil his promises and I hope that
he will be as I asked him to be; namely, the voice of the oppressed
and wronged people in this world. I believe that he has given important
promises in his speeches in Cairo and Ankara and he must fulfil them."