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DER SPIEGEL: THE WORLD MUST RESPOND. SERZH SARGSYAN ON HISTORICAL JUSTICE AND ANKARA'S PROPOSAL
Tert.am
Full text of President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan's interview with
German weekly Der Spiegel follows:
Der Spiegel: In his interview with Der Spiegel, speaking about the
Genocide which had taken place during World War I, Turkish Prime
Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stated that "there can be no talk of
genocide." Why cannot your neighboring country come to terms with
its own past?
Sargsyan: Recently another statement was made that the Turks couldn't
have possibly committed the Genocide and the Turkish history is "bright
and clear as the sun". The Turks are opposed to the definition of
the event as Genocide. However, Ankara is not the one to decide on
this issue.
Der Spiegel: Now Erdogan is even threatening to expel thousands of
Armenians illegally residing in Turkey.
Sargsyan: Unacceptable statements such as that one stir up in our
nation the memories of the Genocide. Unfortunately, such statements
articulated by the Turkish politicians come as no surprise to me.
Der Spiegel: How should the international community respond?
Sargsyan: The international community must respond resolutely. The
US, Europe, as well as Germany, all those countries that have been
involved in this process of Armenian-Turkish rapprochement should
unequivocally state their position. Had all the states recognized
the Armenian Genocide by now, the Turks wouldn't talk that way. It is
however inspiring that many young people in Turkey stood up against
that statement. A new generation is growing in Turkey and the political
leadership of that country should reckon with its opinion.
Der Spiegel: Turkey accuses you of maintaining a tough position on
setting up a bilateral commission of historians. Why do you oppose
the creation of such a commission?
Sargsyan: How can such a commission work impartially if in Turkey
people are persecuted and tried for a criminal offence if they use
the very term Genocide? For Ankara it is important to protract the
process of decision-making indefinitely so that when parliaments or
governments of other countries undertake the adoption of aresolution
on the Genocide recognition, they can say, "don't meddle in, these
issues are being sorted out by our historians." Creation of such a
commission would have meant casting doubt on the veracity of the
Genocide perpetrated against our people. It is unacceptable. Had
Turkey admitted its guilt, the creation of the commission would have
been justified. In that case the scholars could have studied jointly
the causes triggering that tragedy.
Der Spiegel: The Genocide took place 95 years ago. Why its recognition
is so important for Armenia?
Sargsyan: It is a matter of historical justice and it is also a matter
of our national security. The best way to prevent the repetition of
such horrendous events is to condemn them unambiguously.
Der Spiegel: From the windows of your office one can see the symbol of
Armenia - Mount Ararat. Today, it is on the other side of the border -
unreachable. Turkey is afraid of territorial and retribution claims.
Do you want Ararat back?
Sargsyan: Nobody can take it away from us: Ararat is in our hearts. In
every Armenian home, in every corner of the world you will find the
image of Mount Ararat. I believe that the time will come when Ararat
instead of being the symbol of divide will become the symbol of
common understanding between our two nations. However, I would like
to clarify the following: no official in Armenia has ever presented
any territorial claims to Turkey. The Turks ascribe such claims to
us themselves, probably since they have a sense of guilt?
Der Spiegel: Your borders with Turkey and Azerbaijan are closed; Iran
and Georgia are difficult neighbors. Won't it be a better trade-off
to get a breakthrough in that isolation instead of quarrelling
indefinitely with Turkey about the Genocide?
Sargsyan: We don't link the Genocide recognition to the opening
of borders. And it is not our fault that the rapprochement is not
getting through.
Der Spiegel: Turkey wants to link the opening of the border with the
progress in the Nagorno Karabakh conflict resolution. The Armenians
held up in the war unleashed on that territory towards which Azerbaijan
have been laying claims since the break up of the Soviet Union.
Sargsyan: Turkey constantly wants us to make concessions, but it is
impossible. The most vital issue is the implementation by the people
of Nagorno Karabakh of its right to self-determination.
If Azerbaijan recognizes the independence of Nagorno Karabakh, I
believe the issue can be solved in a matter of hours. Unfortunately,
they still believe that they should bring Nagorno Karabakh back,
while returning Nagorno Karabakh back under the control of Azerbaijan
would mean that before long Nagorno Karabakh will be rid of all its
Armenian population.
Der Spiegel: What kind of solution would you propose?
Sargsyan: Why the republics of the former Yugoslavia had been able
to become independent? Why, then, should Nagorno Karabakh be denied
the same rights? Is it just because Azerbaijan has got some oil and
gas and a patron like Turkey? We cannot consider it fair.
Tert.am
Full text of President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan's interview with
German weekly Der Spiegel follows:
Der Spiegel: In his interview with Der Spiegel, speaking about the
Genocide which had taken place during World War I, Turkish Prime
Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stated that "there can be no talk of
genocide." Why cannot your neighboring country come to terms with
its own past?
Sargsyan: Recently another statement was made that the Turks couldn't
have possibly committed the Genocide and the Turkish history is "bright
and clear as the sun". The Turks are opposed to the definition of
the event as Genocide. However, Ankara is not the one to decide on
this issue.
Der Spiegel: Now Erdogan is even threatening to expel thousands of
Armenians illegally residing in Turkey.
Sargsyan: Unacceptable statements such as that one stir up in our
nation the memories of the Genocide. Unfortunately, such statements
articulated by the Turkish politicians come as no surprise to me.
Der Spiegel: How should the international community respond?
Sargsyan: The international community must respond resolutely. The
US, Europe, as well as Germany, all those countries that have been
involved in this process of Armenian-Turkish rapprochement should
unequivocally state their position. Had all the states recognized
the Armenian Genocide by now, the Turks wouldn't talk that way. It is
however inspiring that many young people in Turkey stood up against
that statement. A new generation is growing in Turkey and the political
leadership of that country should reckon with its opinion.
Der Spiegel: Turkey accuses you of maintaining a tough position on
setting up a bilateral commission of historians. Why do you oppose
the creation of such a commission?
Sargsyan: How can such a commission work impartially if in Turkey
people are persecuted and tried for a criminal offence if they use
the very term Genocide? For Ankara it is important to protract the
process of decision-making indefinitely so that when parliaments or
governments of other countries undertake the adoption of aresolution
on the Genocide recognition, they can say, "don't meddle in, these
issues are being sorted out by our historians." Creation of such a
commission would have meant casting doubt on the veracity of the
Genocide perpetrated against our people. It is unacceptable. Had
Turkey admitted its guilt, the creation of the commission would have
been justified. In that case the scholars could have studied jointly
the causes triggering that tragedy.
Der Spiegel: The Genocide took place 95 years ago. Why its recognition
is so important for Armenia?
Sargsyan: It is a matter of historical justice and it is also a matter
of our national security. The best way to prevent the repetition of
such horrendous events is to condemn them unambiguously.
Der Spiegel: From the windows of your office one can see the symbol of
Armenia - Mount Ararat. Today, it is on the other side of the border -
unreachable. Turkey is afraid of territorial and retribution claims.
Do you want Ararat back?
Sargsyan: Nobody can take it away from us: Ararat is in our hearts. In
every Armenian home, in every corner of the world you will find the
image of Mount Ararat. I believe that the time will come when Ararat
instead of being the symbol of divide will become the symbol of
common understanding between our two nations. However, I would like
to clarify the following: no official in Armenia has ever presented
any territorial claims to Turkey. The Turks ascribe such claims to
us themselves, probably since they have a sense of guilt?
Der Spiegel: Your borders with Turkey and Azerbaijan are closed; Iran
and Georgia are difficult neighbors. Won't it be a better trade-off
to get a breakthrough in that isolation instead of quarrelling
indefinitely with Turkey about the Genocide?
Sargsyan: We don't link the Genocide recognition to the opening
of borders. And it is not our fault that the rapprochement is not
getting through.
Der Spiegel: Turkey wants to link the opening of the border with the
progress in the Nagorno Karabakh conflict resolution. The Armenians
held up in the war unleashed on that territory towards which Azerbaijan
have been laying claims since the break up of the Soviet Union.
Sargsyan: Turkey constantly wants us to make concessions, but it is
impossible. The most vital issue is the implementation by the people
of Nagorno Karabakh of its right to self-determination.
If Azerbaijan recognizes the independence of Nagorno Karabakh, I
believe the issue can be solved in a matter of hours. Unfortunately,
they still believe that they should bring Nagorno Karabakh back,
while returning Nagorno Karabakh back under the control of Azerbaijan
would mean that before long Nagorno Karabakh will be rid of all its
Armenian population.
Der Spiegel: What kind of solution would you propose?
Sargsyan: Why the republics of the former Yugoslavia had been able
to become independent? Why, then, should Nagorno Karabakh be denied
the same rights? Is it just because Azerbaijan has got some oil and
gas and a patron like Turkey? We cannot consider it fair.