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TURKEY SKILLFULLY USED ARMENIAN-TURKISH PROCESS IN ITS FAVOR
Aram Araratyan
ArmInfo
2010-12-22 15:01:00
Interview with Richard Hovhannisian, well-known American historian
of Armenian origin, Professor of UCLA (University of California,
Los Angeles)
Mr.Hovhannisyan, you have repeatedly said that you don't share
the view that the international campaign for the recognition of the
Armenian Genocide is over. Will it end when the Genocide is recognized
by Turkey?
Yes, it will. Sometimes this policy seems to be over and it's time
to pay the compensation, however, this is not so. Now Ankara is
conducting a consistent policy of non-recognition and oblivion of the
Genocide. Today Turkey has a very strong lobby in the United States,
which operates very actively and has a lot more funds than we have,
as many large companies present money to them. At the same time,
it is necessary to think about what if Turkey recognizes the fact of
the Armenian Genocide some day. I wonder if Armenia's leadership has
a national program on this, or what demands Armenia will have in that
case. I think such a program should be worked out.
Which of the aspects of the Armenian Genocide problem is the most
important: political, moral-psychological, territorial, compensation?
If Turkey recognizes Armenian genocide, the problem of moral and
material compensation payment will arise. Besides the material
compensation to the offsprings of the Armenian genocide victims,
there are many other aspects. For instance, there are hundreds if not
thousands former Armenian organizations, cultural values, monuments,
including the ruined ones, in Turkey, which should be returned to the
Armenian nation. I think that the churches should be returned not to
the authorities of Armenia but to the Patriarch's office. There are
many such problems. Let the Turks not distort their history any more
and speak the truth; let them build the monuments to the memory of
innocent victims of the Genocide. This will also be one of the forms
of compensation by Turkey.
What do you think about Armenia's efforts to make the fact of the
Armenian Genocide known to the world? Are they doing their best to
make the truth generally known?
We can make a number of concessions to Turks, but not at the expense
of our historical memory. Armenians should conduct a "clever"
policy, have and work out various programs in this sphere. "Football
diplomacy" was certainly a good attempt to improve relations with
Turkey, but the question is where this policy leads us and at what
price. The Armenian-Turkish Protocols had an item on creation of a
commission of historians. The Turks stated that one should not use the
expression "Armenian Genocide" before the commission takes the final
decision. Therefore, we should deeply analyze our steps and should
not yield our historical memory. A compromise on a number of factors
is possible, but not at the expense of Armenia's historical memory.
As a historian and one of the biggest experts in this field, do you
believe that Turkey will ever recognize the Armenian Genocide?
Turkey will recognize the Armenian Genocide if it realizes that this
meets its interests. This may also happen in case the superpowers -
the USA and Russia - exert enough pressure on Ankara and persuade it
to wash off the black spot. They should make Turkey understand that
if the latter really wants to occupy a worthy place in the modern
system of international relations as a civilized partner, it should
raise the problem of recognition of the Armenian Genocide. I do not
know whether this approach may have success, but at the same time one
should never say never. Some twenty years ago I did not think that some
Turkish expert or historian would openly say that he would recognize
the fact of the Armenian Genocide, but I was mistaken. There are such
scientists today and they are not few. Some of them do not openly use
the term "Armenian Genocide", but their attitude and words demonstrate
that they recognize this fact. Probably, if the number of such persons
in Turkey increases, something will change inside that country.
At the same time, nationalist and racist moods are still strong in
Turkey. This is proved by one of the recent incidents in Turkey when
the fans of Bursaspor, a Turkish football club, yelled the following
slogan with reference to Besiktas, another Turkish football squad,
managed among others by an Armenian: "Armenian dogs are defending
Besiktas." But despite such slogans the Armenians should continue their
efforts to persuade Turkey into recognizing the Armenian Genocide.
Does the Armenian-Turkish rapprochement process fit into the logic
of the Armenian Genocide international recognition campaign? It is
not a secret that the Armenian Diaspora objects to this process. Can
improved relations with Armenia stimulate Turkey to recognize the
Armenian Genocide?
Armenia should by all means normalize its relations with Turkey. As
regards the issue of the Armenian Genocide, the expert thinks that
improvement of relations between Yerevan and Ankara may contribute
to Turkey's recognition of this crime. But this does not concern
the current Turkish political regime, which very skillfully used
the Armenian- Turkish process, first of all, for indirect and final
recognition of the bilateral border, which means Armenia's refusal
from territorial claims. Secondly, the consent to creation of a
commission of historians cast doubt on the fact of the Armenian
Genocide", he said and pointed out the Karabakh problem as well,
which is present indirectly. Therefore, I think one should have deeply
analyzed the situation before taking that step. Armenia and Turkey
are neighboring countries and should look for the ways to normalize
their relations. When I travel in Western Armenia, I feel homey, as we
are alike in many issues, first and foremost, cultural and social ones.
So, it turns out that the rapprochement process was good for Turkey
only and what has Armenia got?
Unfortunately, the Armenian party has got nothing from the
Armenian-Turkish process. Moreover, I think that Turks will use
the Armenian-Turkish process to demonstrate to the whole world that
the want and are ready to continue the process, but we, Armenians,
do not want it. On the other hand, this may be a good lesson to us.
From: A. Papazian
Aram Araratyan
ArmInfo
2010-12-22 15:01:00
Interview with Richard Hovhannisian, well-known American historian
of Armenian origin, Professor of UCLA (University of California,
Los Angeles)
Mr.Hovhannisyan, you have repeatedly said that you don't share
the view that the international campaign for the recognition of the
Armenian Genocide is over. Will it end when the Genocide is recognized
by Turkey?
Yes, it will. Sometimes this policy seems to be over and it's time
to pay the compensation, however, this is not so. Now Ankara is
conducting a consistent policy of non-recognition and oblivion of the
Genocide. Today Turkey has a very strong lobby in the United States,
which operates very actively and has a lot more funds than we have,
as many large companies present money to them. At the same time,
it is necessary to think about what if Turkey recognizes the fact of
the Armenian Genocide some day. I wonder if Armenia's leadership has
a national program on this, or what demands Armenia will have in that
case. I think such a program should be worked out.
Which of the aspects of the Armenian Genocide problem is the most
important: political, moral-psychological, territorial, compensation?
If Turkey recognizes Armenian genocide, the problem of moral and
material compensation payment will arise. Besides the material
compensation to the offsprings of the Armenian genocide victims,
there are many other aspects. For instance, there are hundreds if not
thousands former Armenian organizations, cultural values, monuments,
including the ruined ones, in Turkey, which should be returned to the
Armenian nation. I think that the churches should be returned not to
the authorities of Armenia but to the Patriarch's office. There are
many such problems. Let the Turks not distort their history any more
and speak the truth; let them build the monuments to the memory of
innocent victims of the Genocide. This will also be one of the forms
of compensation by Turkey.
What do you think about Armenia's efforts to make the fact of the
Armenian Genocide known to the world? Are they doing their best to
make the truth generally known?
We can make a number of concessions to Turks, but not at the expense
of our historical memory. Armenians should conduct a "clever"
policy, have and work out various programs in this sphere. "Football
diplomacy" was certainly a good attempt to improve relations with
Turkey, but the question is where this policy leads us and at what
price. The Armenian-Turkish Protocols had an item on creation of a
commission of historians. The Turks stated that one should not use the
expression "Armenian Genocide" before the commission takes the final
decision. Therefore, we should deeply analyze our steps and should
not yield our historical memory. A compromise on a number of factors
is possible, but not at the expense of Armenia's historical memory.
As a historian and one of the biggest experts in this field, do you
believe that Turkey will ever recognize the Armenian Genocide?
Turkey will recognize the Armenian Genocide if it realizes that this
meets its interests. This may also happen in case the superpowers -
the USA and Russia - exert enough pressure on Ankara and persuade it
to wash off the black spot. They should make Turkey understand that
if the latter really wants to occupy a worthy place in the modern
system of international relations as a civilized partner, it should
raise the problem of recognition of the Armenian Genocide. I do not
know whether this approach may have success, but at the same time one
should never say never. Some twenty years ago I did not think that some
Turkish expert or historian would openly say that he would recognize
the fact of the Armenian Genocide, but I was mistaken. There are such
scientists today and they are not few. Some of them do not openly use
the term "Armenian Genocide", but their attitude and words demonstrate
that they recognize this fact. Probably, if the number of such persons
in Turkey increases, something will change inside that country.
At the same time, nationalist and racist moods are still strong in
Turkey. This is proved by one of the recent incidents in Turkey when
the fans of Bursaspor, a Turkish football club, yelled the following
slogan with reference to Besiktas, another Turkish football squad,
managed among others by an Armenian: "Armenian dogs are defending
Besiktas." But despite such slogans the Armenians should continue their
efforts to persuade Turkey into recognizing the Armenian Genocide.
Does the Armenian-Turkish rapprochement process fit into the logic
of the Armenian Genocide international recognition campaign? It is
not a secret that the Armenian Diaspora objects to this process. Can
improved relations with Armenia stimulate Turkey to recognize the
Armenian Genocide?
Armenia should by all means normalize its relations with Turkey. As
regards the issue of the Armenian Genocide, the expert thinks that
improvement of relations between Yerevan and Ankara may contribute
to Turkey's recognition of this crime. But this does not concern
the current Turkish political regime, which very skillfully used
the Armenian- Turkish process, first of all, for indirect and final
recognition of the bilateral border, which means Armenia's refusal
from territorial claims. Secondly, the consent to creation of a
commission of historians cast doubt on the fact of the Armenian
Genocide", he said and pointed out the Karabakh problem as well,
which is present indirectly. Therefore, I think one should have deeply
analyzed the situation before taking that step. Armenia and Turkey
are neighboring countries and should look for the ways to normalize
their relations. When I travel in Western Armenia, I feel homey, as we
are alike in many issues, first and foremost, cultural and social ones.
So, it turns out that the rapprochement process was good for Turkey
only and what has Armenia got?
Unfortunately, the Armenian party has got nothing from the
Armenian-Turkish process. Moreover, I think that Turks will use
the Armenian-Turkish process to demonstrate to the whole world that
the want and are ready to continue the process, but we, Armenians,
do not want it. On the other hand, this may be a good lesson to us.
From: A. Papazian