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ARMENIA HAS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED THE 'AMERICAN' PROGRAM ON RELATIONS WITH TURKEY, AND IT IS HIGH TIME TO DEMAND MONEY AND SECURITY FROM THE USA
ArmInfo
2010-03-30 13:23:00
Interview with Igor Muradyan, one of the initiators and leaders of
the Karabakh Movement of 1988, well-known analyst
President of Armenia has recently visited Syria. What makes that
country and the Near East interesting to Armenia taking into account
Turkey's interest in relations with Syria?
Recently in the Great Britain I have met with experts engaged in
Turkey's policy. Engagement of British analytical experts dealing with
Turkey and its policy in the Near East is going at full drive in the
Great Britain, where there are developed analytical communities. This
engagement is very serious and it has been going on for a long time.
The engagement is like a sinusoid, i.e. it depends on the situation.
The Turkish government is currently engaging universities in the Great
Britain. These people protecting Turkish interests were trying to
explain to me that the Arab Near East misses Turkey, that Arabs dream
of Turkey's return to the region to regulate the relations there. That
is to say, the western brain trusts started using Turkey as extenders
of its regional policy. At the same time there is no big success in
this engagement as these experts are not so much trusted because they
failed to reach the most important level of consultations with their
governments in London and Washington. Turkey is interested in not
only disputing such cute issues as Armenian, Cyprian and the Aegean
one, but also the issues related to long-term range of strategy,
particularly, in the Near East. Moreover, the Arab policy is quite
original as they do not want to leave the borders of their region. In
other regions Arabs have asymmetrical forces as radical groups,
which are very often connected with their governments.
What foreign policy concept does Armenia need in the relations with
the Arab world?
Organization of the Islamic Conference [OIC] is not going to support
Azerbaijan and Turkey in the Karabakh conflict settlement. In such a
situation the course taken by Armenia in its relations with the Arab
world, but which has not been always strictly implemented, remains
very much important. It is - to prevent isolation of our country by
the Islamic world. Because of the fact that our main displeasure in
the Islamic world is connected with the two states closely connected
with Israel and the USA, we did not have great danger earlier. The two
states of OIC - Syria and Iran have always sabotaged adoption of the
anti-Armenian resolution by the OIC. Every time when OIC used to adopt
a resolution on Karabakh, and Turkey together with Azerbaijan failed
to reach their goals, I got an impression that Libya, Saudi Arabia,
Jordan and other influential countries of the Arab world were pleased
with such a position of Syria and Iran. It happened since they also
did not want to turn OIC into a serving organization which serves to
the interests of Turkey and Azerbaijan.
OIC has repeatedly condemned the so-called "occupation of Azerbaijan's
territories..."
Yes, it condemned, but there are no recommendations of specific
actions, whereas Baku and Ankara insisted just on that. I know that
the initial formula of OIC's resolutions contained also such points,
but I also know that those points have never been included in the
final formula.
It is clear that such countries of Organization of the Islamic
Conference (OIC) as Indonesia and Morocco do not care for the
situation in the Caucasus, unlike the Crescent countries, which are
not interested in reinforcement of positions of Turkey and Azerbaijan.
One of the leading Lebanese young politicians told me personally that
actually, Lebanon and Syria are anti-Azerbaijani states.
Does it explain their unwillingness to strengthen the positions of
Israel's partner Turkey in the region?
Well, Turkey and Azerbaijan have not yet got rig of their image of
Israel's partners. This must be taken into account irrespective of
their claims of the opposite.
Did Erdogan's attacks on Israel aim to overcome the Arab world's
non-confidence in Ankara?
Sure! Israeli defense minister has recently paid a visit to Turkey,
and the cooperation in the military-technical sphere between them is
successfully going on as well as delivery of Israeli weapons.
Does Turkey strive to strengthen its positions in the Near East to
become more attractive for Europe as a new promoter of European ideas
in the East?
Ankara really has such a fundamental goal. Against the background of
Ankara's strivings, the matter concerns not only the Arab world, but
also the whole Middle East, Iran, the Balkans, the Caucasus, Central
Asia, and even some regions in Russia. Turks hope that reinforcement
of their positions in these regions will give them big opportunities
to introduce themselves in Europe as a more influential country,
and this is of much significance. Turkey has already strengthened its
positions and is striving for big success, at the same time, however,
it has no chances to join the European Union.
What is the role of the Armenian Cause in that process?
There will be various impulses around the Armenian Cause also in the
future, as the Armenian Cause is a summary of the Western community's
actions and interests in pressing and controlling Turkey. Now they
are trying to connect also Russia to this matrix, and I am sure
that Europeans are engaged in that process, first and foremost. When
visiting Istanbul in April 2009 Obama said that Turkey should be in
the European Union, having thereby underlined the USA's aspirations
to promote Turkey to the European Union. That is to say, Americans
have finally realized that everything is over, and the beginning of
the end started over Bush Jr.'s term in office. Obama is extremely
interested in the regional policy of controlling Turkey. Obama can
resolve this problem only in an alliance with Europeans and recruit
Russia with Sarkozy's help. In this default conspiracy Europe and
the USA can deliver weapon to Turkey as much as they wish, this will
not change anything but only become an additional tool to restrain
Ankara's ambitions.
In addition, the USA undoubtedly continues looking for an alternative
to Incirlik. Consequently, it is beneficial and possible for nobody
to close the Armenian Cause.
Is it favorable for the USA to recognize the genocide in such
situation?
The USA will be able to influence Turkey and make it observe the rules
of the game only by recognizing the Armenian Genocide and making the
Armenian Cause open.
However, the USA should not do that hastily since the process is
underway and 43 States have already recognized the Genocide, alongside
with many other organizations. Therefore, the USA has organized this
global show around recognition of the Armenian genocide involving
almost all the leading western mass media. I am sure that a parade of
recognitions is expected in Europe, for everyone is well aware there
that Washington warns them of the threat of 20 million of Turkish
emigrants. Hereby, Europe will create a situation when Turkey will
have nowhere to retreat. "In addition, the Europeans hope that Turkey
will recognize Genocide, which will allow launching its fragmentation.
The project of Turkey's fragmentation still exists, like the project
of achieving communism till 1980 under N. Khrushchev.
What has the USA gained having initiated the Armenian-Turkish process?
Having initiated the Armenian-Turkish process the USA reached much
as the results of settlement led the relations between Armenia and
Turkey to the disgusting state. Therefore, it is impossible to hope
for intrusion of Turkey to the Caucasus. Moreover, a distance has
appeared between Turkey and Azerbaijan, which the Americans were
dreamed of long ago. In Baku they are well aware that Turks do not
open the border not because of Karabakh but because of the fact that
Ankara is waiting for the assurance from the West to end the Armenian
Cause. As for the West, it demands additional compromises from Turkey
as Turkey's compromises on Karabakh and the border are not enough.
Worsening of the Armenian-Turkish relations force Russia to make
extra efforts to ensure Armenia's security, by this casting doubt on
creation of even an illusion of an alliance between Moscow and Ankara.
The USA wants very much Turkey to leave the Middle East region,
but the Turkish-Israeli partnership hinders it. By involving the
Jewish lobby of the USA in the everyday game in a delicate way the
Americans have already driven a wedge between Turkey and Israel. Thus,
an Armenian factor plays a part even where it is hard to imagine. The
most important is that thanks to the Armenian issue an alliance has
been already refused using the Turkish factor against Europe. For this
reason, at present Americans started using it in another way like a
means of unification against general threat in the face of Turkey.
What are the prospects of the NKR against the geopolitical background
you have described?
Neither the USA, nor China or the Arab world and Iran are interested
in weakening Armenia. It is clear to everyone that the Karabakh
conflict settlement on the basis of the Madrid Principles will destroy
Armenia's sovereignty and make us absolutely incapable of defense. Now
that Armenia has implemented the whole program on relations with
Turkey proposed by Americans, it will be reasonable for us to demand
then to pay for this with ordinary, mutually complementary things -
money and security. In the case of Armenia and Karabakh, security is
determined first and foremost by remoteness of trenches of the first
resistance line from Armenia. That is why Armenia should take this
into account, demanding new security guarantees from Americans. As
regards the prospects of the Karabakh conflict settlement, they
should be considered against the background of appearance of new
non-recognized states, for instance, Kosovo.
ArmInfo
2010-03-30 13:23:00
Interview with Igor Muradyan, one of the initiators and leaders of
the Karabakh Movement of 1988, well-known analyst
President of Armenia has recently visited Syria. What makes that
country and the Near East interesting to Armenia taking into account
Turkey's interest in relations with Syria?
Recently in the Great Britain I have met with experts engaged in
Turkey's policy. Engagement of British analytical experts dealing with
Turkey and its policy in the Near East is going at full drive in the
Great Britain, where there are developed analytical communities. This
engagement is very serious and it has been going on for a long time.
The engagement is like a sinusoid, i.e. it depends on the situation.
The Turkish government is currently engaging universities in the Great
Britain. These people protecting Turkish interests were trying to
explain to me that the Arab Near East misses Turkey, that Arabs dream
of Turkey's return to the region to regulate the relations there. That
is to say, the western brain trusts started using Turkey as extenders
of its regional policy. At the same time there is no big success in
this engagement as these experts are not so much trusted because they
failed to reach the most important level of consultations with their
governments in London and Washington. Turkey is interested in not
only disputing such cute issues as Armenian, Cyprian and the Aegean
one, but also the issues related to long-term range of strategy,
particularly, in the Near East. Moreover, the Arab policy is quite
original as they do not want to leave the borders of their region. In
other regions Arabs have asymmetrical forces as radical groups,
which are very often connected with their governments.
What foreign policy concept does Armenia need in the relations with
the Arab world?
Organization of the Islamic Conference [OIC] is not going to support
Azerbaijan and Turkey in the Karabakh conflict settlement. In such a
situation the course taken by Armenia in its relations with the Arab
world, but which has not been always strictly implemented, remains
very much important. It is - to prevent isolation of our country by
the Islamic world. Because of the fact that our main displeasure in
the Islamic world is connected with the two states closely connected
with Israel and the USA, we did not have great danger earlier. The two
states of OIC - Syria and Iran have always sabotaged adoption of the
anti-Armenian resolution by the OIC. Every time when OIC used to adopt
a resolution on Karabakh, and Turkey together with Azerbaijan failed
to reach their goals, I got an impression that Libya, Saudi Arabia,
Jordan and other influential countries of the Arab world were pleased
with such a position of Syria and Iran. It happened since they also
did not want to turn OIC into a serving organization which serves to
the interests of Turkey and Azerbaijan.
OIC has repeatedly condemned the so-called "occupation of Azerbaijan's
territories..."
Yes, it condemned, but there are no recommendations of specific
actions, whereas Baku and Ankara insisted just on that. I know that
the initial formula of OIC's resolutions contained also such points,
but I also know that those points have never been included in the
final formula.
It is clear that such countries of Organization of the Islamic
Conference (OIC) as Indonesia and Morocco do not care for the
situation in the Caucasus, unlike the Crescent countries, which are
not interested in reinforcement of positions of Turkey and Azerbaijan.
One of the leading Lebanese young politicians told me personally that
actually, Lebanon and Syria are anti-Azerbaijani states.
Does it explain their unwillingness to strengthen the positions of
Israel's partner Turkey in the region?
Well, Turkey and Azerbaijan have not yet got rig of their image of
Israel's partners. This must be taken into account irrespective of
their claims of the opposite.
Did Erdogan's attacks on Israel aim to overcome the Arab world's
non-confidence in Ankara?
Sure! Israeli defense minister has recently paid a visit to Turkey,
and the cooperation in the military-technical sphere between them is
successfully going on as well as delivery of Israeli weapons.
Does Turkey strive to strengthen its positions in the Near East to
become more attractive for Europe as a new promoter of European ideas
in the East?
Ankara really has such a fundamental goal. Against the background of
Ankara's strivings, the matter concerns not only the Arab world, but
also the whole Middle East, Iran, the Balkans, the Caucasus, Central
Asia, and even some regions in Russia. Turks hope that reinforcement
of their positions in these regions will give them big opportunities
to introduce themselves in Europe as a more influential country,
and this is of much significance. Turkey has already strengthened its
positions and is striving for big success, at the same time, however,
it has no chances to join the European Union.
What is the role of the Armenian Cause in that process?
There will be various impulses around the Armenian Cause also in the
future, as the Armenian Cause is a summary of the Western community's
actions and interests in pressing and controlling Turkey. Now they
are trying to connect also Russia to this matrix, and I am sure
that Europeans are engaged in that process, first and foremost. When
visiting Istanbul in April 2009 Obama said that Turkey should be in
the European Union, having thereby underlined the USA's aspirations
to promote Turkey to the European Union. That is to say, Americans
have finally realized that everything is over, and the beginning of
the end started over Bush Jr.'s term in office. Obama is extremely
interested in the regional policy of controlling Turkey. Obama can
resolve this problem only in an alliance with Europeans and recruit
Russia with Sarkozy's help. In this default conspiracy Europe and
the USA can deliver weapon to Turkey as much as they wish, this will
not change anything but only become an additional tool to restrain
Ankara's ambitions.
In addition, the USA undoubtedly continues looking for an alternative
to Incirlik. Consequently, it is beneficial and possible for nobody
to close the Armenian Cause.
Is it favorable for the USA to recognize the genocide in such
situation?
The USA will be able to influence Turkey and make it observe the rules
of the game only by recognizing the Armenian Genocide and making the
Armenian Cause open.
However, the USA should not do that hastily since the process is
underway and 43 States have already recognized the Genocide, alongside
with many other organizations. Therefore, the USA has organized this
global show around recognition of the Armenian genocide involving
almost all the leading western mass media. I am sure that a parade of
recognitions is expected in Europe, for everyone is well aware there
that Washington warns them of the threat of 20 million of Turkish
emigrants. Hereby, Europe will create a situation when Turkey will
have nowhere to retreat. "In addition, the Europeans hope that Turkey
will recognize Genocide, which will allow launching its fragmentation.
The project of Turkey's fragmentation still exists, like the project
of achieving communism till 1980 under N. Khrushchev.
What has the USA gained having initiated the Armenian-Turkish process?
Having initiated the Armenian-Turkish process the USA reached much
as the results of settlement led the relations between Armenia and
Turkey to the disgusting state. Therefore, it is impossible to hope
for intrusion of Turkey to the Caucasus. Moreover, a distance has
appeared between Turkey and Azerbaijan, which the Americans were
dreamed of long ago. In Baku they are well aware that Turks do not
open the border not because of Karabakh but because of the fact that
Ankara is waiting for the assurance from the West to end the Armenian
Cause. As for the West, it demands additional compromises from Turkey
as Turkey's compromises on Karabakh and the border are not enough.
Worsening of the Armenian-Turkish relations force Russia to make
extra efforts to ensure Armenia's security, by this casting doubt on
creation of even an illusion of an alliance between Moscow and Ankara.
The USA wants very much Turkey to leave the Middle East region,
but the Turkish-Israeli partnership hinders it. By involving the
Jewish lobby of the USA in the everyday game in a delicate way the
Americans have already driven a wedge between Turkey and Israel. Thus,
an Armenian factor plays a part even where it is hard to imagine. The
most important is that thanks to the Armenian issue an alliance has
been already refused using the Turkish factor against Europe. For this
reason, at present Americans started using it in another way like a
means of unification against general threat in the face of Turkey.
What are the prospects of the NKR against the geopolitical background
you have described?
Neither the USA, nor China or the Arab world and Iran are interested
in weakening Armenia. It is clear to everyone that the Karabakh
conflict settlement on the basis of the Madrid Principles will destroy
Armenia's sovereignty and make us absolutely incapable of defense. Now
that Armenia has implemented the whole program on relations with
Turkey proposed by Americans, it will be reasonable for us to demand
then to pay for this with ordinary, mutually complementary things -
money and security. In the case of Armenia and Karabakh, security is
determined first and foremost by remoteness of trenches of the first
resistance line from Armenia. That is why Armenia should take this
into account, demanding new security guarantees from Americans. As
regards the prospects of the Karabakh conflict settlement, they
should be considered against the background of appearance of new
non-recognized states, for instance, Kosovo.