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DIALOGUE BETWEEN YEREVAN AND TEL AVIV SHOULD NOT DEPEND ON AZERI-ISRAELI OR ARMENIAN-IRANIAN RELATIONS
Aram Araratyan
ArmInfo
2010-05-04 16:08:00
Interview of Artak Grigoryan, member of the Republican Party of Armenia
Board, expert for Armenian-Israeli relations, with ArmInfo news agency
Mr. Grigoryan, the Israeli Knesset has recently decided to include
the issue of the Armenian Genocide recognition in the agenda. How
much probably will the parliament vote "for", taking into account
the current geopolitical situation?
Inclusion of this issue in the Knesset agenda was not unexpected;
however, its possible discussion by the Israeli parliament will really
be unexpected. I suppose the fact that, unlike the past few years,
more pro-Armenian statements have been made over the debates, can be
considered progress. Moreover, Speaker of the Knesset Reuven Rivlin,
who abstained from voting over the previous years, this time voted
for including the Armenian Genocide issue in the Knesset agenda. We
have no serious lobby in that country, and one of the key reasons
is the lack of Armenian embassy in Israel. In addition, Israel is
not inclined to recognition of the Genocide because of geopolitical
factors. Possible rising of the Armenian Genocide issue in the Knesset
does not mean changing of the foreign political course of Tel Aviv.
Despite the opinion that the relations between Tel Aviv and Ankara
are currently suffering a crisis, the bilateral trade and economic
ties keep on developing.
After Armenia had proclaimed independence, Yerevan and Tel Aviv
found themselves on the opposite sides of geopolitical barricades
for no special reasons. What are the main problems between the two
countries and what can Armenia and Israel do to establish full-fledged
cooperation?
If one looks at the context of Armenian-Israeli relations in general,
Yerevan and Tel Aviv are building their relations with due regard
for a number of various geopolitical factors. First and foremost,
this is the Turkish-Israeli aspect. Turkey is a quite important
country for Israel. One should not forget that this was the first
Islamic country to recognize the independence of Israel in 1948. For
Israel surrounded by hostile Muslim countries, Turkey was the only
country to serve as an outlet to the outer world for a long time,
and this was really a big mission provided to Tel Aviv by Ankara. In
addition, trade and economic relations were and are still developing
between the two countries. Another serious factor influencing the
Armenian-Israeli relations is the negative attitude of Israel and
Iran towards each other, and it is no secret to anybody that these
relations are hostile. Israel even sees more problems related to the
relations with Iran than with the Arab countries that are hostile
towards Tel Aviv.
The fact that the relations between Armenia and Iran are at a high
level also has its impact.
Israeli-Azeri and Azeri-Armenian relations are a quite serious factor.
The relations between Baku and Tel Aviv have been dynamically
developing over the past few years, and among the CIS countries
Azerbaijan has the closest relations with Israel. They in Israel
are even going to name a street after Heydar Aliyev and are already
building a park after Heydar Aliyev in one of the Israeli cities.
Israel is one of the biggest importers of Azeri oil and gas
via Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline. Naturally, the high level of
Azeri-Israeli relations is having an effect on Armenian-Israeli
relations. Armenia's good relations with a number of Arab countries,
particularly, Syria and Lebanon, i.e. the countries with which Israel
is at odds, are another big factor for Armenian-Israeli relations.
Armenia has rather big and well-organized communities in Syria and
Lebanon, and its friendly relations with those countries are having
their impact on Armenian-Israeli ties. The presence of Armenian
historical representation in Jerusalem - Armenian community and
Armenian Patriarchate - is also having an effect on the bilateral
relations. Moreover, the Armenian factor is often discussed over
Arab-Israeli peace talks.
Even though Armenia and Israel are currently representing unfriendly
camps, they can find common grounds for developing their cooperation.
Israel should stop being jealous of Armenian-Iranian relations
while Armenia should review its attitude towards Israel's ties with
Turkey and Azerbaijan. If Israel wants to develop its partnership
with Azerbaijan, it should be allowed to do it. The dialogue between
Yerevan and Tel Aviv should not depend on Azeri-Israeli relations or
vice versa on Armenian-Iranian relations. Armenia is surrounded by
unfriendly states and Iran is one of the two outlets for the country
into the outside world. Armenia has no alternative to its relations
with Iran. Israel should understand this, and I think it does. I think
that our good relations with Iran are hardly an obstacle to developing
cooperation with Israel. The same is true for the Israelis for whom
good relations with the Azeris should not be a deterrent for improving
relations with Armenians. Unlike other countries, Armenia does not
have a big Jewish community while Azerbaijan is home to 50,000 Jews,
which is a strong factor for development of Israeli-Azeri relations.
How does Serzh Sargsyan's statement that Armenia supports Palestinian
people's right to self-determination via creating an independent
state comply with the above-mentioned context?
The Armenian president has said nothing new, as today the international
community demands supporting the Palestinian people in creating an
independent state. Israeli political forces are not against this
either. Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak, who held the prime minister's
post at different periods of time, did not come out against this,
and the only problem is how to do this, within what limits, and what
status Jerusalem should have. That is to say, the parties' approaches
are different here, as except the Zionist reaction forces, nobody
objects to provision of statehood to Palestine, even the incumbent
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Israel keeps on carrying out
capital construction in the occupied territories of the Western bank
of the river Jordan and settling these territories with Jews. Netanyahu
thinks this is a correct step, supposing that the Palestinian statehood
may be formed on the other bank. Naturally, Palestine disagrees with
this, like the world community does. Barack Obama demanded suspending
the construction, as according to the UN resolution, the Western bank
is a region envisaged for creation of the Palestinian statehood. So,
the Armenian president made his statement in the correct context,
having expressed the position of the international community.
Will Israel benefit from opening of the Armenian-Turkish border?
I think it will. Anyway, normalization of the Armenian-Turkish
relations does not disturb Israel. Actually, the Armenian-Turkish
normalization process is neither good nor bad for Israel, but if
this process is completed successfully, Tel Aviv will get rid of
some problems.
Why are there no Israeli and Armenian embassies in Yerevan and Tel
Aviv so far?
I have repeatedly stated the significance of opening of the two
embassies. And if Israel can take time with opening its embassy in
Armenia, it is vitally important for Armenia to have an embassy in
Tel Aviv. There are a number of geopolitical factors forcing Armenia
to refrain from doing it, particularly, relations with Iran, Syria
and Lebanon - relations that cause Israel's displeasure. The key
reason why Israel is not eager to open an embassy in Armenia is a
possible negative response from Turkey and Azerbaijan. As an expert
for Armenian-Israeli relations, I think that Armenia should not wait
for Israel and should try to open its embassy in that country in the
very near future as the Armenian factor in Israel and Jerusalem is
getting increasingly important.
What is your view of development of Tel Aviv-Tehran relations? May
the current mutual antagonism lead to escalation of an armed conflict?
I think it is early to say that Israeli-Iranian relations may
develop into an armed conflict. Some Israeli politicians and the
Jewish lobby in the United States seek conflict with Iran as they
believe that Israel cannot be at ease while Iran exists. However,
I think the USA is not interested in aggression against Iran unless
Tehran starts the first. Anyway, despite long confrontation over the
Iranian nuclear program, Tehran is acting rather wisely in the matter
and is not crossing the Rubicon. I don't think that things may end
in an armed conflict, especially that Russia, the EU and the United
States advocate peaceful dialogue. At the same time, I believe the
situation will continue to be tensed for a long time.
Aram Araratyan
ArmInfo
2010-05-04 16:08:00
Interview of Artak Grigoryan, member of the Republican Party of Armenia
Board, expert for Armenian-Israeli relations, with ArmInfo news agency
Mr. Grigoryan, the Israeli Knesset has recently decided to include
the issue of the Armenian Genocide recognition in the agenda. How
much probably will the parliament vote "for", taking into account
the current geopolitical situation?
Inclusion of this issue in the Knesset agenda was not unexpected;
however, its possible discussion by the Israeli parliament will really
be unexpected. I suppose the fact that, unlike the past few years,
more pro-Armenian statements have been made over the debates, can be
considered progress. Moreover, Speaker of the Knesset Reuven Rivlin,
who abstained from voting over the previous years, this time voted
for including the Armenian Genocide issue in the Knesset agenda. We
have no serious lobby in that country, and one of the key reasons
is the lack of Armenian embassy in Israel. In addition, Israel is
not inclined to recognition of the Genocide because of geopolitical
factors. Possible rising of the Armenian Genocide issue in the Knesset
does not mean changing of the foreign political course of Tel Aviv.
Despite the opinion that the relations between Tel Aviv and Ankara
are currently suffering a crisis, the bilateral trade and economic
ties keep on developing.
After Armenia had proclaimed independence, Yerevan and Tel Aviv
found themselves on the opposite sides of geopolitical barricades
for no special reasons. What are the main problems between the two
countries and what can Armenia and Israel do to establish full-fledged
cooperation?
If one looks at the context of Armenian-Israeli relations in general,
Yerevan and Tel Aviv are building their relations with due regard
for a number of various geopolitical factors. First and foremost,
this is the Turkish-Israeli aspect. Turkey is a quite important
country for Israel. One should not forget that this was the first
Islamic country to recognize the independence of Israel in 1948. For
Israel surrounded by hostile Muslim countries, Turkey was the only
country to serve as an outlet to the outer world for a long time,
and this was really a big mission provided to Tel Aviv by Ankara. In
addition, trade and economic relations were and are still developing
between the two countries. Another serious factor influencing the
Armenian-Israeli relations is the negative attitude of Israel and
Iran towards each other, and it is no secret to anybody that these
relations are hostile. Israel even sees more problems related to the
relations with Iran than with the Arab countries that are hostile
towards Tel Aviv.
The fact that the relations between Armenia and Iran are at a high
level also has its impact.
Israeli-Azeri and Azeri-Armenian relations are a quite serious factor.
The relations between Baku and Tel Aviv have been dynamically
developing over the past few years, and among the CIS countries
Azerbaijan has the closest relations with Israel. They in Israel
are even going to name a street after Heydar Aliyev and are already
building a park after Heydar Aliyev in one of the Israeli cities.
Israel is one of the biggest importers of Azeri oil and gas
via Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline. Naturally, the high level of
Azeri-Israeli relations is having an effect on Armenian-Israeli
relations. Armenia's good relations with a number of Arab countries,
particularly, Syria and Lebanon, i.e. the countries with which Israel
is at odds, are another big factor for Armenian-Israeli relations.
Armenia has rather big and well-organized communities in Syria and
Lebanon, and its friendly relations with those countries are having
their impact on Armenian-Israeli ties. The presence of Armenian
historical representation in Jerusalem - Armenian community and
Armenian Patriarchate - is also having an effect on the bilateral
relations. Moreover, the Armenian factor is often discussed over
Arab-Israeli peace talks.
Even though Armenia and Israel are currently representing unfriendly
camps, they can find common grounds for developing their cooperation.
Israel should stop being jealous of Armenian-Iranian relations
while Armenia should review its attitude towards Israel's ties with
Turkey and Azerbaijan. If Israel wants to develop its partnership
with Azerbaijan, it should be allowed to do it. The dialogue between
Yerevan and Tel Aviv should not depend on Azeri-Israeli relations or
vice versa on Armenian-Iranian relations. Armenia is surrounded by
unfriendly states and Iran is one of the two outlets for the country
into the outside world. Armenia has no alternative to its relations
with Iran. Israel should understand this, and I think it does. I think
that our good relations with Iran are hardly an obstacle to developing
cooperation with Israel. The same is true for the Israelis for whom
good relations with the Azeris should not be a deterrent for improving
relations with Armenians. Unlike other countries, Armenia does not
have a big Jewish community while Azerbaijan is home to 50,000 Jews,
which is a strong factor for development of Israeli-Azeri relations.
How does Serzh Sargsyan's statement that Armenia supports Palestinian
people's right to self-determination via creating an independent
state comply with the above-mentioned context?
The Armenian president has said nothing new, as today the international
community demands supporting the Palestinian people in creating an
independent state. Israeli political forces are not against this
either. Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak, who held the prime minister's
post at different periods of time, did not come out against this,
and the only problem is how to do this, within what limits, and what
status Jerusalem should have. That is to say, the parties' approaches
are different here, as except the Zionist reaction forces, nobody
objects to provision of statehood to Palestine, even the incumbent
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Israel keeps on carrying out
capital construction in the occupied territories of the Western bank
of the river Jordan and settling these territories with Jews. Netanyahu
thinks this is a correct step, supposing that the Palestinian statehood
may be formed on the other bank. Naturally, Palestine disagrees with
this, like the world community does. Barack Obama demanded suspending
the construction, as according to the UN resolution, the Western bank
is a region envisaged for creation of the Palestinian statehood. So,
the Armenian president made his statement in the correct context,
having expressed the position of the international community.
Will Israel benefit from opening of the Armenian-Turkish border?
I think it will. Anyway, normalization of the Armenian-Turkish
relations does not disturb Israel. Actually, the Armenian-Turkish
normalization process is neither good nor bad for Israel, but if
this process is completed successfully, Tel Aviv will get rid of
some problems.
Why are there no Israeli and Armenian embassies in Yerevan and Tel
Aviv so far?
I have repeatedly stated the significance of opening of the two
embassies. And if Israel can take time with opening its embassy in
Armenia, it is vitally important for Armenia to have an embassy in
Tel Aviv. There are a number of geopolitical factors forcing Armenia
to refrain from doing it, particularly, relations with Iran, Syria
and Lebanon - relations that cause Israel's displeasure. The key
reason why Israel is not eager to open an embassy in Armenia is a
possible negative response from Turkey and Azerbaijan. As an expert
for Armenian-Israeli relations, I think that Armenia should not wait
for Israel and should try to open its embassy in that country in the
very near future as the Armenian factor in Israel and Jerusalem is
getting increasingly important.
What is your view of development of Tel Aviv-Tehran relations? May
the current mutual antagonism lead to escalation of an armed conflict?
I think it is early to say that Israeli-Iranian relations may
develop into an armed conflict. Some Israeli politicians and the
Jewish lobby in the United States seek conflict with Iran as they
believe that Israel cannot be at ease while Iran exists. However,
I think the USA is not interested in aggression against Iran unless
Tehran starts the first. Anyway, despite long confrontation over the
Iranian nuclear program, Tehran is acting rather wisely in the matter
and is not crossing the Rubicon. I don't think that things may end
in an armed conflict, especially that Russia, the EU and the United
States advocate peaceful dialogue. At the same time, I believe the
situation will continue to be tensed for a long time.