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Nezavisimaya Gazeta , Russia
May 27 2010
Karabakh leader views Armenia-Azeri talks, Turkey's involvement
[Interview with Nagornyy Karabakh President Bako Sahakyan by Yuriy
Simonyan, 27 May; Bako Sahakyan: 'We Are Betting on Independence':
President Asserts Nagornyy Karabakh Is Living as a Free State";
accessed via Nezavisimaya Gazeta Online]
Bako Sahakyan is sure everything is being done properly.
Nagornyy Karabakh President Bako Sahakyan's workday begins at 10 and
ends - whenever. Most often well after midnight. During the
parliamentary elections, held on 23 May, his work schedule accrued
inconceivable intensity. Nonetheless, the NKR [Republic of
Nagornyy-Karabakh] president carved out time for an exclusive
interview with NG [Nezavisimaya Gazeta] correspondent Yuriy Simonyan.
[Simonyan] Lately there have been more frequent discussions about the
need to return Nagornyy Karabakh representatives to the negotiations
process to settle the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. What will this
yield? How much would Stepanakert's return to the negotiations table
be a constructive position for the Azerbaijani side?
[Sahakyan] We have not observed constructivism from the Azerbaijani
side. Indeed, there have been more discussions of the need to give the
negotiations process a full-fledged format. And it's true, this is
essential. The farther they get, the more precisely the organizations
that are today carrying out the mediation mission, in particular the
OSCE [Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe] Minsk
Group, are realizing and coming to the conclusion that there is no
achieving serious results without the Republic of Nagornyy-Karabakh's
participation in the negotiations. In our statements, and in the
course of contacts with international organizations and the OSCE Minsk
Group, we have constantly underscored the necessity of restoring the
former format of the negotiations process, in which our
representatives would participate. The very nature of the issue
requires that international mediation organizations utilize every
possible method to return the process to its former channel. We are
certain that this will lead the opposing sides and the very settlement
process itself to more effective and efficient solutions.
[Simonyan] Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev, who only recently had
categorically rejected the possibility of a dialogue with Stepanakert,
eased up on his attitude somewhat, mentioning casually that this is
basically acceptable. But simultaneously he toughened up his rhetoric:
the problem will not be decided by peace; it will be decided by
military means. How serious do you think these threats are?
[Sahakyan] It's not a matter of seriousness. It's a matter of the
absence of constructivism in the behaviour of Azerbaijan's political
leadership. For a long time the Azerbaijani side has been
demonstrating the same primitive line. In our view, this is the main
reason - along with the fact that Karabakh is not participating in the
negotiations - why there have been no results in the negotiations
process to the present day. This kind of behaviour by Azerbaijan, in
particular the militaristic statements, the country's militarization,
can in no way facilitate the conflict's resolution. Therefore we have
been constantly calling on the OSCE Mission and those organizations
that talk to us from time to time to utilize every opportunity to get
Azerbaijan to change its completely unjustified and aggressive
behaviour. A line like that cannot improve the effectiveness of the
negotiations process.
[Simonyan] Turkey - Azerbaijan's strategic partner - is already
prepared to intervene and basically already is intervening in the
already complicated process of conflict settlement.
[Sahakyan] There has always been a Turkey factor in the region.
Ankara's participation in regional affairs has been of various natures
at various times. Today Turkey is laying more obvious claims to direct
participation in the Karabakh negotiations process. This is, of
course, unacceptable for us. We do not hide the fact that Turkey's
participation would only aggravate the process. Therefore we do not
see any necessity for its participation or any necessity for changing
the format, other than our return to the negotiations table.
Ultimately, the Budapest summit decisions should be respected and in
accordance with them Nagornyy Karabakh recognized as a full-fledged
party in the negotiations process.
[Simonyan] Mediators have declared the Madrid principles for settling
the basic issues, and both Yerevan and Baku apparently have agreed to
them. Then that turned out not to be true at all, that the sides had
to present certain additions and changes. Now Baku and Yerevan are
accusing each other of delaying the presentation of these correctives.
At the same time we are hearing certain formulas about surrendering to
Azerbaijan the seven districts of the so-called security belt of
Nagornyy-Karabakh: "2 plus 3 plus 2." In short, everything is very
vague and confused. Can you explain what is actually going on?
[Sahakyan] Not only the Madrid principles but also all the others that
have been worked out and presented to the sides for consideration will
always seem vague and unclear for the same reason: they are not being
worked out in conjunction with us. We respect the work of the OSCE
Minsk Group and are deeply grateful to it because we believe that
today's relative peace was achieved thanks to its work, among other
things. However, while respecting this mission, at the same time we
say that any principles and schemes for settling the problem have to
be worked out together with us. Putting them into practice requires
NKR concurrence at each stage, since a lack of agreement will
subsequently create serious problems.
[Simonyan] Simultaneously with the leak of information about the
"plan" for the gradual handover to Azerbaijan of those districts
another one appeared as well, about the imminent return of Azerbaijani
refugees. Is Karabakh society prepared to accept them?
[Sahakyan] We have touched on this topic quite often. In this light I
want to emphasize that the problem has to be viewed comprehensively.
If we are talking about Azerbaijani refugees, then we must not forget,
too, about the half a million Armenians who were forced to abandon
their native homes or were forcibly evicted from them. Therefore we
cannot accept the return specifically of only Azerbaijani refugees. We
are prepared to consider the issue of refugees as a whole, that is,
with consideration for the interests of the Armenian refugees.
[Simonyan] Funds were found in Nagornyy-Karabakh's limited budget to
restore the mosque in Shushi. Aren't there enough other problems as it
is?
[Sahakyan] The mosque is a one of our republic's cultural treasures
and does not belong to an individual people. Just as our church cannot
belong only to the people of Karabakh. We believe that these are
treasures of a universal nature. Thus this attitude. As much as
possible, we will be allocating even more funds to restore monuments
of culture and architecture, regardless of their religious
affiliation, be they Muslim or Christian.
[Simonyan] How do you see Karabakh's future? As a part of Armenia or
will the republic be a second Armenian state after all?
[Sahakyan] For a fairly long time now we have been insisting on the
independence of our republic and have been living as a free state. Our
efforts today are aimed at having the international community
recognize our de facto independence. This is our state's main
political line.
[Simonyan] Is your main goal the NKR presidency?
[Sahakyan] Many things need to be done. First of all, we need to solve
socioeconomic issues. The war destroyed our economy and the republic's
entire infrastructure was decimated. Today we are gradually restoring
our economy. Last year, for example, GDP growth was 13.1 per cent, and
that is given the world crisis. I am inclined to explain this success
by our people's attitude towards their country. And the main goal or
dream of us achieving recognition of our independence and providing
for normal living conditions for our citizens, and of our nation,
which has been living on this land for four and a half thousand years,
having the opportunity to labour in peaceful conditions, raise their
children , and enjoy life.
>From the NG Dossier
Bako Sahakyan has been president of the unrecognized Republic of
Nagornyy Karabakh since 2007. He graduated from the law school of
Artsakh State University. Full member of the Russian Academy on Issues
of Security, Defence, and Law. Since 1988, one of the Artsakh
movement's activists, and in 1990 joined the Nagornyy Karabakh
self-defence ranks. In the years 1999-2001, NKR interior minister,
then national security service director. Major-general. Decorated with
the order of the Russian Federation, Peter the Great 1st degree.
[translated from Russian]
From: A. Papazian
May 27 2010
Karabakh leader views Armenia-Azeri talks, Turkey's involvement
[Interview with Nagornyy Karabakh President Bako Sahakyan by Yuriy
Simonyan, 27 May; Bako Sahakyan: 'We Are Betting on Independence':
President Asserts Nagornyy Karabakh Is Living as a Free State";
accessed via Nezavisimaya Gazeta Online]
Bako Sahakyan is sure everything is being done properly.
Nagornyy Karabakh President Bako Sahakyan's workday begins at 10 and
ends - whenever. Most often well after midnight. During the
parliamentary elections, held on 23 May, his work schedule accrued
inconceivable intensity. Nonetheless, the NKR [Republic of
Nagornyy-Karabakh] president carved out time for an exclusive
interview with NG [Nezavisimaya Gazeta] correspondent Yuriy Simonyan.
[Simonyan] Lately there have been more frequent discussions about the
need to return Nagornyy Karabakh representatives to the negotiations
process to settle the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. What will this
yield? How much would Stepanakert's return to the negotiations table
be a constructive position for the Azerbaijani side?
[Sahakyan] We have not observed constructivism from the Azerbaijani
side. Indeed, there have been more discussions of the need to give the
negotiations process a full-fledged format. And it's true, this is
essential. The farther they get, the more precisely the organizations
that are today carrying out the mediation mission, in particular the
OSCE [Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe] Minsk
Group, are realizing and coming to the conclusion that there is no
achieving serious results without the Republic of Nagornyy-Karabakh's
participation in the negotiations. In our statements, and in the
course of contacts with international organizations and the OSCE Minsk
Group, we have constantly underscored the necessity of restoring the
former format of the negotiations process, in which our
representatives would participate. The very nature of the issue
requires that international mediation organizations utilize every
possible method to return the process to its former channel. We are
certain that this will lead the opposing sides and the very settlement
process itself to more effective and efficient solutions.
[Simonyan] Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev, who only recently had
categorically rejected the possibility of a dialogue with Stepanakert,
eased up on his attitude somewhat, mentioning casually that this is
basically acceptable. But simultaneously he toughened up his rhetoric:
the problem will not be decided by peace; it will be decided by
military means. How serious do you think these threats are?
[Sahakyan] It's not a matter of seriousness. It's a matter of the
absence of constructivism in the behaviour of Azerbaijan's political
leadership. For a long time the Azerbaijani side has been
demonstrating the same primitive line. In our view, this is the main
reason - along with the fact that Karabakh is not participating in the
negotiations - why there have been no results in the negotiations
process to the present day. This kind of behaviour by Azerbaijan, in
particular the militaristic statements, the country's militarization,
can in no way facilitate the conflict's resolution. Therefore we have
been constantly calling on the OSCE Mission and those organizations
that talk to us from time to time to utilize every opportunity to get
Azerbaijan to change its completely unjustified and aggressive
behaviour. A line like that cannot improve the effectiveness of the
negotiations process.
[Simonyan] Turkey - Azerbaijan's strategic partner - is already
prepared to intervene and basically already is intervening in the
already complicated process of conflict settlement.
[Sahakyan] There has always been a Turkey factor in the region.
Ankara's participation in regional affairs has been of various natures
at various times. Today Turkey is laying more obvious claims to direct
participation in the Karabakh negotiations process. This is, of
course, unacceptable for us. We do not hide the fact that Turkey's
participation would only aggravate the process. Therefore we do not
see any necessity for its participation or any necessity for changing
the format, other than our return to the negotiations table.
Ultimately, the Budapest summit decisions should be respected and in
accordance with them Nagornyy Karabakh recognized as a full-fledged
party in the negotiations process.
[Simonyan] Mediators have declared the Madrid principles for settling
the basic issues, and both Yerevan and Baku apparently have agreed to
them. Then that turned out not to be true at all, that the sides had
to present certain additions and changes. Now Baku and Yerevan are
accusing each other of delaying the presentation of these correctives.
At the same time we are hearing certain formulas about surrendering to
Azerbaijan the seven districts of the so-called security belt of
Nagornyy-Karabakh: "2 plus 3 plus 2." In short, everything is very
vague and confused. Can you explain what is actually going on?
[Sahakyan] Not only the Madrid principles but also all the others that
have been worked out and presented to the sides for consideration will
always seem vague and unclear for the same reason: they are not being
worked out in conjunction with us. We respect the work of the OSCE
Minsk Group and are deeply grateful to it because we believe that
today's relative peace was achieved thanks to its work, among other
things. However, while respecting this mission, at the same time we
say that any principles and schemes for settling the problem have to
be worked out together with us. Putting them into practice requires
NKR concurrence at each stage, since a lack of agreement will
subsequently create serious problems.
[Simonyan] Simultaneously with the leak of information about the
"plan" for the gradual handover to Azerbaijan of those districts
another one appeared as well, about the imminent return of Azerbaijani
refugees. Is Karabakh society prepared to accept them?
[Sahakyan] We have touched on this topic quite often. In this light I
want to emphasize that the problem has to be viewed comprehensively.
If we are talking about Azerbaijani refugees, then we must not forget,
too, about the half a million Armenians who were forced to abandon
their native homes or were forcibly evicted from them. Therefore we
cannot accept the return specifically of only Azerbaijani refugees. We
are prepared to consider the issue of refugees as a whole, that is,
with consideration for the interests of the Armenian refugees.
[Simonyan] Funds were found in Nagornyy-Karabakh's limited budget to
restore the mosque in Shushi. Aren't there enough other problems as it
is?
[Sahakyan] The mosque is a one of our republic's cultural treasures
and does not belong to an individual people. Just as our church cannot
belong only to the people of Karabakh. We believe that these are
treasures of a universal nature. Thus this attitude. As much as
possible, we will be allocating even more funds to restore monuments
of culture and architecture, regardless of their religious
affiliation, be they Muslim or Christian.
[Simonyan] How do you see Karabakh's future? As a part of Armenia or
will the republic be a second Armenian state after all?
[Sahakyan] For a fairly long time now we have been insisting on the
independence of our republic and have been living as a free state. Our
efforts today are aimed at having the international community
recognize our de facto independence. This is our state's main
political line.
[Simonyan] Is your main goal the NKR presidency?
[Sahakyan] Many things need to be done. First of all, we need to solve
socioeconomic issues. The war destroyed our economy and the republic's
entire infrastructure was decimated. Today we are gradually restoring
our economy. Last year, for example, GDP growth was 13.1 per cent, and
that is given the world crisis. I am inclined to explain this success
by our people's attitude towards their country. And the main goal or
dream of us achieving recognition of our independence and providing
for normal living conditions for our citizens, and of our nation,
which has been living on this land for four and a half thousand years,
having the opportunity to labour in peaceful conditions, raise their
children , and enjoy life.
>From the NG Dossier
Bako Sahakyan has been president of the unrecognized Republic of
Nagornyy Karabakh since 2007. He graduated from the law school of
Artsakh State University. Full member of the Russian Academy on Issues
of Security, Defence, and Law. Since 1988, one of the Artsakh
movement's activists, and in 1990 joined the Nagornyy Karabakh
self-defence ranks. In the years 1999-2001, NKR interior minister,
then national security service director. Major-general. Decorated with
the order of the Russian Federation, Peter the Great 1st degree.
[translated from Russian]
From: A. Papazian