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The price of independence
Tags: Russia, Abkhazia, Politics, Kosovo , Georgia, Commentary, Interview, World
Young Ricardo
Jun 18, 2011 10:05 Moscow Time
Photo: RIA Novosti
Our guest today is Andranik Migranyan, Director of the Institute for
Democracy and Cooperation in New York City. We're talking about the
third anniversary of Kosovo's independence, as some say. Some people
certainly believe that. What do you think Georgian people think of
Kosovo's so-called independence?
It's clear for me and I read several times that Georgian leaders,
including Saakashvili were against Kosovo's recognition as an
independent state, because they were afraid that Russia would follow
the example of Western countries, like the US and some European
countries, and recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia, because Russian
leaders have emphasized many times that there's no difference between
the Kosovo case and that of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
What about the accusations that Georgia has against the break-away
Abkhazia conducting a deliberate campaign of ethnic cleansing? We
understand 240,000 Georgians were killed.
There are, of course, cases of ethnic cleansing. But this ethnic
cleansing happened, as in Kosovo, on both sides. We know about ethnic
cleansings of Serbs by Kosovars and we remember ethnic cleansings of
Kosovars by Serbs. And in Georgia we have Gali District, which is
predominantly inhabited by Georgians, which means that not all
Georgians were `kicked out'. Some Georgians left and some stayed, and
they live in this compact district, which is almost 100%
Georgian-populated. There were, of course, many Georgians, who had to
leave, and unfortunately it's a sad consequence of ethnic clashes. We
know about similar cases concerning Armenians in Azerbaijan and Azeris
in Armenia. 2,000 Armenians living in Baku had to leave all their
property, homes and flee the country. The same happened to Azeris in
Armenia. There were yet similar cases in India and Pakistan, and many
other places. Unfortunately, it's a result of this kind of tragic
developments.
But Russia supports Abkhazia. Is that correct?
Russia supports Abkhazia, but it demanded Georgia on behalf of
Abkhazia to show respect towards it. And Russia was right. Georgia has
several times invaded Abkhazia, committed a lot of crimes in its
territory. Under Gamsakhurdia and later under Shevardnadze there were
attempts to solve the problem by force. Instead of solving the
problem, it created a huge gap between the two nations, making
reconciliation between Georgians and Abkhazians close to impossible.
What about the accusation against Kosovo that it's a transit point for
children and women being trafficked for prostitution and other crimes
like that?
Yes, I have read about that in media. Unfortunately, I haven't been
there for a long time. But I've read that Kosovars committed other
severe crimes, killing Serbs and selling their organs, which is
terrible. And if I'm correct Carla Del Ponte, investigator of The
Hague Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, mentioned that a couple of
times. And, of course, Kosovars are well-known in Europe for different
kinds of criminal activities - drug dealing, prostitution - which
we've read a lot about, at least in the media.
What can Russia do to bring some peace? Can they bring the two sides together?
This is an old question. Last time I was in Georgia - that was right
before the Rose Revolution - I saw things that are very important for
Georgians to understand. Usually, they accuse Moscow of all their
problems, and they ignore or disrespect Abkhazians and others. At that
time we told them to talk to Abkhazia with more respect, treat
Abkhazians as equals, as normal neighbours that you live together
with, try to solve the problem instead of ignoring Abkhazians and
Ossetians and blaming Russia for all their ill fate. Sociologically,
Georgians are Soviet regime's spoilt kids, who were one of the
dominant ethnic groups, had real money and real opportunities and
considered others to be inferior to them. Of course, they are
infuriated older people who lived in that country. That's a serious
problem, which means the roots of problems between Georgia and
Abkhazia are in Georgia, not in Abkhazia or in Russia.
http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/06/18/52014085.html
Tags: Russia, Abkhazia, Politics, Kosovo , Georgia, Commentary, Interview, World
Young Ricardo
Jun 18, 2011 10:05 Moscow Time
Photo: RIA Novosti
Our guest today is Andranik Migranyan, Director of the Institute for
Democracy and Cooperation in New York City. We're talking about the
third anniversary of Kosovo's independence, as some say. Some people
certainly believe that. What do you think Georgian people think of
Kosovo's so-called independence?
It's clear for me and I read several times that Georgian leaders,
including Saakashvili were against Kosovo's recognition as an
independent state, because they were afraid that Russia would follow
the example of Western countries, like the US and some European
countries, and recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia, because Russian
leaders have emphasized many times that there's no difference between
the Kosovo case and that of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
What about the accusations that Georgia has against the break-away
Abkhazia conducting a deliberate campaign of ethnic cleansing? We
understand 240,000 Georgians were killed.
There are, of course, cases of ethnic cleansing. But this ethnic
cleansing happened, as in Kosovo, on both sides. We know about ethnic
cleansings of Serbs by Kosovars and we remember ethnic cleansings of
Kosovars by Serbs. And in Georgia we have Gali District, which is
predominantly inhabited by Georgians, which means that not all
Georgians were `kicked out'. Some Georgians left and some stayed, and
they live in this compact district, which is almost 100%
Georgian-populated. There were, of course, many Georgians, who had to
leave, and unfortunately it's a sad consequence of ethnic clashes. We
know about similar cases concerning Armenians in Azerbaijan and Azeris
in Armenia. 2,000 Armenians living in Baku had to leave all their
property, homes and flee the country. The same happened to Azeris in
Armenia. There were yet similar cases in India and Pakistan, and many
other places. Unfortunately, it's a result of this kind of tragic
developments.
But Russia supports Abkhazia. Is that correct?
Russia supports Abkhazia, but it demanded Georgia on behalf of
Abkhazia to show respect towards it. And Russia was right. Georgia has
several times invaded Abkhazia, committed a lot of crimes in its
territory. Under Gamsakhurdia and later under Shevardnadze there were
attempts to solve the problem by force. Instead of solving the
problem, it created a huge gap between the two nations, making
reconciliation between Georgians and Abkhazians close to impossible.
What about the accusation against Kosovo that it's a transit point for
children and women being trafficked for prostitution and other crimes
like that?
Yes, I have read about that in media. Unfortunately, I haven't been
there for a long time. But I've read that Kosovars committed other
severe crimes, killing Serbs and selling their organs, which is
terrible. And if I'm correct Carla Del Ponte, investigator of The
Hague Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, mentioned that a couple of
times. And, of course, Kosovars are well-known in Europe for different
kinds of criminal activities - drug dealing, prostitution - which
we've read a lot about, at least in the media.
What can Russia do to bring some peace? Can they bring the two sides together?
This is an old question. Last time I was in Georgia - that was right
before the Rose Revolution - I saw things that are very important for
Georgians to understand. Usually, they accuse Moscow of all their
problems, and they ignore or disrespect Abkhazians and others. At that
time we told them to talk to Abkhazia with more respect, treat
Abkhazians as equals, as normal neighbours that you live together
with, try to solve the problem instead of ignoring Abkhazians and
Ossetians and blaming Russia for all their ill fate. Sociologically,
Georgians are Soviet regime's spoilt kids, who were one of the
dominant ethnic groups, had real money and real opportunities and
considered others to be inferior to them. Of course, they are
infuriated older people who lived in that country. That's a serious
problem, which means the roots of problems between Georgia and
Abkhazia are in Georgia, not in Abkhazia or in Russia.
http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/06/18/52014085.html