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GEORGIAN AND ARMENIAN CHURCH LEADERS STILL SEEKING A SOLUTION FOR DISPUTED CHURCHES
By Etuna Tsotniashvili
The Messenger
http://www.messenger.com.ge/issues/2477_november_3_2011/2477_armenia.html
Nov 3 2011
Georgia
What is the situation in the dispute between Georgia and Armenia on
the issues of Georgian churches on Armenian territory? This issue has
been activated recently and today the disagreement has boiled up to
both the Georgian and Armenian Patriarchates.
To raise public interest in the disputed churches in Georgia, a local
NGO called Multinational Georgia, and with the support of Armenian
Embassy and Armenian Assembly, organized a tour for Georgian historians
and media representatives to the Debed Gorge in Armenia where two
13th century churches are located. Georgian historians say that
based on the architecture, frescoes and graves with Georgian-alphabet
inscriptions that the churches of Akhtala and Kobair are of Georgian
origin. Both Akhtala and Kobair are now on Armenia's territory and
both are disputed subjects between the two countries.
Akhtala is located in the Lori Province on the left bank of the Debed
River. On October 30, a Sunday, four or five people were in the church,
lighting candles. There were no signs of giving mass or a sermon
as it is traditional in Christian churches, however. In the yard
of the church a rock band was playing, which caused some surprise,
however I was told that a music clip was being shot and in Armenian
churches they have liberal approach so it isn't unusual to play noisy
music in the yard of an old church. The musicians were Americans,
of Armenian origin.
The locals know that this church is the subject of dispute, however
they unanimously stressed that Georgians and Armenians should solve
all such problems in a friendly way. "We, the local population, know
that they are Georgian churches, but I don't have much information
about it. In our region both Georgians and Armenians live together
and we have good relations with each other. We go to church from time
to time, light candles and pray," said Anait Taamryan to The Messenger.
However on the question if sermons are held in the church regularly
she had no information. "I do not know--maybe yes," she answered in
the local way.
Historian Eldar Bubulashvili told the journalists visiting the church
that the Akhtala Monastery was founded in the 13th century by Ioane
Mkhargrdzeli, who is buried there. The unique frescos here include
those with St. Nino and St Mariam, which are very interesting.
As the local priest of Akhtala Church, Vazgen Kirakosian said, mass
in the Akhtala Church was restored two years ago and is conducted in
Armenian. However, the Georgian Patriarchate's representatives say
that this is a violation of an agreement between the two churches.
Representative of youth movement Davitiani at the Georgian
Patriarchate, Kote Svanadze, said that there was an agreement between
the two patriarchates to halt any masses given in disputed churches
until this issue is solved. However the agreement is being violated
since in Akhtala the sermon is held in Armenian while rehabilitation
works are being carried out in the Kobair church a few kilometres away.
"We only give mass and serve in the church; we are not supposed to
discuss issues that have to be decided between two countries. Whatever
I may answer to your questions is my personal opinion and not the
official position," Vazgen Kirakosian said.
The renovation of the Kobair church, which is in extremely poor
condition, is also a subject of disagreement. Some analysts say that
this violates the agreement between the two Patriarchates, as it was
not agreed with Georgian Church whether the Armenian Church could
begin restoration. The walls of the church are in ruins and cold
weather is damaging the unique frescos.
The Vice Mayor of Alaverdi, Artur Kharatian, said: "I think this is an
issue historians should discuss. It is not easy to give an answer on
church ownership, but I can say one thing for sure--that this issue
should not cause confrontation between two nations!"
"Armenians do not dispute that the churches are Orthodox, however there
is disagreement on whether the churches were built by the Armenian
Orthodox or Georgian Orthodox people. At an epoch when those churches
were being built, the Debed gorge was included in Georgia's territory
and Georgians were living here. Evidence of this are the graves of
people with Georgian inscriptions, and the fact that Georgian Church
jurisdiction included these churches," said historian Jaba Samushia. He
said that today what is most important is that the churches be saved
because as time passes the weather is destroying them.
Arnold Stepanyan, Chairman of Multinational Georgia said negotiations
have begun on three disputed churches, those of Akhtala, Kobair and
Khujabi. Some progress has been reached in for Khujabi and Kobair
and discussions are also in progress on six Armenian churches located
in Georgia.
"I think both sides should find certain compromises and agree on
specific issues. The negotiations must continue so issues are solved
peacefully," Stepanyan said. "We should try to do everything for
the sake of our nations. This is very sensitive issue and we want to
restore friendship between the two Churches," he added.
By Etuna Tsotniashvili
The Messenger
http://www.messenger.com.ge/issues/2477_november_3_2011/2477_armenia.html
Nov 3 2011
Georgia
What is the situation in the dispute between Georgia and Armenia on
the issues of Georgian churches on Armenian territory? This issue has
been activated recently and today the disagreement has boiled up to
both the Georgian and Armenian Patriarchates.
To raise public interest in the disputed churches in Georgia, a local
NGO called Multinational Georgia, and with the support of Armenian
Embassy and Armenian Assembly, organized a tour for Georgian historians
and media representatives to the Debed Gorge in Armenia where two
13th century churches are located. Georgian historians say that
based on the architecture, frescoes and graves with Georgian-alphabet
inscriptions that the churches of Akhtala and Kobair are of Georgian
origin. Both Akhtala and Kobair are now on Armenia's territory and
both are disputed subjects between the two countries.
Akhtala is located in the Lori Province on the left bank of the Debed
River. On October 30, a Sunday, four or five people were in the church,
lighting candles. There were no signs of giving mass or a sermon
as it is traditional in Christian churches, however. In the yard
of the church a rock band was playing, which caused some surprise,
however I was told that a music clip was being shot and in Armenian
churches they have liberal approach so it isn't unusual to play noisy
music in the yard of an old church. The musicians were Americans,
of Armenian origin.
The locals know that this church is the subject of dispute, however
they unanimously stressed that Georgians and Armenians should solve
all such problems in a friendly way. "We, the local population, know
that they are Georgian churches, but I don't have much information
about it. In our region both Georgians and Armenians live together
and we have good relations with each other. We go to church from time
to time, light candles and pray," said Anait Taamryan to The Messenger.
However on the question if sermons are held in the church regularly
she had no information. "I do not know--maybe yes," she answered in
the local way.
Historian Eldar Bubulashvili told the journalists visiting the church
that the Akhtala Monastery was founded in the 13th century by Ioane
Mkhargrdzeli, who is buried there. The unique frescos here include
those with St. Nino and St Mariam, which are very interesting.
As the local priest of Akhtala Church, Vazgen Kirakosian said, mass
in the Akhtala Church was restored two years ago and is conducted in
Armenian. However, the Georgian Patriarchate's representatives say
that this is a violation of an agreement between the two churches.
Representative of youth movement Davitiani at the Georgian
Patriarchate, Kote Svanadze, said that there was an agreement between
the two patriarchates to halt any masses given in disputed churches
until this issue is solved. However the agreement is being violated
since in Akhtala the sermon is held in Armenian while rehabilitation
works are being carried out in the Kobair church a few kilometres away.
"We only give mass and serve in the church; we are not supposed to
discuss issues that have to be decided between two countries. Whatever
I may answer to your questions is my personal opinion and not the
official position," Vazgen Kirakosian said.
The renovation of the Kobair church, which is in extremely poor
condition, is also a subject of disagreement. Some analysts say that
this violates the agreement between the two Patriarchates, as it was
not agreed with Georgian Church whether the Armenian Church could
begin restoration. The walls of the church are in ruins and cold
weather is damaging the unique frescos.
The Vice Mayor of Alaverdi, Artur Kharatian, said: "I think this is an
issue historians should discuss. It is not easy to give an answer on
church ownership, but I can say one thing for sure--that this issue
should not cause confrontation between two nations!"
"Armenians do not dispute that the churches are Orthodox, however there
is disagreement on whether the churches were built by the Armenian
Orthodox or Georgian Orthodox people. At an epoch when those churches
were being built, the Debed gorge was included in Georgia's territory
and Georgians were living here. Evidence of this are the graves of
people with Georgian inscriptions, and the fact that Georgian Church
jurisdiction included these churches," said historian Jaba Samushia. He
said that today what is most important is that the churches be saved
because as time passes the weather is destroying them.
Arnold Stepanyan, Chairman of Multinational Georgia said negotiations
have begun on three disputed churches, those of Akhtala, Kobair and
Khujabi. Some progress has been reached in for Khujabi and Kobair
and discussions are also in progress on six Armenian churches located
in Georgia.
"I think both sides should find certain compromises and agree on
specific issues. The negotiations must continue so issues are solved
peacefully," Stepanyan said. "We should try to do everything for
the sake of our nations. This is very sensitive issue and we want to
restore friendship between the two Churches," he added.