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'ARMENIANS STILL FEAR TO VISIT SOME AZERBAIJANI VILLAGES IN OCCUPIED LANDS'
news.az, Azerbaijan
Nov 15 2011
News.Az interviews Azerbaijani historian Ismikhan Osmanli, an expert
in the history of the South Caucasus.
You often repeat that Armenia has been gained by Armenians and it
was not their homeland. What is your statement bound to?
The matter is that the world has many examples of migrated people
and they do not conceal it and even take pride of this. For example,
Magyars ~V present-day Hungarians call Hungary their acquired homeland,
since they migrated here far from the East. However, Armenians are
trying to conceal their repeated migration and falsify their history.
But even Armenian scientists write not the history of Armenia as a
territory but a history of the Armenian ethnos since there are no
facts proving where their native lands is really located. According
to ancient Greek sources, the current Armenians, descendants of frigo
(Phrygians), migrated to the Balkans from Phrygia in Asia Minor and
then to the Caucasus.
They were driven from there to the east by the tribes of Cimmerians.
According to scientific research, the Cimmerians, who pursued Phrygians
before them, came to the Caucasus in two ways: through the northern
Caucasus and Georgia, and across present-day Turkey. Moving through
Turkey, the Cimmerians, pressed forwards Phrygians from the Balkans
up to Asia Minor. This was written by Armenist N.Adonts in the
early 20th century in VIII century BC in Thrace, the Balkans, there
appeared the Cimmerians, one of the "Sea Peoples", by definition of
the ancient Egyptian written records. Here they came into contact with
the ancestors of today's Armenians, whom they took away to the east -
to Asia Minor.
According to the "father of history" Herodotus, Phrygia was near
another historic area - Cappadocia. At the time of Herodotus, the
ancestors of the Armenians lived up to the Euphrates, the river that
divided, according to Herodotus, the Armenians from Cilicia. Herodotus
stated that Armenians are the descendants of the Phrygians.
Scholars are unanimous in their opinion that Armenians are alien
peoples in Asia Minor and the Caucasus. In the XIX century Russian
expert on Caucasus I. Chopin said that "Armenians are aliens. They are
descendants of Phrygians and Ionians who came to the northern valleys
of Anatolian mountains~T. The famous Armenian scholar M. Abegyan wrote,
"it is supposed that the ancestors of the Armenians long before our era
lived in Europe close to the ancestors of the Greeks and Thracians,
whence they crossed to Asia Minor. At the time of Herodotus in the
V century BC it was clearly understood that Armenians came to their
country from the west~T. The list goes on.
Are there definite proofs of migration of Cimmerians to Asia Minor
and that they followed the Phrygian tribes?
I have to remind that Armenian city Gyumri is a Cimmerian toponym,
which comes from the word ~Qcimmer~R who settled here, while Armenians
settled around Tigris and Euphrates ~V in Syria and Mesopotamia.
So why are they called ~QPhryges~R, ~QHayes~R, ~QArmenians~R?
As we said above, in ancient times Armenians were often called
Phrygians by the place of their arrival-Phrygia in the Balkans. Since
that Armenians have preserved this name: for example, the residents of
the center of present day Republic of Armenia: Azerbaijanis (currently
banished from there) and Armenians, call Armenians of Gyumri ~QPhrygian
Armenians~R. This was the name the neighbors of Armenians gave then in
ancient times. The etymology of the word ~QPhryngian~R is not known,
but it has been clearly defined that it is not Armenian. In Armenian
language, there is no phoneme ~Qph~R at the beginning of words in
Armenian and Armenians cannot pronounce such words, replacing ~Qph~R
with ~Qp~R.
The Hayes tribes were called Armenians by Cimmerians who drove
them away from the Balkans. Cimmerians called the ancestors of
Armenians-Phrygians ~Qermeni~R and from this name as ~Qarmani~R,
~QArmenians~R fixed and spread in other peoples.
As we know, Armenians call themselves Hayes?
Armenians call themselves Hayes, because they were allegedly the
ancestors of mythical Heyk. But it is also their myth. The name of the
country Hayas-Azzi was found in Asia Minor, in the upper Euphrates
in ancient written sources . Armenians immediately started to call
it their homeland, though earlier they did not know about Hayas-Azzi.
Here, Armenian scientist Kapantsian wrote a book called ~QHayas-craddle
of Armenians~R. However, the scientists who were dealing with ancient
history of the East denied and criticized Kapantsian for his bias
and proved that there is no topoformant ~Qasa~R in Armenian, which
means Hayas is not of Armenian origin.
>>From where did Armenians come to South Caucasus and Armenia?
As I have indicated above, the Armenians are alien in Armenia and the
present-day Armenia is not their historical homeland. Caucasus-Armenia
is acquired homeland of Armenians. Researches by world scientists have
long ago proved that the Armenian - Thracian tribes migrated to the
east, to Asia Minor, between the rivers Tigris and Euphrates under
the pressure of Cimmerians. From Asia Minor, they came to Armenia and
Karabakh. They are not natives of Asia Minor and the Caucasus. In
addition to historical sources, the prove that Armenians are not
autochthonous is the so-called Armenian illness. The illness-victims
have a high temperature which causes an unusual discomfort, which is
called "Armenian periodic disease" or "Mediterranean". The disease
occurs predominantly among the representatives of peoples whose
ancestors lived in the Mediterranean basin, especially among Armenians,
Jews and Arabs.
Then what do you think about the further destiny of the Armenian
people, who have again become part of the geopolitical game of their
close and remote empires and got enemies almost among all neighbor
states?
Armenians were also described in the Caucasus as ~Qstanding on ice~R
that is they are slippery in their actions and tend to betray, change
their position and place of residence. You see, in all conflicts and
wars between regional empires, Armenians have been playing a very
active and often unpleasant role, becoming a weapon in the hands of
the hostile empires. When one of the empires won, it left Armenians
to the mercy of face, one-on-one with their problems, gained in
enmity with neighbor peoples. As a result, Armenians suffered from
the intrigues of their leaders, who have turned them into a token
coin in the policy of bigger states.
In period of the USSR no one could turn Georgians, Azerbaijanis
and Dagestanis into enemies, because they are native peoples in the
region, their old wisdom and ancient laws of good neighborliness do
not allow them to yield to external intrigues. As for Armenians, they,
like earlier in history, were set against Georgian and Azerbaijani
people. History shows that Armenians are aggressive, they cannot live
calmly and do not allow neighbors to live in tranquility.
Armenians appeared in the Caucasus including in Azerbaijan and
Nagorno Karabakh in mass quantity in the 19th-early 20th century when
Russian tricolor was set over the region. With the USSR collapse,
the ancestors of Armenian separatists who migrated from Turkey and
Iran declared the secession of the ancient Azerbaijani land Karabakh
from Azerbaijan. This became one of the reasons of worsening of
sociopolitical situation in Azerbaijan in the 1980-1990~Rs.
Naturally, all these problems caused the most negative implications
for Armenia. The republic saw worsening of problems of unemployment,
which prompted the outflow of Armenian young people to other countries,
drop in birth rates and life span.
The situation was even more disastrous in the political life of
Armenia. The next round of resignation in the supreme elite started.
Those Armenian politicians who leave the posts abandon the country.
They do not care about the destiny of the Armenian people. The
intriguer-politicians launched the Karabakh conflict and like many
ordinary Armenians say ~Qgave a yoke of Karabakh to their people~T.
Do you think Armenian intellectuals understand the situation and can
change anything in the life of their people?
During international events I have the opportunity to communicate
with Armenian scientists and intellectuals. I have to note that
most of them sympathize with their people and fear repetition of
the tragic events and a new wave of the mass migration of Armenians
this time from the South Caucasus especially that over a half of
the Armenian population left Armenia and occupied Karabakh. Most
Armenian scientists note that they lost Karabakh when they started
the conflict with Azerbaijan in period of the USSR collapse. They
realize that they have lost much because they are not able to use
the welfare and resources of Azerbaijan, which played a key role in
the flourishing of the Armenian people in the South Caucasus.
During the meetings Armenians say that the trips via the regions
of Armenia, in particular Zangazur, Goycha, Masis, once settled by
Azerbaijanis, as well as the occupied Azerbaijani regions strikes
fear and leaves a depressing impression on one~Rs mind. As they told
me repeatedly, when passing though Zangazur, and then Lachin and
getting to the Azerbaijani occupied lands, they can see devastated
lands, settlements which appear like ghosts on the road. The road
from Armenia to Karabakh strikes fear because no one lives there
and the spirit of devastation oppresses anyone who sees it. Except
for Khankandi and a little in Shusha, the constructive works are not
conducted anywhere in the occupied lands and according to Armenians
there are several Azerbaijani villages in Karabakh where they do not
go because the fear the appearance of Azerbaijanis there, since the
latter often visit their native lands.
Does it mean that the Armenian people are doomed to constant migration
from one region into another?
I have to note that Armenians will always tend to migrating to new
places because they associate the notion ~RHomeland~R not with the
territories but the myth of ~QGreat Armenia~R. For Armenians, their
Homeland and a state has always been the Armenian Church which calls
any favorable place for residence ~QArmenia~R. For the reason of
the Caucasus annexation to the Russian empire in the 19th century,
over a million of Armenians moved from their ~QHomeland~R in Turkey,
Persia and Middle East to this region. No people in the world,
except Armenians, migrate on a goodwill basis from their homeland,
because any people who know their homeland will never leave the lands
and graves of their ancestors.
Now the Armenian people in the South Caucasus are going through the
most tragic and hard period in their history. In the Soviet times
Armenians could exist stably and develop through subsidies from the
ally republics and the Center, while now these channels are lost
and Armenia is at odds with three of the four neighbors. Ordinary
Armenian people who are now leaving the region always suffer from
this unwise policy of Armenian leaders. If foreign investments and
aid to Armenia are ceased, not a single Armenian will be left there
or it will become a country of Amazons, because the able-bodied men
leave the country first of all. Rich and influential families usually
leave Armenia first of all. So what do the ordinary people have to do?
news.az, Azerbaijan
Nov 15 2011
News.Az interviews Azerbaijani historian Ismikhan Osmanli, an expert
in the history of the South Caucasus.
You often repeat that Armenia has been gained by Armenians and it
was not their homeland. What is your statement bound to?
The matter is that the world has many examples of migrated people
and they do not conceal it and even take pride of this. For example,
Magyars ~V present-day Hungarians call Hungary their acquired homeland,
since they migrated here far from the East. However, Armenians are
trying to conceal their repeated migration and falsify their history.
But even Armenian scientists write not the history of Armenia as a
territory but a history of the Armenian ethnos since there are no
facts proving where their native lands is really located. According
to ancient Greek sources, the current Armenians, descendants of frigo
(Phrygians), migrated to the Balkans from Phrygia in Asia Minor and
then to the Caucasus.
They were driven from there to the east by the tribes of Cimmerians.
According to scientific research, the Cimmerians, who pursued Phrygians
before them, came to the Caucasus in two ways: through the northern
Caucasus and Georgia, and across present-day Turkey. Moving through
Turkey, the Cimmerians, pressed forwards Phrygians from the Balkans
up to Asia Minor. This was written by Armenist N.Adonts in the
early 20th century in VIII century BC in Thrace, the Balkans, there
appeared the Cimmerians, one of the "Sea Peoples", by definition of
the ancient Egyptian written records. Here they came into contact with
the ancestors of today's Armenians, whom they took away to the east -
to Asia Minor.
According to the "father of history" Herodotus, Phrygia was near
another historic area - Cappadocia. At the time of Herodotus, the
ancestors of the Armenians lived up to the Euphrates, the river that
divided, according to Herodotus, the Armenians from Cilicia. Herodotus
stated that Armenians are the descendants of the Phrygians.
Scholars are unanimous in their opinion that Armenians are alien
peoples in Asia Minor and the Caucasus. In the XIX century Russian
expert on Caucasus I. Chopin said that "Armenians are aliens. They are
descendants of Phrygians and Ionians who came to the northern valleys
of Anatolian mountains~T. The famous Armenian scholar M. Abegyan wrote,
"it is supposed that the ancestors of the Armenians long before our era
lived in Europe close to the ancestors of the Greeks and Thracians,
whence they crossed to Asia Minor. At the time of Herodotus in the
V century BC it was clearly understood that Armenians came to their
country from the west~T. The list goes on.
Are there definite proofs of migration of Cimmerians to Asia Minor
and that they followed the Phrygian tribes?
I have to remind that Armenian city Gyumri is a Cimmerian toponym,
which comes from the word ~Qcimmer~R who settled here, while Armenians
settled around Tigris and Euphrates ~V in Syria and Mesopotamia.
So why are they called ~QPhryges~R, ~QHayes~R, ~QArmenians~R?
As we said above, in ancient times Armenians were often called
Phrygians by the place of their arrival-Phrygia in the Balkans. Since
that Armenians have preserved this name: for example, the residents of
the center of present day Republic of Armenia: Azerbaijanis (currently
banished from there) and Armenians, call Armenians of Gyumri ~QPhrygian
Armenians~R. This was the name the neighbors of Armenians gave then in
ancient times. The etymology of the word ~QPhryngian~R is not known,
but it has been clearly defined that it is not Armenian. In Armenian
language, there is no phoneme ~Qph~R at the beginning of words in
Armenian and Armenians cannot pronounce such words, replacing ~Qph~R
with ~Qp~R.
The Hayes tribes were called Armenians by Cimmerians who drove
them away from the Balkans. Cimmerians called the ancestors of
Armenians-Phrygians ~Qermeni~R and from this name as ~Qarmani~R,
~QArmenians~R fixed and spread in other peoples.
As we know, Armenians call themselves Hayes?
Armenians call themselves Hayes, because they were allegedly the
ancestors of mythical Heyk. But it is also their myth. The name of the
country Hayas-Azzi was found in Asia Minor, in the upper Euphrates
in ancient written sources . Armenians immediately started to call
it their homeland, though earlier they did not know about Hayas-Azzi.
Here, Armenian scientist Kapantsian wrote a book called ~QHayas-craddle
of Armenians~R. However, the scientists who were dealing with ancient
history of the East denied and criticized Kapantsian for his bias
and proved that there is no topoformant ~Qasa~R in Armenian, which
means Hayas is not of Armenian origin.
>>From where did Armenians come to South Caucasus and Armenia?
As I have indicated above, the Armenians are alien in Armenia and the
present-day Armenia is not their historical homeland. Caucasus-Armenia
is acquired homeland of Armenians. Researches by world scientists have
long ago proved that the Armenian - Thracian tribes migrated to the
east, to Asia Minor, between the rivers Tigris and Euphrates under
the pressure of Cimmerians. From Asia Minor, they came to Armenia and
Karabakh. They are not natives of Asia Minor and the Caucasus. In
addition to historical sources, the prove that Armenians are not
autochthonous is the so-called Armenian illness. The illness-victims
have a high temperature which causes an unusual discomfort, which is
called "Armenian periodic disease" or "Mediterranean". The disease
occurs predominantly among the representatives of peoples whose
ancestors lived in the Mediterranean basin, especially among Armenians,
Jews and Arabs.
Then what do you think about the further destiny of the Armenian
people, who have again become part of the geopolitical game of their
close and remote empires and got enemies almost among all neighbor
states?
Armenians were also described in the Caucasus as ~Qstanding on ice~R
that is they are slippery in their actions and tend to betray, change
their position and place of residence. You see, in all conflicts and
wars between regional empires, Armenians have been playing a very
active and often unpleasant role, becoming a weapon in the hands of
the hostile empires. When one of the empires won, it left Armenians
to the mercy of face, one-on-one with their problems, gained in
enmity with neighbor peoples. As a result, Armenians suffered from
the intrigues of their leaders, who have turned them into a token
coin in the policy of bigger states.
In period of the USSR no one could turn Georgians, Azerbaijanis
and Dagestanis into enemies, because they are native peoples in the
region, their old wisdom and ancient laws of good neighborliness do
not allow them to yield to external intrigues. As for Armenians, they,
like earlier in history, were set against Georgian and Azerbaijani
people. History shows that Armenians are aggressive, they cannot live
calmly and do not allow neighbors to live in tranquility.
Armenians appeared in the Caucasus including in Azerbaijan and
Nagorno Karabakh in mass quantity in the 19th-early 20th century when
Russian tricolor was set over the region. With the USSR collapse,
the ancestors of Armenian separatists who migrated from Turkey and
Iran declared the secession of the ancient Azerbaijani land Karabakh
from Azerbaijan. This became one of the reasons of worsening of
sociopolitical situation in Azerbaijan in the 1980-1990~Rs.
Naturally, all these problems caused the most negative implications
for Armenia. The republic saw worsening of problems of unemployment,
which prompted the outflow of Armenian young people to other countries,
drop in birth rates and life span.
The situation was even more disastrous in the political life of
Armenia. The next round of resignation in the supreme elite started.
Those Armenian politicians who leave the posts abandon the country.
They do not care about the destiny of the Armenian people. The
intriguer-politicians launched the Karabakh conflict and like many
ordinary Armenians say ~Qgave a yoke of Karabakh to their people~T.
Do you think Armenian intellectuals understand the situation and can
change anything in the life of their people?
During international events I have the opportunity to communicate
with Armenian scientists and intellectuals. I have to note that
most of them sympathize with their people and fear repetition of
the tragic events and a new wave of the mass migration of Armenians
this time from the South Caucasus especially that over a half of
the Armenian population left Armenia and occupied Karabakh. Most
Armenian scientists note that they lost Karabakh when they started
the conflict with Azerbaijan in period of the USSR collapse. They
realize that they have lost much because they are not able to use
the welfare and resources of Azerbaijan, which played a key role in
the flourishing of the Armenian people in the South Caucasus.
During the meetings Armenians say that the trips via the regions
of Armenia, in particular Zangazur, Goycha, Masis, once settled by
Azerbaijanis, as well as the occupied Azerbaijani regions strikes
fear and leaves a depressing impression on one~Rs mind. As they told
me repeatedly, when passing though Zangazur, and then Lachin and
getting to the Azerbaijani occupied lands, they can see devastated
lands, settlements which appear like ghosts on the road. The road
from Armenia to Karabakh strikes fear because no one lives there
and the spirit of devastation oppresses anyone who sees it. Except
for Khankandi and a little in Shusha, the constructive works are not
conducted anywhere in the occupied lands and according to Armenians
there are several Azerbaijani villages in Karabakh where they do not
go because the fear the appearance of Azerbaijanis there, since the
latter often visit their native lands.
Does it mean that the Armenian people are doomed to constant migration
from one region into another?
I have to note that Armenians will always tend to migrating to new
places because they associate the notion ~RHomeland~R not with the
territories but the myth of ~QGreat Armenia~R. For Armenians, their
Homeland and a state has always been the Armenian Church which calls
any favorable place for residence ~QArmenia~R. For the reason of
the Caucasus annexation to the Russian empire in the 19th century,
over a million of Armenians moved from their ~QHomeland~R in Turkey,
Persia and Middle East to this region. No people in the world,
except Armenians, migrate on a goodwill basis from their homeland,
because any people who know their homeland will never leave the lands
and graves of their ancestors.
Now the Armenian people in the South Caucasus are going through the
most tragic and hard period in their history. In the Soviet times
Armenians could exist stably and develop through subsidies from the
ally republics and the Center, while now these channels are lost
and Armenia is at odds with three of the four neighbors. Ordinary
Armenian people who are now leaving the region always suffer from
this unwise policy of Armenian leaders. If foreign investments and
aid to Armenia are ceased, not a single Armenian will be left there
or it will become a country of Amazons, because the able-bodied men
leave the country first of all. Rich and influential families usually
leave Armenia first of all. So what do the ordinary people have to do?