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KARABAKH SOLUTION HAS TO ONE OF 'INCLUSION, NOT EXCLUSION'
news.az
Nov 28 2011
Azerbaijan
News.Az interviews Denis Haughey, ex-chairman of the Social Democratic
and Labour Party (SDLP) and a senior member of the SDLP team in
peace talks.
Could you introduce yourself? Are you still a member of the Northern
Ireland parliament?
No, I was a member of the Northern Ireland parliament or assembly and
I was a minister in the executive which was led by David Trimble and
Seamus Mallon. I was a minister in the office of the first and deputy
first minister.
In the dispute with Armenia over Nagorno-Karabakh, Azerbaijan has said
that is ready to give a high level of autonomy to Nagorno-Karabakh.
What would you advise for this kind of dispute, based on the Irish
example?
The first thing I need to make clear is that we cannot prescribe for
the people of Armenia or Azerbaijan the kind of solution that you
must seek. We can only describe the methods that we used or followed
in order to arrive at a solution here. The first provision that we
made was that all significant parties to the dispute had to be around
the table for discussions. And that secondly everything had to be on
the table, nothing could be ruled out beforehand, so that every party
to the dispute had to be able to make their case as they saw fit, and
have it discussed. So those are the two basic principles that I think
have to be followed if there is to be any resolution of any dispute
anywhere in the world. Every significant party must be involved in
discussions and everything must be on the table for discussion.
Ireland, as the OSCE chairing state next year, has said that conflict
settlements in the OSCE area will be a priority. What do you think
are the mechanisms or possibilities for Ireland to contribute to
a settlement?
Well, we have a lot of experience, given that we have an ongoing
quarrel here which has lasted hundreds of years and it has given
rise to repeated, sporadic outbreaks of violence, the most recent
of which lasted for about 25 years and caused about three and a half
thousand deaths in a small population of about one and three-quarter
million people. That's a very significant level of hostilities, a
very significant level of armed conflict. And we brought that to an
end, and therefore we have some experience of that. I believe that
every party in Ireland, whether of the Irish National persuasion or
of the Ulster Unionist persuasion, is very willing to meet with and
help any other peoples in the world who have disputes that they have
not yet satisfactorily resolved.
In particular in Ireland there is a very strong territorial dimension
to the problem, in that Northern Ireland, still being part of the UK,
nevertheless somewhere between 40 and 50 per cent of its population
is of the Irish national identity. And therefore the dispute is over
territory, whether Ulster so-called is British or whether Ulster is
Irish. We came to the conclusion that, well, it is both; it is both
Irish and British, there are upwards of eight or nine hundred thousand,
maybe a million people living here who identify themselves as British,
about seven or eight hundred thousand people who identify themselves
as Irish, therefore this territory cannot be exclusively Irish or
exclusively British. Therefore, if you are looking for a solution,
it has to be one not of exclusion but of inclusion.
Northern Ireland and secessionists in Karabakh want to be declared
independent states. Do you think that they have any chances of being
recognized by the international community or are there more chances
of being integrated into their own societies, Nagorno-Karabakh in
Azerbaijan and Northern Ireland in Britain?
Again, I stress that we're not in a position to prescribe a solution to
the Nagorno-Karabakh issue but it would appear that Nagorno-Karabakh
has been for some time, not for ever but for some time, part of
Azerbaijan, but it is populated largely by people of Armenian
nationality. How that issue is resolved is a matter for yourselves
to work out, but it would appear to me that it has to involve both
states, that Nagorno-Karabakh has a connection with both Azerbaijan
and Armenia, and frameworks need to be found to give recognition to
both linkages between the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh and
Armenia itself, and Nagorno-Karabakh and the jurisdiction to which
it has for some time been part. The framework of those linkages is
something that you have to work out to your own satisfaction. We have
some experience of that. We can give you examples of how we worked
it out in relation to Northern Ireland remaining part of the United
Kingdom until a majority wish it to be otherwise, but establishing
cross-border agencies and bodies within Ireland to give recognition
to the feeling that Irish nationals have that this Ireland is one
country. Human imagination is such that it is possible to devise
imaginative new frameworks that give recognition to the conflicting
aspirations and the conflicting linkages between peoples.
Denis Haughey is a founder member of the Social Democratic and Labour
Party (SDLP) and former party chairman. He was a senior member of
the SDLP negotiating team in the Northern Ireland peace talks that
led to the Good Friday Agreement.
news.az
Nov 28 2011
Azerbaijan
News.Az interviews Denis Haughey, ex-chairman of the Social Democratic
and Labour Party (SDLP) and a senior member of the SDLP team in
peace talks.
Could you introduce yourself? Are you still a member of the Northern
Ireland parliament?
No, I was a member of the Northern Ireland parliament or assembly and
I was a minister in the executive which was led by David Trimble and
Seamus Mallon. I was a minister in the office of the first and deputy
first minister.
In the dispute with Armenia over Nagorno-Karabakh, Azerbaijan has said
that is ready to give a high level of autonomy to Nagorno-Karabakh.
What would you advise for this kind of dispute, based on the Irish
example?
The first thing I need to make clear is that we cannot prescribe for
the people of Armenia or Azerbaijan the kind of solution that you
must seek. We can only describe the methods that we used or followed
in order to arrive at a solution here. The first provision that we
made was that all significant parties to the dispute had to be around
the table for discussions. And that secondly everything had to be on
the table, nothing could be ruled out beforehand, so that every party
to the dispute had to be able to make their case as they saw fit, and
have it discussed. So those are the two basic principles that I think
have to be followed if there is to be any resolution of any dispute
anywhere in the world. Every significant party must be involved in
discussions and everything must be on the table for discussion.
Ireland, as the OSCE chairing state next year, has said that conflict
settlements in the OSCE area will be a priority. What do you think
are the mechanisms or possibilities for Ireland to contribute to
a settlement?
Well, we have a lot of experience, given that we have an ongoing
quarrel here which has lasted hundreds of years and it has given
rise to repeated, sporadic outbreaks of violence, the most recent
of which lasted for about 25 years and caused about three and a half
thousand deaths in a small population of about one and three-quarter
million people. That's a very significant level of hostilities, a
very significant level of armed conflict. And we brought that to an
end, and therefore we have some experience of that. I believe that
every party in Ireland, whether of the Irish National persuasion or
of the Ulster Unionist persuasion, is very willing to meet with and
help any other peoples in the world who have disputes that they have
not yet satisfactorily resolved.
In particular in Ireland there is a very strong territorial dimension
to the problem, in that Northern Ireland, still being part of the UK,
nevertheless somewhere between 40 and 50 per cent of its population
is of the Irish national identity. And therefore the dispute is over
territory, whether Ulster so-called is British or whether Ulster is
Irish. We came to the conclusion that, well, it is both; it is both
Irish and British, there are upwards of eight or nine hundred thousand,
maybe a million people living here who identify themselves as British,
about seven or eight hundred thousand people who identify themselves
as Irish, therefore this territory cannot be exclusively Irish or
exclusively British. Therefore, if you are looking for a solution,
it has to be one not of exclusion but of inclusion.
Northern Ireland and secessionists in Karabakh want to be declared
independent states. Do you think that they have any chances of being
recognized by the international community or are there more chances
of being integrated into their own societies, Nagorno-Karabakh in
Azerbaijan and Northern Ireland in Britain?
Again, I stress that we're not in a position to prescribe a solution to
the Nagorno-Karabakh issue but it would appear that Nagorno-Karabakh
has been for some time, not for ever but for some time, part of
Azerbaijan, but it is populated largely by people of Armenian
nationality. How that issue is resolved is a matter for yourselves
to work out, but it would appear to me that it has to involve both
states, that Nagorno-Karabakh has a connection with both Azerbaijan
and Armenia, and frameworks need to be found to give recognition to
both linkages between the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh and
Armenia itself, and Nagorno-Karabakh and the jurisdiction to which
it has for some time been part. The framework of those linkages is
something that you have to work out to your own satisfaction. We have
some experience of that. We can give you examples of how we worked
it out in relation to Northern Ireland remaining part of the United
Kingdom until a majority wish it to be otherwise, but establishing
cross-border agencies and bodies within Ireland to give recognition
to the feeling that Irish nationals have that this Ireland is one
country. Human imagination is such that it is possible to devise
imaginative new frameworks that give recognition to the conflicting
aspirations and the conflicting linkages between peoples.
Denis Haughey is a founder member of the Social Democratic and Labour
Party (SDLP) and former party chairman. He was a senior member of
the SDLP negotiating team in the Northern Ireland peace talks that
led to the Good Friday Agreement.