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WE WERE UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND MEANING OF FREEDOM
Siranuysh Papyan
Story from Lragir.am News:
http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/interview25648.html
Published: 16:09:44 - 30/03/2012
Interview with Ashot Manucharyan, member of the Karabakh Committee
Mr. Manucharyan, before the party lists were in place, you proposed
a new model, namely full representation of the public sector in the
lists, which was not accepted, though the Heritage Party has partly
involved the public sector. Is there a change in the period of the
election campaign?
There are minor changes. When a cancer patient has a headache caused
by metastasis, you can give him a painkiller, and the pain will
be relieved for a short period but the patient will die unless you
cure the disease. Armenia is suffering from cancer, and the changes
proposed by the parties, even if they are a positive tendency, such
as the proposals of the Heritage, the Free Democrats or the Congress,
their effect will be like the effect of the painkiller on the cancer
patient. Metastasis comes from the Western civilization which is
over because we already have another man thinking comprehensively,
searching comprehensively, who wants to build his human world. We
must change this otherwise we continue to think that our problem is
that we are not like the United States where the president is not
corrupt, at least there are no such allegations, their ministers do
not seem to be corrupt, we have never heard about their oligarchs
running over people with their SUVs, instead a few years ago we heard
that hundreds of thousands of Americans became homeless because of
the financial balloons in their financial system causing a disaster,
which was named a financial and economic crisis. Who said that it was
a financial and economic crisis? Who said that the Congressmen who
are competent people failed to notice the balloons? Or were everyone
under the pressure of some logic which does not allow the public
administration system to reveal all the problems?
After all, billions of people were robbed. Where is the money? There
is ա doubt that this money goes to a group of people and people
are victims. In other words, this is how it should be in a system of
predators. There are winners who take everything, and losers who have
nothing. The problem is that we want to be in this system and be one
of its leaders. Progressive political systems are in search of this,
while more regressive social systems, the greens and others, propose
looking for another world. This is absurd. This search is commendable.
Now the most important issue is what this world will be like.
Which force is innovative and is not copying others?
In fact, the party framework is outside the political framework. They
are not doing politics, their activities in Armenia are limited to
the distribution of economic opportunities, while politics is done by
the intelligentsia, youth, NGOs (not all of them, most of them are in
the same framework of distribution) Armenia must try to find its place.
The mankind is in a quest, and why not, let it be born in Armenia. In
Armenia there are minds, and Armenia has had such experience.
What do you mean if it is not a civil rule, market economy, democracy,
what should the new system be?
Man has reached a point where its creative, mental, emotional and all
the natures must become complete and serve this human world, man is
the carrier of two worlds, the animal world, and the people's world.
Now the abilities of the people's world serve his animal nature.
Europe has departed from the European civilization which sought for
the ways of development but now it serves the animal world, ignoring
all the guidelines, principles, ideas of the European civilization.
Now when they say let us go to Europe, join the European civilization,
they should be mindful that these are controversial things.
What should this creative person do now, how should this human
person who serves human insults build his world? This person has
already understood the necessity to create self-organization and
self-governance systems.
What is a self-organization and self-governance system?
So far man has settled his issues through the state. The public
administration bodies are somehow formed within the state, and people's
issues are settled through these systems. Two problems occur.
One is the estrangement of the public administration machine and
people. This estrangement can be very deep, lead to a clash, in some
cases people cannot feel it unless people respond to the system like
Wall Street in the United States. Now the first issue is to eliminate
this estrangement. We cannot have people manage our affairs and we
have only one thing to do with governance - once in five years they
give us a piece of paper to toss into the box and they will decide
who will manage us. Then they see that we are full of doubt, so they
say form groups of five and establish civil rule, discuss problems,
such as the color of the fence, but they have nothing to do with what
is happening behind the fence. The civil system merely decides the
color of the fence, declares that it is a strategic issue, whereas
the strategic issue is whether the fence is needed or not. Most
importantly, whatever is behind the fence is outside the civil rule.
Whenever I say that people must represent a function of complete
governance it does not mean that everyone must attack the issue of
governance and start solving it. The point is that the competence
of the society is distributed among people, for instance, there is
nobody whose competence means anything. There is no unnecessary person,
everyone brings his or her contribution but of course there will be
a hierarchy around governance issues.
Mr. Manucharyan, the self-determined citizens are in Mashtots Park.
Will they create self-organization and self-governance systems?
"Self-determined" is a very important word because we use the words
independence, self-determination every now and then, meanwhile we are
in a fantastic dependent state, and we have never been more dependent
before, and our independence, our flag, our president's car are all
components of our independence, we don't have independence, and a
person is able to understand what life it lives, why it is so.
Dependence comes from having filled the head of man with false
philosophy, they say man in independent and can do whatever he wants
but the program is in his head, he is the robot, and dependence comes
from this. Now we must tell this person you are a thinking being. We
went through 88 when we had huge numbers of citizens who discussed
different issues, ecology gave birth to the movement.
Then man again became a robot?
Then we made a mistake with people, we said the progressive world
exists which has already found the formula, it turns out that if
we hold elections, have parties, freedom of speech, etc, the other
institutions will come and stand beside us. We stepped into this slough
and we destroyed the self-determined man, the free man, and the real
freedom of man, the creative spirit comes when the person gets rid of
passion, instead we introduced today's freedom of passion of Europe. We
were unable to understand the meaning of freedom. We replaced freedom
from passions with freedom of passions. We want to integrate with
a progressive place, Europe of Mozart, Hegel has nothing to do with
Europe we are speaking about. Now Europe needs a force to return the
European civilization to Europe. Armenia could do it, why not.
Mr. Manucharyan, you are speaking about Armenia which we can hardly
imagine in our reality. How is it possible to ensure this transition
with a huge part of the society living with the logic of 5,000 to
10,000 drams?
I bring up the issue of three main forces operating in the body of
our country which change and influence our life. One is the wholeness
of our people who does not perform the extraordinary function of
governance, the second part is a group which assumes this extraordinary
function. These are the organizers. There are two types of organizers,
the organizers of the false system, who were appointed as our kings,
viceroys, petty kings by the global stealing system, and this system
works, and the second type is those who stand up against them, such
as Mashtots Park activists, other groups, who try to organize in one
sphere or another. It is necessary to organize mind in any direction
of life, and they are walking along this way and little by little will
happen what happened in 1988, and all the spheres will be covered by
these groups. But the organizers are those people who are not bound
by the clichés of the world, they are seeking justice, often beauty,
truth, truth is beautiful. They are acceptable anywhere, all the
political parties, managers are ready to talk to them. The opposite is
happening, the prime minister invites, they do not go, this is very
important. We have also the wise people, to put it conventionally,
these are the people who know where to go and why, or it seems
to them that they know. In the soviet period, the intelligentsia
assumed the role of the wise people, and in fact most of them were
quite profound people but in the modern period the intelligentsia has
been totally disgraced, they spread falsehood for the sake of wealth,
money, they became fools they are traitors, they betray not only the
country and people but also themselves and their conscience. We can
see people gathered around famous people, intelligentsia who must be
the guardians of people against the oligarchs. Wise people must speak
the truth, they must be self-determined citizens, and they must not
be the victim of ideas coming from the outside and they must lead
people. This new idea is still to come.
Siranuysh Papyan
Story from Lragir.am News:
http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/interview25648.html
Published: 16:09:44 - 30/03/2012
Interview with Ashot Manucharyan, member of the Karabakh Committee
Mr. Manucharyan, before the party lists were in place, you proposed
a new model, namely full representation of the public sector in the
lists, which was not accepted, though the Heritage Party has partly
involved the public sector. Is there a change in the period of the
election campaign?
There are minor changes. When a cancer patient has a headache caused
by metastasis, you can give him a painkiller, and the pain will
be relieved for a short period but the patient will die unless you
cure the disease. Armenia is suffering from cancer, and the changes
proposed by the parties, even if they are a positive tendency, such
as the proposals of the Heritage, the Free Democrats or the Congress,
their effect will be like the effect of the painkiller on the cancer
patient. Metastasis comes from the Western civilization which is
over because we already have another man thinking comprehensively,
searching comprehensively, who wants to build his human world. We
must change this otherwise we continue to think that our problem is
that we are not like the United States where the president is not
corrupt, at least there are no such allegations, their ministers do
not seem to be corrupt, we have never heard about their oligarchs
running over people with their SUVs, instead a few years ago we heard
that hundreds of thousands of Americans became homeless because of
the financial balloons in their financial system causing a disaster,
which was named a financial and economic crisis. Who said that it was
a financial and economic crisis? Who said that the Congressmen who
are competent people failed to notice the balloons? Or were everyone
under the pressure of some logic which does not allow the public
administration system to reveal all the problems?
After all, billions of people were robbed. Where is the money? There
is ա doubt that this money goes to a group of people and people
are victims. In other words, this is how it should be in a system of
predators. There are winners who take everything, and losers who have
nothing. The problem is that we want to be in this system and be one
of its leaders. Progressive political systems are in search of this,
while more regressive social systems, the greens and others, propose
looking for another world. This is absurd. This search is commendable.
Now the most important issue is what this world will be like.
Which force is innovative and is not copying others?
In fact, the party framework is outside the political framework. They
are not doing politics, their activities in Armenia are limited to
the distribution of economic opportunities, while politics is done by
the intelligentsia, youth, NGOs (not all of them, most of them are in
the same framework of distribution) Armenia must try to find its place.
The mankind is in a quest, and why not, let it be born in Armenia. In
Armenia there are minds, and Armenia has had such experience.
What do you mean if it is not a civil rule, market economy, democracy,
what should the new system be?
Man has reached a point where its creative, mental, emotional and all
the natures must become complete and serve this human world, man is
the carrier of two worlds, the animal world, and the people's world.
Now the abilities of the people's world serve his animal nature.
Europe has departed from the European civilization which sought for
the ways of development but now it serves the animal world, ignoring
all the guidelines, principles, ideas of the European civilization.
Now when they say let us go to Europe, join the European civilization,
they should be mindful that these are controversial things.
What should this creative person do now, how should this human
person who serves human insults build his world? This person has
already understood the necessity to create self-organization and
self-governance systems.
What is a self-organization and self-governance system?
So far man has settled his issues through the state. The public
administration bodies are somehow formed within the state, and people's
issues are settled through these systems. Two problems occur.
One is the estrangement of the public administration machine and
people. This estrangement can be very deep, lead to a clash, in some
cases people cannot feel it unless people respond to the system like
Wall Street in the United States. Now the first issue is to eliminate
this estrangement. We cannot have people manage our affairs and we
have only one thing to do with governance - once in five years they
give us a piece of paper to toss into the box and they will decide
who will manage us. Then they see that we are full of doubt, so they
say form groups of five and establish civil rule, discuss problems,
such as the color of the fence, but they have nothing to do with what
is happening behind the fence. The civil system merely decides the
color of the fence, declares that it is a strategic issue, whereas
the strategic issue is whether the fence is needed or not. Most
importantly, whatever is behind the fence is outside the civil rule.
Whenever I say that people must represent a function of complete
governance it does not mean that everyone must attack the issue of
governance and start solving it. The point is that the competence
of the society is distributed among people, for instance, there is
nobody whose competence means anything. There is no unnecessary person,
everyone brings his or her contribution but of course there will be
a hierarchy around governance issues.
Mr. Manucharyan, the self-determined citizens are in Mashtots Park.
Will they create self-organization and self-governance systems?
"Self-determined" is a very important word because we use the words
independence, self-determination every now and then, meanwhile we are
in a fantastic dependent state, and we have never been more dependent
before, and our independence, our flag, our president's car are all
components of our independence, we don't have independence, and a
person is able to understand what life it lives, why it is so.
Dependence comes from having filled the head of man with false
philosophy, they say man in independent and can do whatever he wants
but the program is in his head, he is the robot, and dependence comes
from this. Now we must tell this person you are a thinking being. We
went through 88 when we had huge numbers of citizens who discussed
different issues, ecology gave birth to the movement.
Then man again became a robot?
Then we made a mistake with people, we said the progressive world
exists which has already found the formula, it turns out that if
we hold elections, have parties, freedom of speech, etc, the other
institutions will come and stand beside us. We stepped into this slough
and we destroyed the self-determined man, the free man, and the real
freedom of man, the creative spirit comes when the person gets rid of
passion, instead we introduced today's freedom of passion of Europe. We
were unable to understand the meaning of freedom. We replaced freedom
from passions with freedom of passions. We want to integrate with
a progressive place, Europe of Mozart, Hegel has nothing to do with
Europe we are speaking about. Now Europe needs a force to return the
European civilization to Europe. Armenia could do it, why not.
Mr. Manucharyan, you are speaking about Armenia which we can hardly
imagine in our reality. How is it possible to ensure this transition
with a huge part of the society living with the logic of 5,000 to
10,000 drams?
I bring up the issue of three main forces operating in the body of
our country which change and influence our life. One is the wholeness
of our people who does not perform the extraordinary function of
governance, the second part is a group which assumes this extraordinary
function. These are the organizers. There are two types of organizers,
the organizers of the false system, who were appointed as our kings,
viceroys, petty kings by the global stealing system, and this system
works, and the second type is those who stand up against them, such
as Mashtots Park activists, other groups, who try to organize in one
sphere or another. It is necessary to organize mind in any direction
of life, and they are walking along this way and little by little will
happen what happened in 1988, and all the spheres will be covered by
these groups. But the organizers are those people who are not bound
by the clichés of the world, they are seeking justice, often beauty,
truth, truth is beautiful. They are acceptable anywhere, all the
political parties, managers are ready to talk to them. The opposite is
happening, the prime minister invites, they do not go, this is very
important. We have also the wise people, to put it conventionally,
these are the people who know where to go and why, or it seems
to them that they know. In the soviet period, the intelligentsia
assumed the role of the wise people, and in fact most of them were
quite profound people but in the modern period the intelligentsia has
been totally disgraced, they spread falsehood for the sake of wealth,
money, they became fools they are traitors, they betray not only the
country and people but also themselves and their conscience. We can
see people gathered around famous people, intelligentsia who must be
the guardians of people against the oligarchs. Wise people must speak
the truth, they must be self-determined citizens, and they must not
be the victim of ideas coming from the outside and they must lead
people. This new idea is still to come.