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THEY SHOULD LEAVE ARMENIANS, TURKS, KURDS ALONE
Siranuysh Papyan
Story from Lragir.am News:
http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/interview26441.html
Published: 15:34:21 - 05/06/2012
Interview with Cemal Bozkurt, columnist of Jiyan.org, who is visiting
Armenia within the project of support to Armenia-Turkey rapprochment
co-implemented by Yerevan Press Club, Eurasia Partnership Foundation,
Armenian Business Association and International Human Development
Center.
Cemal, you think the Turkish government is taking people for chicken.
How does the Turkish society pursue the establishment of a civil
society and proving the opposite to the government?
Everyone is dealing with it and everyone wants it but there is no
mainstream. A lot of people go where there is power.
Is Armenia a few steps ahead towards the development of the civil
Society? The civil society succeeded in saving Trchkan waterfall,
Mashtots Park in Yerevan, now it is struggling to save the marketplace
from demolition.
There are many more similar demonstrations in Turkey. A demonstration
was held two days ago. And similar actions are so many that we are
already tired of them. The problem is that these demonstrations mainly
do not end in victory.
In your opinion, should the society or the government pursue
development of civil society?
People, of course. If people are unable to push this process upward,
the same thing will happen when the border between Armenia and Turkey
was closed, there was no demand, the border was closed.
Nevertheless, does achievement of real change in Turkey require change
of government, should democrats come to power and is it possible to
achieve through elections?
I am the one who believes in change through parliamentary elections
but now the society cannot make its demands heard, it seems to be
stuck somewhere. I talk to people, I say there is no alternative,
the situation is deadlocked, and they do not know what to do.
We held parliamentary elections on May 6, and the government parties
won, lavishly offering election bribes. Most people explain acceptance
of election bribes by lack of alternative.
They buy votes in Turkey too, such as with coal. The use of such
mechanisms enables every government to reproduce. The same system is
in Armenia.
Do you condemn electoral bribe when there is no alternative?
I do not believe that there is no alternative. Even if there is no
alternative, boycott is the right choice. If they do not participate,
they boycott thus. For instance, I boycotted the referendum on reforms
in the Turkish Constitution.
Is the youth in Turkey pro-active, claimant?
It is a complicated issue, there is a politicized part of the youth
who are few and there are serious hindrances to their organization
and solidarity. In Turkey, for instance, about 700 students have been
arrested, which is a message for others. In other words, these facts
do not indicate a democratic Turkey.
I notice three shortcomings - relationship with AKP and Islam,
relationship with Cemalism and the Kurdish issue. Everything rotates
around it. Socialists are part of the opposition but after the military
coup of 1980 they are very weak today.
On these days I was in Kayseri where we argued with Turkish historians
on the absence of cross on Armenian churches, the scarcity of Armenians
there, and other issues. Are there many distorted historical facts?
There are certainly a lot of people who deny and confirm historical
facts. There are always people who reject official historiography. To
tell the truth, I do not follow historians, I follow everyday life
and do analysis myself, proceeding from everyday life. For instance,
whatever part of Anatolia you visit, there are all Armenian monuments
and one does not need to consult a historian or read a historical fact
for that, everything is seen with the naked eye, all this is enough to
draw conclusions and analyze. I saw an interesting coincidence. There
is an Armenian community and there is not a church in Malatia, while
in Kayseri there is a church while there are a few Armenians. In
order to hold a religious event the Armenians of Malatya need to
come to Kayseri. Although I am an atheist, I can't help writing on
this situation.
The consequence of what is the genocide of 1915, in your opinion?
The Ottoman empire was on the verge of collapse, and it was trying to
bring into being the idea of pan-Turkism. As a result, the Armenians
lost everything, tried to exterminate the Armenian intelligentsia...
Cemal, in your opinion, how should the barrier between the Armenian
and Turkish peoples be overcome? How do you imagine the solution of
this issue?
In my opinion, the two peoples must be left alone. Depending on the
agenda, the direction adopted by the political figures, the policy
on Armenian either goes up or goes down. The elite which rules us
is there, and there are common people who have to accept the policy,
and we are helpless to do anything.
I want to give an example: Alexander the Great comes to Diogenes and
asks him what he wants. Diogenes says, 'Now move at least a little
out of the sun.' Thus, the governments must move out of the sun and
let the two peoples solve their problems.
I believe that if people are left alone, refrain from manipulations, no
problems will occur between peoples. They should leave the Armenians,
Turks, Kurds alone, and they must be able to solve the problems among
them, people must be able to interact with one another, come in touch.
What differences and similarities have you noticed while in Armenia?
I live in Istanbul, Istanbul is a mixed, cosmopolitan city but
Yerevan is very quiet, relaxed. Besides, I did not notice extremely
nationalistic expressions here.
Siranuysh Papyan
Story from Lragir.am News:
http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/interview26441.html
Published: 15:34:21 - 05/06/2012
Interview with Cemal Bozkurt, columnist of Jiyan.org, who is visiting
Armenia within the project of support to Armenia-Turkey rapprochment
co-implemented by Yerevan Press Club, Eurasia Partnership Foundation,
Armenian Business Association and International Human Development
Center.
Cemal, you think the Turkish government is taking people for chicken.
How does the Turkish society pursue the establishment of a civil
society and proving the opposite to the government?
Everyone is dealing with it and everyone wants it but there is no
mainstream. A lot of people go where there is power.
Is Armenia a few steps ahead towards the development of the civil
Society? The civil society succeeded in saving Trchkan waterfall,
Mashtots Park in Yerevan, now it is struggling to save the marketplace
from demolition.
There are many more similar demonstrations in Turkey. A demonstration
was held two days ago. And similar actions are so many that we are
already tired of them. The problem is that these demonstrations mainly
do not end in victory.
In your opinion, should the society or the government pursue
development of civil society?
People, of course. If people are unable to push this process upward,
the same thing will happen when the border between Armenia and Turkey
was closed, there was no demand, the border was closed.
Nevertheless, does achievement of real change in Turkey require change
of government, should democrats come to power and is it possible to
achieve through elections?
I am the one who believes in change through parliamentary elections
but now the society cannot make its demands heard, it seems to be
stuck somewhere. I talk to people, I say there is no alternative,
the situation is deadlocked, and they do not know what to do.
We held parliamentary elections on May 6, and the government parties
won, lavishly offering election bribes. Most people explain acceptance
of election bribes by lack of alternative.
They buy votes in Turkey too, such as with coal. The use of such
mechanisms enables every government to reproduce. The same system is
in Armenia.
Do you condemn electoral bribe when there is no alternative?
I do not believe that there is no alternative. Even if there is no
alternative, boycott is the right choice. If they do not participate,
they boycott thus. For instance, I boycotted the referendum on reforms
in the Turkish Constitution.
Is the youth in Turkey pro-active, claimant?
It is a complicated issue, there is a politicized part of the youth
who are few and there are serious hindrances to their organization
and solidarity. In Turkey, for instance, about 700 students have been
arrested, which is a message for others. In other words, these facts
do not indicate a democratic Turkey.
I notice three shortcomings - relationship with AKP and Islam,
relationship with Cemalism and the Kurdish issue. Everything rotates
around it. Socialists are part of the opposition but after the military
coup of 1980 they are very weak today.
On these days I was in Kayseri where we argued with Turkish historians
on the absence of cross on Armenian churches, the scarcity of Armenians
there, and other issues. Are there many distorted historical facts?
There are certainly a lot of people who deny and confirm historical
facts. There are always people who reject official historiography. To
tell the truth, I do not follow historians, I follow everyday life
and do analysis myself, proceeding from everyday life. For instance,
whatever part of Anatolia you visit, there are all Armenian monuments
and one does not need to consult a historian or read a historical fact
for that, everything is seen with the naked eye, all this is enough to
draw conclusions and analyze. I saw an interesting coincidence. There
is an Armenian community and there is not a church in Malatia, while
in Kayseri there is a church while there are a few Armenians. In
order to hold a religious event the Armenians of Malatya need to
come to Kayseri. Although I am an atheist, I can't help writing on
this situation.
The consequence of what is the genocide of 1915, in your opinion?
The Ottoman empire was on the verge of collapse, and it was trying to
bring into being the idea of pan-Turkism. As a result, the Armenians
lost everything, tried to exterminate the Armenian intelligentsia...
Cemal, in your opinion, how should the barrier between the Armenian
and Turkish peoples be overcome? How do you imagine the solution of
this issue?
In my opinion, the two peoples must be left alone. Depending on the
agenda, the direction adopted by the political figures, the policy
on Armenian either goes up or goes down. The elite which rules us
is there, and there are common people who have to accept the policy,
and we are helpless to do anything.
I want to give an example: Alexander the Great comes to Diogenes and
asks him what he wants. Diogenes says, 'Now move at least a little
out of the sun.' Thus, the governments must move out of the sun and
let the two peoples solve their problems.
I believe that if people are left alone, refrain from manipulations, no
problems will occur between peoples. They should leave the Armenians,
Turks, Kurds alone, and they must be able to solve the problems among
them, people must be able to interact with one another, come in touch.
What differences and similarities have you noticed while in Armenia?
I live in Istanbul, Istanbul is a mixed, cosmopolitan city but
Yerevan is very quiet, relaxed. Besides, I did not notice extremely
nationalistic expressions here.