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I CANNOT IMAGINE ANY REASONABLE ARMENIAN WHO WOULD GO TO VOTING BOOTH AND CAST VOTE IN FAVOUR OF ROBERT KOCHARYAN
168 Zham
Sept 25 2012
Armenia
Tigranuhi Martirosyan's interview with Vahan Shirkhanyan
Dismissals in Armenian government
[Martirosyan] After the well-known consultations held in the Armenian
government on 15 September, Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan made
harsh assessments of the activities of the Armenian government. These
assessments followed the decision to dismiss Hakob Beglaryan, the
head of the Centre for the Promotion of Procurements state-run
non-commercial organisation. In your opinion, who was this step
directed at?
[Shirkhanyan] If the president introduced substantial facts that
Beglaryan worked poorly, of course the prime minister should have
dismissed him. I cannot see anything strange here. It follows that
facts presented, although I am unaware of them, were substantiated,
since not only Beglaryan, but other employees as well were dismissed,
as far as I know.
[Passage omitted: Beglaryan says the Centre for Promotion of
Procurements may have become a first step of anti-corruption
activities, because this organisation may have a great corruption
rate due to being involved in the sphere of procurements.]
[Martirosyan] In fact, you do not share the opinion that these steps
succeeding each other are a part of an election PR campaign, and that
these steps are merely a show.
[Shirkhanyan] I want to perceive and understand this in a way that
the situation has reached a threshold, where it needs to be improved.
Replacement of prime minister unlikely
[Martirosyan] At present, the issue of replacing the prime minister is
much talked about. In your opinion, how realistic is the replacement
of the government and the prime minister?
[Shirkhanyan] There has always been such talk. The same was said during
the time in office of the previous prime minister [Serzh Sargsyan -
2007-2008]. Such talk has emerged from time to time, but nothing has
happened, and I am sure, nothing will happen now either.
Those, who speak about this, want to show that they care about people
much. This is rather a populist phenomenon, than a real one. A party
that would demand a real change of the government would present a
brilliant programme so that people would get convinced that the country
would change fundamentally through that programme, However, I have not
seen such a team, such a leader, such a programme up to the present.
[Martirosyan] Incidentally, it is the Prosperous Armenia [PA] party,
which is the loudest to voice the demand for change of the government.
Do you believe that the PA wishes to possess the office of the prime
minister?
[Shirkhanyan] Let them wish, let them demand. As for Azerbaijan, it
wants to have Karabakh. It wants and has demanded it for several years,
but what is the use of doing this? Political developments have their
own laws. If political parties made analysis, they would not have
made such statements. Let them analyse and see what is possible and
what is not. Otherwise, their suggestions to replace the government
and the president are unacceptable.
[Passage omitted: Shirkhanyan says a government can be replaced in
emergency situations only.]
[Martirosyan] It was mentioned that the spheres outlined by the
president belong to the ministries managed by the PA in the past. Do
you think this process is against the PA?
[Shirkhanyan] I said once that in my opinion, it is unnatural that
important branches of the government are given to political parties,
which do not bear responsibility for these branches. Those branches,
as a rule, start to deteriorate earlier than usual. This is true not
only of the PA but of all other parties.
[Martirosyan] If the RPA decides to cede the office of prime minister
to the PA, the latter would rejoin the coalition in such a case...
[Shirkhanyan] First of all, we should understand why the PA quit the
coalition. What has the PA done during those 10 years that it had
been in the coalition? I do not believe this is a realistic option.
[Corerspondent] Do you believe that the RPA needs the PA's support
and its return to the coalition?
[Shirkhanyan] The first thing the RPA needs is public support.
Activity, programmes, and existence of political parties in Armenia
are so faulty that maintaining power based on them has become
obsolete. People should become a support [for the government], not
the PA or any other party.
[Martirosyan] There is talk about backstage cooperation between the PA
and the RPA. Do you think it is possible for these two forces to unite
and have a single candidate in the [coming 2013] presidential election?
[Shirkhanyan] This depends on these two parties and their political
and moral-psychological status.
[Martirosyan] Do you believe that [former Armenian President] Robert
Kocharyan's return as a single candidate of the PA and RPA is likely
and necessary?
[Shirkhanyan] Prevention of Kocharyan's return is of the same
importance for any Armenian as the ratification of the Karabakh issue.
The harm which that person caused to Armenia cannot be measured
and we should make efforts for many years in order to restore the
consequences of that harm. I cannot imagine any reasonable Armenian,
who would go into a voting booth and cast a vote in his favour. Of
course, there will be people, who will vote out of their personal
interest, but they will vote not for Kocharyan, but against Armenia.
[Passage omitted: Shirkhanyan says it is unlikely that all three
Armenian presidents - Serzh Sarsgyan, Robert Kocharyan and Levon
Ter-Petrosyan will run in the coming 2013 presidential election.]
Resumption of hostilities in Karabakh ruled out
[Martirosyan]: As regards foreign policy, do you think that
prerequisites favourable for Armenia emerged after the incident in
Safarov's case ?[Ramil Safarov , an Azerbaijani officer convicted in
Hungary for killing an Armenian officer in in 2004, who was released
soon after he was extradited to Azerbaijan on 31 August 2012]
[Shirkhanyan] This issue has been developing in Armenia's favour up
to the present. I cannot see any prerequisites that would allow to say
that the issue would be solved in favour of Azerbaijan in the future.
The Karabakh issue is settled and it requires ratification. This
ratification will take place eventually.
[Martirosyan] What conditions should be created for accelerating
this process?
[Shirkhanyan] I cannot see a demand for acceleration. Artsakh
[Karabakh] and its economy have not been fully rehabilitated up to the
present. These tasks need to be addressed. A strong, combat-ready army
should be maintained and new allies should be obtained in international
relations, preserving the old ones at the same time.
Everything will be normal with the implementation of these steps. If
Azerbaijan hurries and tries to settle the issue by force, it will
lose everything, not only Karabakh.
[Martirosyan] So, you do not see grounds for the resumption of
hostilities?
[Shirkhanyan] No, absolutely. This is impossible on our side, and
unlikely on their side. Azerbaijan is aware of the balance of forces
and is aware of the issues it will face if hostilities are resumed.
The international community opposes resumption of hostilities.
[Martirosyan] In one of your interviews, you said that the Azerbaijani
troops are stuck in corruption and perversion, and are mainly
composed of not Azerbaijanis but of the Talysh, who hate the clan of
[Azerbaijani President Heydar] Aliyev. That is a factor, which makes
it impossible to speak about the strength of the Azerbaijani Army. Are
these the only factors which do not let Aliyev resume hostilities?
[Shirkhanyan] I confirm my words, of course. Azerbaijani troops are
composed of not only the Talysh, but also of other national minorities,
which have serious problems with the ruling clan. There is another
issue - no matter how much we speak about corruption in Armenia,
corruption in Azerbaijan has always been at a higher level.
Of course, they lack the combat spirit, and justifying criminals like
Safarov and making heroes of them are an attempt to raise that combat
spirit. In the meantime, combat spirit is maintained and enhanced
based on victory in Armenia.
[Martirosyan] There have been periodic reports that Azerbaijan is
purchasing military equipment speedily and that it does not care
about the opinion of the international community. Do these factors
show that Azerbaijan is nonetheless preparing for war?
[Shirkhanyan] It could not have been another way. Aliyev has
lost territory, he is the defeated side. He faces the problem of
maintaining power and will have to maintain a warlike situation in
order to convince his people that he cannot accept that loss and that
he will finally return his land. This is simply a political tool. He
wants to prove to the public that he is patriotic. He wants to be
elected again in order to prevent the opposition from becoming active.
Frankly speaking, I am not worried about this at all. Let him do it.
Of course, Aliyev understands that he cannot regain Karabakh through
a war.
[Translated from Armenian]
168 Zham
Sept 25 2012
Armenia
Tigranuhi Martirosyan's interview with Vahan Shirkhanyan
Dismissals in Armenian government
[Martirosyan] After the well-known consultations held in the Armenian
government on 15 September, Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan made
harsh assessments of the activities of the Armenian government. These
assessments followed the decision to dismiss Hakob Beglaryan, the
head of the Centre for the Promotion of Procurements state-run
non-commercial organisation. In your opinion, who was this step
directed at?
[Shirkhanyan] If the president introduced substantial facts that
Beglaryan worked poorly, of course the prime minister should have
dismissed him. I cannot see anything strange here. It follows that
facts presented, although I am unaware of them, were substantiated,
since not only Beglaryan, but other employees as well were dismissed,
as far as I know.
[Passage omitted: Beglaryan says the Centre for Promotion of
Procurements may have become a first step of anti-corruption
activities, because this organisation may have a great corruption
rate due to being involved in the sphere of procurements.]
[Martirosyan] In fact, you do not share the opinion that these steps
succeeding each other are a part of an election PR campaign, and that
these steps are merely a show.
[Shirkhanyan] I want to perceive and understand this in a way that
the situation has reached a threshold, where it needs to be improved.
Replacement of prime minister unlikely
[Martirosyan] At present, the issue of replacing the prime minister is
much talked about. In your opinion, how realistic is the replacement
of the government and the prime minister?
[Shirkhanyan] There has always been such talk. The same was said during
the time in office of the previous prime minister [Serzh Sargsyan -
2007-2008]. Such talk has emerged from time to time, but nothing has
happened, and I am sure, nothing will happen now either.
Those, who speak about this, want to show that they care about people
much. This is rather a populist phenomenon, than a real one. A party
that would demand a real change of the government would present a
brilliant programme so that people would get convinced that the country
would change fundamentally through that programme, However, I have not
seen such a team, such a leader, such a programme up to the present.
[Martirosyan] Incidentally, it is the Prosperous Armenia [PA] party,
which is the loudest to voice the demand for change of the government.
Do you believe that the PA wishes to possess the office of the prime
minister?
[Shirkhanyan] Let them wish, let them demand. As for Azerbaijan, it
wants to have Karabakh. It wants and has demanded it for several years,
but what is the use of doing this? Political developments have their
own laws. If political parties made analysis, they would not have
made such statements. Let them analyse and see what is possible and
what is not. Otherwise, their suggestions to replace the government
and the president are unacceptable.
[Passage omitted: Shirkhanyan says a government can be replaced in
emergency situations only.]
[Martirosyan] It was mentioned that the spheres outlined by the
president belong to the ministries managed by the PA in the past. Do
you think this process is against the PA?
[Shirkhanyan] I said once that in my opinion, it is unnatural that
important branches of the government are given to political parties,
which do not bear responsibility for these branches. Those branches,
as a rule, start to deteriorate earlier than usual. This is true not
only of the PA but of all other parties.
[Martirosyan] If the RPA decides to cede the office of prime minister
to the PA, the latter would rejoin the coalition in such a case...
[Shirkhanyan] First of all, we should understand why the PA quit the
coalition. What has the PA done during those 10 years that it had
been in the coalition? I do not believe this is a realistic option.
[Corerspondent] Do you believe that the RPA needs the PA's support
and its return to the coalition?
[Shirkhanyan] The first thing the RPA needs is public support.
Activity, programmes, and existence of political parties in Armenia
are so faulty that maintaining power based on them has become
obsolete. People should become a support [for the government], not
the PA or any other party.
[Martirosyan] There is talk about backstage cooperation between the PA
and the RPA. Do you think it is possible for these two forces to unite
and have a single candidate in the [coming 2013] presidential election?
[Shirkhanyan] This depends on these two parties and their political
and moral-psychological status.
[Martirosyan] Do you believe that [former Armenian President] Robert
Kocharyan's return as a single candidate of the PA and RPA is likely
and necessary?
[Shirkhanyan] Prevention of Kocharyan's return is of the same
importance for any Armenian as the ratification of the Karabakh issue.
The harm which that person caused to Armenia cannot be measured
and we should make efforts for many years in order to restore the
consequences of that harm. I cannot imagine any reasonable Armenian,
who would go into a voting booth and cast a vote in his favour. Of
course, there will be people, who will vote out of their personal
interest, but they will vote not for Kocharyan, but against Armenia.
[Passage omitted: Shirkhanyan says it is unlikely that all three
Armenian presidents - Serzh Sarsgyan, Robert Kocharyan and Levon
Ter-Petrosyan will run in the coming 2013 presidential election.]
Resumption of hostilities in Karabakh ruled out
[Martirosyan]: As regards foreign policy, do you think that
prerequisites favourable for Armenia emerged after the incident in
Safarov's case ?[Ramil Safarov , an Azerbaijani officer convicted in
Hungary for killing an Armenian officer in in 2004, who was released
soon after he was extradited to Azerbaijan on 31 August 2012]
[Shirkhanyan] This issue has been developing in Armenia's favour up
to the present. I cannot see any prerequisites that would allow to say
that the issue would be solved in favour of Azerbaijan in the future.
The Karabakh issue is settled and it requires ratification. This
ratification will take place eventually.
[Martirosyan] What conditions should be created for accelerating
this process?
[Shirkhanyan] I cannot see a demand for acceleration. Artsakh
[Karabakh] and its economy have not been fully rehabilitated up to the
present. These tasks need to be addressed. A strong, combat-ready army
should be maintained and new allies should be obtained in international
relations, preserving the old ones at the same time.
Everything will be normal with the implementation of these steps. If
Azerbaijan hurries and tries to settle the issue by force, it will
lose everything, not only Karabakh.
[Martirosyan] So, you do not see grounds for the resumption of
hostilities?
[Shirkhanyan] No, absolutely. This is impossible on our side, and
unlikely on their side. Azerbaijan is aware of the balance of forces
and is aware of the issues it will face if hostilities are resumed.
The international community opposes resumption of hostilities.
[Martirosyan] In one of your interviews, you said that the Azerbaijani
troops are stuck in corruption and perversion, and are mainly
composed of not Azerbaijanis but of the Talysh, who hate the clan of
[Azerbaijani President Heydar] Aliyev. That is a factor, which makes
it impossible to speak about the strength of the Azerbaijani Army. Are
these the only factors which do not let Aliyev resume hostilities?
[Shirkhanyan] I confirm my words, of course. Azerbaijani troops are
composed of not only the Talysh, but also of other national minorities,
which have serious problems with the ruling clan. There is another
issue - no matter how much we speak about corruption in Armenia,
corruption in Azerbaijan has always been at a higher level.
Of course, they lack the combat spirit, and justifying criminals like
Safarov and making heroes of them are an attempt to raise that combat
spirit. In the meantime, combat spirit is maintained and enhanced
based on victory in Armenia.
[Martirosyan] There have been periodic reports that Azerbaijan is
purchasing military equipment speedily and that it does not care
about the opinion of the international community. Do these factors
show that Azerbaijan is nonetheless preparing for war?
[Shirkhanyan] It could not have been another way. Aliyev has
lost territory, he is the defeated side. He faces the problem of
maintaining power and will have to maintain a warlike situation in
order to convince his people that he cannot accept that loss and that
he will finally return his land. This is simply a political tool. He
wants to prove to the public that he is patriotic. He wants to be
elected again in order to prevent the opposition from becoming active.
Frankly speaking, I am not worried about this at all. Let him do it.
Of course, Aliyev understands that he cannot regain Karabakh through
a war.
[Translated from Armenian]