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PROFESSOR YUSUF HALACOGLU: 8,500 ARMENIANS DIED DURING RELOCATION
Today's Zaman, Turkey
April 22 2013
The Armenian lobby has been working hard to establish tomorrow, April
24, as a day of international remembrance of the forced relocation
of Armenians. It has also been mobilizing international pressures
against Turkey. So says Professor Yusuf Halacoglu while discussing
Turkey's role in addressing the relocation.
In an interview with Today's Zaman, Halacoglu talks about what Turkey
can do to come to terms with the Armenian issue of 1915. He estimates
that a "maximum of 8,500 people died," mostly "due to attacks from
Kurdish and Arab clans."
Disagreeing with intellectual and professor Taner Akcam, who suggests
that Turkey should focus on a "Turkish" issue instead of an Armenian
one, Halacoglu says, "Hidden Armenians are slowly starting to show up,
and Turkey should be on alert for them."
How many Armenians in the Ottoman territories faced forced relocation
in 1915?
The decision to relocate Armenians was taken on May 25 or 26, 1915. On
June 16, relocation started from various parts of Anatolia, excluding
Van and Kars because these provinces were under occupation. Therefore,
Armenians in the eastern provinces were not relocated. They went to
Russia if they wanted to. About 500,000 Armenians from other regions
were relocated to Syria. Some migrated on their own. About 600,000
Armenians were relocated in total.
How many people died during the relocation?
A convoy would consist of 500 to 2,000 people. Due to attacks from
Kurdish and Arab clans, a maximum of 8,500 people died. But this is
just an estimate.
How did these deaths occur?
Deaths occurred mostly because of attacks on convoys. As a measure,
the state assigned gendarmes for their protection. Therefore, the
deaths did not escalate.
Do you believe there was a genocide in 1915? Why?
For the 1915 incidents to be defined as genocide, the state must
have killed the people from these convoys intentionally. Rather,
since the fall of 1915, 1,673 people had been court-martialed upon
order of Talat PaĆ~_a for conducting those attacks and stealing the
goods of Armenians. They were penalized. The trial of these people
ended in February and May 1916, and 67 were sentenced to death, 68
to penal servitude and 524 to prison for two to five years. That is,
the offenders were tried and punished by the state. Therefore, it is
impossible to call it genocide.
Contrary to the claims, Turks did not intentionally meddle with
Armenians. On the other hand, German archives note: "If the Turkish
army had not protected them, Armenians would have been killed by
Kurds." This indicates that the Turkish army, i.e., the Turkish state,
protected Armenians.
Were 1.5 million Armenians killed, as the Armenians claim? According
to the documents of the League of Nations, the precursor to the United
Nations, there were 288,000 Armenians in 1922. About 100,000 Armenians
converted to Islam and 17,873 Armenians migrated to other countries.
Therefore, it is documented that there were 1,002,000 Armenians alive.
As a comparison, the Armenian population during World War I was
250,000 to 300,000. According to these records, 190,000 Armenians
were outside Turkey's borders, i.e., in Russia; 160,000 Armenians in
Etchmiadzin and 30,000 Armenians in Akhalkalaki died of cholera.
Therefore, there was no massacre. These figures represent those who
died of diseases and hunger. The number of Armenians who were killed
by some groups in Turkey is about 8,000. It is a big lie to say that
the Armenians faced genocide.
What do you think about the Armenians' killing Turks?
This matter was better recorded. The number of Turks and Muslims
who were killed by Armenians during the one year before late-1915
is 128,000. Van was invaded by Russian-led Armenians. The city
surrendered on May 17. About 80,000 people were killed in Van, and
this occurred before the relocation. Therefore, it is wrong to say
that the Armenians killed Turks to avenge their relocation. After the
relocation, Armenians gangs killed 518,000 people during World War I.
How can the Armenian issue be settled?
This issue will apparently not be settled in the academic
sphere. This is because the Armenians never agree to discuss it on
academic platforms. Turkey's proposal to set up a joint commission of
historians to examine the incidents is not accepted by the Armenians
and European countries whose parliaments passed Armenian genocide
bills. The issue has become highly politicized; so it will be settled
through political channels.
It must be noted that Article 11 of the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights enshrines the right of defense by prohibiting trial or
sentencing of any person without defense. As they pass those bills,
European parliaments did not grant Turkey any right of defense. They
didn't try Turkey as well. Parliaments are not courts or tribunals.
They act not on compliance with the declaration they prepared and
ratified.
What we must do is to invite European parliamentarians to Turkey and
explain the situation to them. Turkey may make the following call on
the countries that passed genocide bills: Come and convince us and make
us accept your case. Otherwise, we will assume that you pursue hostile
attitudes against us and we will change our relations accordingly.
What do you expect to happen in 2015 on the 100th anniversary of the
forced relocation?
Hidden Armenians are slowly starting to show up. Turkey should be on
alert for them. For instance, the immovable property matter will be
brought to the agenda. Here, those who are at the helm of the state
must be on alert. Some government officials have suggested that
Armenians abroad may return to Turkey. But the Treaty of Lausanne
makes it clear that the Armenians cannot return. The state must
refrain from such seemingly humanitarian calls. You cannot govern a
state with good faith. You must verify if your interlocutors assume
good attitudes as well.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-313381-professor-yusuf-halacoglu-8500-armenians-died-during-relocation.html
Today's Zaman, Turkey
April 22 2013
The Armenian lobby has been working hard to establish tomorrow, April
24, as a day of international remembrance of the forced relocation
of Armenians. It has also been mobilizing international pressures
against Turkey. So says Professor Yusuf Halacoglu while discussing
Turkey's role in addressing the relocation.
In an interview with Today's Zaman, Halacoglu talks about what Turkey
can do to come to terms with the Armenian issue of 1915. He estimates
that a "maximum of 8,500 people died," mostly "due to attacks from
Kurdish and Arab clans."
Disagreeing with intellectual and professor Taner Akcam, who suggests
that Turkey should focus on a "Turkish" issue instead of an Armenian
one, Halacoglu says, "Hidden Armenians are slowly starting to show up,
and Turkey should be on alert for them."
How many Armenians in the Ottoman territories faced forced relocation
in 1915?
The decision to relocate Armenians was taken on May 25 or 26, 1915. On
June 16, relocation started from various parts of Anatolia, excluding
Van and Kars because these provinces were under occupation. Therefore,
Armenians in the eastern provinces were not relocated. They went to
Russia if they wanted to. About 500,000 Armenians from other regions
were relocated to Syria. Some migrated on their own. About 600,000
Armenians were relocated in total.
How many people died during the relocation?
A convoy would consist of 500 to 2,000 people. Due to attacks from
Kurdish and Arab clans, a maximum of 8,500 people died. But this is
just an estimate.
How did these deaths occur?
Deaths occurred mostly because of attacks on convoys. As a measure,
the state assigned gendarmes for their protection. Therefore, the
deaths did not escalate.
Do you believe there was a genocide in 1915? Why?
For the 1915 incidents to be defined as genocide, the state must
have killed the people from these convoys intentionally. Rather,
since the fall of 1915, 1,673 people had been court-martialed upon
order of Talat PaĆ~_a for conducting those attacks and stealing the
goods of Armenians. They were penalized. The trial of these people
ended in February and May 1916, and 67 were sentenced to death, 68
to penal servitude and 524 to prison for two to five years. That is,
the offenders were tried and punished by the state. Therefore, it is
impossible to call it genocide.
Contrary to the claims, Turks did not intentionally meddle with
Armenians. On the other hand, German archives note: "If the Turkish
army had not protected them, Armenians would have been killed by
Kurds." This indicates that the Turkish army, i.e., the Turkish state,
protected Armenians.
Were 1.5 million Armenians killed, as the Armenians claim? According
to the documents of the League of Nations, the precursor to the United
Nations, there were 288,000 Armenians in 1922. About 100,000 Armenians
converted to Islam and 17,873 Armenians migrated to other countries.
Therefore, it is documented that there were 1,002,000 Armenians alive.
As a comparison, the Armenian population during World War I was
250,000 to 300,000. According to these records, 190,000 Armenians
were outside Turkey's borders, i.e., in Russia; 160,000 Armenians in
Etchmiadzin and 30,000 Armenians in Akhalkalaki died of cholera.
Therefore, there was no massacre. These figures represent those who
died of diseases and hunger. The number of Armenians who were killed
by some groups in Turkey is about 8,000. It is a big lie to say that
the Armenians faced genocide.
What do you think about the Armenians' killing Turks?
This matter was better recorded. The number of Turks and Muslims
who were killed by Armenians during the one year before late-1915
is 128,000. Van was invaded by Russian-led Armenians. The city
surrendered on May 17. About 80,000 people were killed in Van, and
this occurred before the relocation. Therefore, it is wrong to say
that the Armenians killed Turks to avenge their relocation. After the
relocation, Armenians gangs killed 518,000 people during World War I.
How can the Armenian issue be settled?
This issue will apparently not be settled in the academic
sphere. This is because the Armenians never agree to discuss it on
academic platforms. Turkey's proposal to set up a joint commission of
historians to examine the incidents is not accepted by the Armenians
and European countries whose parliaments passed Armenian genocide
bills. The issue has become highly politicized; so it will be settled
through political channels.
It must be noted that Article 11 of the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights enshrines the right of defense by prohibiting trial or
sentencing of any person without defense. As they pass those bills,
European parliaments did not grant Turkey any right of defense. They
didn't try Turkey as well. Parliaments are not courts or tribunals.
They act not on compliance with the declaration they prepared and
ratified.
What we must do is to invite European parliamentarians to Turkey and
explain the situation to them. Turkey may make the following call on
the countries that passed genocide bills: Come and convince us and make
us accept your case. Otherwise, we will assume that you pursue hostile
attitudes against us and we will change our relations accordingly.
What do you expect to happen in 2015 on the 100th anniversary of the
forced relocation?
Hidden Armenians are slowly starting to show up. Turkey should be on
alert for them. For instance, the immovable property matter will be
brought to the agenda. Here, those who are at the helm of the state
must be on alert. Some government officials have suggested that
Armenians abroad may return to Turkey. But the Treaty of Lausanne
makes it clear that the Armenians cannot return. The state must
refrain from such seemingly humanitarian calls. You cannot govern a
state with good faith. You must verify if your interlocutors assume
good attitudes as well.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-313381-professor-yusuf-halacoglu-8500-armenians-died-during-relocation.html