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VAGHARSHAK HAROUTIUNYAN: WE HAVE CHANGED THE GEOPOLITICAL SITUATION IN THE REGION AND ARMENIA'S IMPORTANCE IS BASED ON THIS VERY FACTOR
ArmInfo's interview with Leader of the National Revival Party, former
defense minister of Armenia, Lt.General Vagharshak Haroutiunyan.
by David Stepanyan
http://www.arminfo.am/index.cfm?objectid=2A576990-6FBD-11E2-BACCF6327207157C
Tuesday, February 5, 20:50
Russia's Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu and Secretary General of
the Collective Security Treaty Organization visited Armenia in late
January. Why, in your opinion, did they visit the country at one and
the same time?
The recent visits by the Russian military and political leadership
to Yerevan bear no relation to the upcoming presidential election
in Armenia. After signing the Agreement extending deployment of the
Russian military base in the territory of Armenia in 2010, the tasks
of the base have significantly changed. In addition, Russia assumed
responsibility to provide the Armenian Armed Forces with up-to-date
compatible arms. The Military-Technical Cooperation Agreement to be
signed by Russia and Armenia is part of the provisions of the Agreement
signed in 2010. In 1995 when the base was established, its task was to
provide security and protect the Armenian-Turkish and Armenian-Iranian
borders, as Georgia and Azerbaijan were CIS members then. Nevertheless,
now Russia agreed to provide security of Armenia also on the border
with Azerbaijan. One should understand what it means.
If you please, I would formulate the question more simply: if tomorrow
Azerbaijan starts a war, will Russians troops get on their feet in
Noyemberyan, Goris or Ijevan?
Of course, they will. After signing the above Agreement, Russia and
Armenia developed a plan of joint use of force. The plan implies
use of Armenian and Russian Armed Forces in case of relevant threat,
including by Azerbaijan.
One more example: all the units of the 102nd base have an assigned
mission in case of a threat on the Armenian-Turkish border. All the
exercises Russia conducts in the territory of Armenia in peacetime
pursue one scenario - to rebuff aggression and make counter attacks.
We have a special air squadron at Erebuni Airport that provides
security of Armenia's airspace alongside with the divisions of S-300
air defense systems. These aircrafts are standing alert. If an unknown
aircraft approaches the border, the staff will be announced ready
automatically. So, in case of a threat by Turkey and Azerbaijan,
the command of the base will not have to wait for instructions from
Moscow because it has an assigned mission to rebuff any aggression.
There is an opinion that the new military-technical cooperation
agreement between Armenia and Russia proves that Russia is turning
its face back towards its key ally after having sold S-300 systems
to Azerbaijan.
This is a general practice in the world. There have been such cases in
the Middle East for example. The Russian S-300 air defense missiles
sold by Moscow to Azerbaijan upgrade the combat efficiency of the
Azerbaijani army, indeed. Those systems contribute to the offensive
capabilities of Azerbaijan. From the political point of view those
missile systems increase the probability of another aggression by
Azerbaijan. In addition, Azerbaijan has enough funds to acquire similar
long-range missile detection systems also from other countries. So,
selling S-300 to Azerbaijan Moscow strived to increase its military-
political influence on Baku through military-technical cooperation,
I think. Sale of S-300 is accompanied with sale of spare parts
and retraining of servicemen. I think, the given issue was to be
coordinated with Yerevan considering the Collective Security Treaty
requires the signatory-states to refrain from any actions that may be
directed against other signatories. I don't rule out certain corrupt
actions by the Russian Defense Ministry, because the situation at
that structure is not good after dismissal of Anatoly Serdyukov. The
cost-effectiveness of that acquisition of Azerbaijan against Armenia
is not successful. To fight our aviation Azerbaijan has enough
medium-range missile detection systems Osa, Oka and others. So,
I think that Baku wasted hundreds of millions of dollars.
Yes, but there is also a missile component...
When it comes to neutralization of our missile potential, the situation
is different. S-300 missile systems have various missiles.
In order to use the given systems for ballistic-missile defense,
Azerbaijan will need special missiles, because the existing ones are
not efficient for the given purpose.
In other words, the S-300 systems will not help Azerbaijan to protect
its oil and gas facilities, like the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline,
will they?
No, they will not. To do it, they will need relevant missiles.
What will be the military expediency of the launch of Stepanakert
Airport?
To ensure delay-free delivery of military cargoes to the Nagorno
Karabakh Republic, both an airport and reliable overland communications
are required. An operating airport is a very important factor for
military aircrafts in case the Karabakh conflict escalates.
In particular, the arrival time is cut and the air efforts in
increased. So, we can settle the same task using much less aircrafts,
which is very important. besides the given problem, there is another
issue on agenda i.e. civil aviation. The population of Nagorno
Karabakh cannot wait until Azerbaijan wants to settle the issue that
has been protracted for 20 years. Therefore, I am more than sure that
the Stepanakert Airport will operate despite threats. No one in the
world will understand Azerbaijan if it ventures to hit civil planes.
Many in Armenia stress the need to restart the Abkhazian railway. In
what a way can this project be carried out and if carried out won't
it change the existing geo-political status quo in the region?
The Abkhazian conflict and closed communications are, first of all, in
favor of Turkey, Azerbaijan and the forces not interested in Russia's
strengthening and integration of Caucasus and Russia. Hillary Clinton
has already made statements confirming that and their motivation
is clear. Ankara is currently trying to refocus Georgia and Armenia
at Turkey with all its consequences. Closed Abkhazia is in favor of
Azerbaijan as well, because that factor weakens Armenia and Georgia.
Tbilisi will become directly dependent on the Turkish-Azeri alliance.
It is not in favor of Armenia, Russia, Georgia, and Abkhazia.
Unfortunately, because of various ideas countries are not always
guided with their own interests when making important decisions.
Ivanishvili made a very important statement announcing an intention
to open the road with Abkhazia. If he is consistent in that issue, we
will have quite different situation that will be within the interests
of Georgia as well.
What is the problem then? It is for Moscow, Tbilisi and Sukhumi to
decide, isn't it?
It is senseless for Georgia to keep closed the Abkhazian
communications, because Abkhazia has direct sea and overland
communication with Russia. Therefore, keeping the railway closed means
to get rid of the boat captain by means of drowning him. However,
Ankara, Baku and some Western states exert serious pressure on
Georgia in the given issue. Therefore, Armenia, Russia and Abkhazia
should exert genuine efforts to help Georgia in the issue of opening
the railway. I am sure that opening of the Abkhazian section of the
railway will change the geopolitical situation in the region with all
its consequences. Iran and China are also interested in that. That is,
the issue is of global importance.
It seems that the restart of the Abkhazian railway will bring Armenia
and even Georgia into the customs and later Eurasian unions...
The talk that it is not promising for Armenia to join the Customs
Union for lack of common borders is groundless. For communications
with Russia we have ferry in Poti, a short haul distance via Upper
Lars, a total of 200km. In the meanwhile the EU member-states are at a
distance of thousands of kilometers from Armenia. So, proceeding from
the logic of the people who say that Armenia's joining the Customs
Union is unpromising, we should forget about the EU.
Many people in Yerevan believe that Armenia can combine its security
partnership with Russia with economic cooperation with the West. Can
it?
This is not serious. The military-political cooperation is aimed at
protection of economic interests, because there will be no economy
without security provision. Economic development depends on security.
It was the army that brought Armenia's biggest achievement in terms
of 8,000sq/km territory. These are trillions. We have changed the
geopolitical situation in the region and Armenia's importance depends
on this very factor.
To forecast is a thankless occupation. Still, what impulses do you
expect in the Nagorno-Karabakh peace process?
The Karabakh conflict cannot be settled today, as there are no
conditions and pre-conditions for that. Armenia is not going to cede
Karabakh. For its part, Azerbaijan is not going to recognize Karabakh.
The force option will not result in settlement of the Karabakh
conflict, taking into consideration the combat effectiveness of
our army. Moreover, Russia's presence hinders interference of other
countries. Russia's president and foreign minister said about it,
as Moscow is not interested in it. The refusal of the Gabali radar
station and new obligations taken by Moscow in the context of providing
Armenia's security are evidence of the fact that Moscow will not
let resolving of the Karabakh conflict by means of force. For this
reason, Azerbaijan cannot settle the conflict by means of force. And
if Turkey helps, it will lead to CSTO-NATO confrontation. At present
it is impossible to involve Nagorno-Karabakh in the conflict around
Iran. Such a scenario is possible only after falling of the Asad's
regime in Syria.
There are certain defense borders in the military sphere as well as
in the sphere of policy. Within the frames of this logic, China and
Russia will strongly protect Iran. If in case of Libya there was one
approach, and quite another one in case of Syria, in case of Iran,
Beijing and Moscow will make quite another steps. Losing of the
Iranian oil and gas will deal a strong blow on China's development
rates and China will do everything possible to protect its interests.
The first step in this direction was a military ship sent by China
to Syria's costs. So, one cannot wait for hot phase of the Karabakh
conflict from the southern side either. I think that at present not
external but internal threats are more dangerous for Armenia. And our
ability to confront external threats and our future depend on their
effective and fast settlement.
ArmInfo's interview with Leader of the National Revival Party, former
defense minister of Armenia, Lt.General Vagharshak Haroutiunyan.
by David Stepanyan
http://www.arminfo.am/index.cfm?objectid=2A576990-6FBD-11E2-BACCF6327207157C
Tuesday, February 5, 20:50
Russia's Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu and Secretary General of
the Collective Security Treaty Organization visited Armenia in late
January. Why, in your opinion, did they visit the country at one and
the same time?
The recent visits by the Russian military and political leadership
to Yerevan bear no relation to the upcoming presidential election
in Armenia. After signing the Agreement extending deployment of the
Russian military base in the territory of Armenia in 2010, the tasks
of the base have significantly changed. In addition, Russia assumed
responsibility to provide the Armenian Armed Forces with up-to-date
compatible arms. The Military-Technical Cooperation Agreement to be
signed by Russia and Armenia is part of the provisions of the Agreement
signed in 2010. In 1995 when the base was established, its task was to
provide security and protect the Armenian-Turkish and Armenian-Iranian
borders, as Georgia and Azerbaijan were CIS members then. Nevertheless,
now Russia agreed to provide security of Armenia also on the border
with Azerbaijan. One should understand what it means.
If you please, I would formulate the question more simply: if tomorrow
Azerbaijan starts a war, will Russians troops get on their feet in
Noyemberyan, Goris or Ijevan?
Of course, they will. After signing the above Agreement, Russia and
Armenia developed a plan of joint use of force. The plan implies
use of Armenian and Russian Armed Forces in case of relevant threat,
including by Azerbaijan.
One more example: all the units of the 102nd base have an assigned
mission in case of a threat on the Armenian-Turkish border. All the
exercises Russia conducts in the territory of Armenia in peacetime
pursue one scenario - to rebuff aggression and make counter attacks.
We have a special air squadron at Erebuni Airport that provides
security of Armenia's airspace alongside with the divisions of S-300
air defense systems. These aircrafts are standing alert. If an unknown
aircraft approaches the border, the staff will be announced ready
automatically. So, in case of a threat by Turkey and Azerbaijan,
the command of the base will not have to wait for instructions from
Moscow because it has an assigned mission to rebuff any aggression.
There is an opinion that the new military-technical cooperation
agreement between Armenia and Russia proves that Russia is turning
its face back towards its key ally after having sold S-300 systems
to Azerbaijan.
This is a general practice in the world. There have been such cases in
the Middle East for example. The Russian S-300 air defense missiles
sold by Moscow to Azerbaijan upgrade the combat efficiency of the
Azerbaijani army, indeed. Those systems contribute to the offensive
capabilities of Azerbaijan. From the political point of view those
missile systems increase the probability of another aggression by
Azerbaijan. In addition, Azerbaijan has enough funds to acquire similar
long-range missile detection systems also from other countries. So,
selling S-300 to Azerbaijan Moscow strived to increase its military-
political influence on Baku through military-technical cooperation,
I think. Sale of S-300 is accompanied with sale of spare parts
and retraining of servicemen. I think, the given issue was to be
coordinated with Yerevan considering the Collective Security Treaty
requires the signatory-states to refrain from any actions that may be
directed against other signatories. I don't rule out certain corrupt
actions by the Russian Defense Ministry, because the situation at
that structure is not good after dismissal of Anatoly Serdyukov. The
cost-effectiveness of that acquisition of Azerbaijan against Armenia
is not successful. To fight our aviation Azerbaijan has enough
medium-range missile detection systems Osa, Oka and others. So,
I think that Baku wasted hundreds of millions of dollars.
Yes, but there is also a missile component...
When it comes to neutralization of our missile potential, the situation
is different. S-300 missile systems have various missiles.
In order to use the given systems for ballistic-missile defense,
Azerbaijan will need special missiles, because the existing ones are
not efficient for the given purpose.
In other words, the S-300 systems will not help Azerbaijan to protect
its oil and gas facilities, like the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline,
will they?
No, they will not. To do it, they will need relevant missiles.
What will be the military expediency of the launch of Stepanakert
Airport?
To ensure delay-free delivery of military cargoes to the Nagorno
Karabakh Republic, both an airport and reliable overland communications
are required. An operating airport is a very important factor for
military aircrafts in case the Karabakh conflict escalates.
In particular, the arrival time is cut and the air efforts in
increased. So, we can settle the same task using much less aircrafts,
which is very important. besides the given problem, there is another
issue on agenda i.e. civil aviation. The population of Nagorno
Karabakh cannot wait until Azerbaijan wants to settle the issue that
has been protracted for 20 years. Therefore, I am more than sure that
the Stepanakert Airport will operate despite threats. No one in the
world will understand Azerbaijan if it ventures to hit civil planes.
Many in Armenia stress the need to restart the Abkhazian railway. In
what a way can this project be carried out and if carried out won't
it change the existing geo-political status quo in the region?
The Abkhazian conflict and closed communications are, first of all, in
favor of Turkey, Azerbaijan and the forces not interested in Russia's
strengthening and integration of Caucasus and Russia. Hillary Clinton
has already made statements confirming that and their motivation
is clear. Ankara is currently trying to refocus Georgia and Armenia
at Turkey with all its consequences. Closed Abkhazia is in favor of
Azerbaijan as well, because that factor weakens Armenia and Georgia.
Tbilisi will become directly dependent on the Turkish-Azeri alliance.
It is not in favor of Armenia, Russia, Georgia, and Abkhazia.
Unfortunately, because of various ideas countries are not always
guided with their own interests when making important decisions.
Ivanishvili made a very important statement announcing an intention
to open the road with Abkhazia. If he is consistent in that issue, we
will have quite different situation that will be within the interests
of Georgia as well.
What is the problem then? It is for Moscow, Tbilisi and Sukhumi to
decide, isn't it?
It is senseless for Georgia to keep closed the Abkhazian
communications, because Abkhazia has direct sea and overland
communication with Russia. Therefore, keeping the railway closed means
to get rid of the boat captain by means of drowning him. However,
Ankara, Baku and some Western states exert serious pressure on
Georgia in the given issue. Therefore, Armenia, Russia and Abkhazia
should exert genuine efforts to help Georgia in the issue of opening
the railway. I am sure that opening of the Abkhazian section of the
railway will change the geopolitical situation in the region with all
its consequences. Iran and China are also interested in that. That is,
the issue is of global importance.
It seems that the restart of the Abkhazian railway will bring Armenia
and even Georgia into the customs and later Eurasian unions...
The talk that it is not promising for Armenia to join the Customs
Union for lack of common borders is groundless. For communications
with Russia we have ferry in Poti, a short haul distance via Upper
Lars, a total of 200km. In the meanwhile the EU member-states are at a
distance of thousands of kilometers from Armenia. So, proceeding from
the logic of the people who say that Armenia's joining the Customs
Union is unpromising, we should forget about the EU.
Many people in Yerevan believe that Armenia can combine its security
partnership with Russia with economic cooperation with the West. Can
it?
This is not serious. The military-political cooperation is aimed at
protection of economic interests, because there will be no economy
without security provision. Economic development depends on security.
It was the army that brought Armenia's biggest achievement in terms
of 8,000sq/km territory. These are trillions. We have changed the
geopolitical situation in the region and Armenia's importance depends
on this very factor.
To forecast is a thankless occupation. Still, what impulses do you
expect in the Nagorno-Karabakh peace process?
The Karabakh conflict cannot be settled today, as there are no
conditions and pre-conditions for that. Armenia is not going to cede
Karabakh. For its part, Azerbaijan is not going to recognize Karabakh.
The force option will not result in settlement of the Karabakh
conflict, taking into consideration the combat effectiveness of
our army. Moreover, Russia's presence hinders interference of other
countries. Russia's president and foreign minister said about it,
as Moscow is not interested in it. The refusal of the Gabali radar
station and new obligations taken by Moscow in the context of providing
Armenia's security are evidence of the fact that Moscow will not
let resolving of the Karabakh conflict by means of force. For this
reason, Azerbaijan cannot settle the conflict by means of force. And
if Turkey helps, it will lead to CSTO-NATO confrontation. At present
it is impossible to involve Nagorno-Karabakh in the conflict around
Iran. Such a scenario is possible only after falling of the Asad's
regime in Syria.
There are certain defense borders in the military sphere as well as
in the sphere of policy. Within the frames of this logic, China and
Russia will strongly protect Iran. If in case of Libya there was one
approach, and quite another one in case of Syria, in case of Iran,
Beijing and Moscow will make quite another steps. Losing of the
Iranian oil and gas will deal a strong blow on China's development
rates and China will do everything possible to protect its interests.
The first step in this direction was a military ship sent by China
to Syria's costs. So, one cannot wait for hot phase of the Karabakh
conflict from the southern side either. I think that at present not
external but internal threats are more dangerous for Armenia. And our
ability to confront external threats and our future depend on their
effective and fast settlement.