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Conversation With...Dr. Israel Charny

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  • Conversation With...Dr. Israel Charny

    CONVERSATION WITH...DR. ISRAEL CHARNY

    Connecticut Jewish Ledger
    Sept 11 2013

    Posted by JudieJacobson on September 11, 2013

    By Cindy Mindell

    Dr. Israel Charny

    A world premiere exhibition on the pioneering work of genocide scholar
    and psychotherapist Israel W. Charny will open at the University of
    Hartford on Monday, Sept. 23.

    Born in Brooklyn in 1931, Charny has lived in Israel since 1973. He
    completed his training in clinical psychology in the U.S. at the
    University of Rochester in 1957. Over the course of his career, he
    has become one of the world's leading experts on genocide, a pioneer
    in the field of genocide studies, and the founder of the Institute
    on the Holocaust and Genocide in Jerusalem, all the while remaining
    a practicing psychotherapist and acknowledged expert on marriage
    and family therapy in Israel. Charny is now retired professor of
    psychology and family therapy at Hebrew University of Jerusalem and
    Tel Aviv University.

    "Genocide: Israel Charny and the Scourge of the Twentieth Century"
    will be on view in the Museum of Jewish Civilization at the University
    of Hartford through April 2014. The presentation charts the life and
    career of this pathbreaking scholar, while highlighting photography
    of sites where three 20th century genocides took place: the 1915
    Armenian Genocide, the Holocaust or Shoah of European Jewry, and the
    1994 Rwandan Genocide.

    A co-founder and past president of the International Association of
    Genocide Scholars (IAGS), Charny is editor-in-chief of the Encyclopedia
    of Genocide, (ABC-Clio Publishers, U.S. and UK, 1999) and author of
    Fascism and Democracy in the Human Mind (University of Nebraska Press,
    2006), both works selected by the American Library Association as
    "Outstanding Academic Book of the Year."

    Charny is executive director of the Institute on the Holocaust and
    Genocide in Jerusalem, which received the 2011 Armenian President's
    Prize, "in recognition of his decades-long academic work and activities
    contributing to international recognition of the Armenian Genocide
    and his researches of denials of genocides."

    He is founding editor of GPN Genocide Prevention Now,
    (genocidepreventionnow.org).

    On the eve of the new exhibition honoring Charny and his career,
    he discussed his work with the Ledger via email.

    Q: Why did you decide to devote so much of your professional life to
    the understanding and prevention of genocide?

    A: I had not planned as such to study genocide, but it came to
    me, so to speak, and told me that I had to devote myself to this
    subject. It was some six years after my PhD in clinical psychology when
    I successfully passed the examinations for the highest certification
    (the "Boards") in my profession. I went to sleep happy with my success
    and awoke with a dream about the Holocaust, and specifically the
    pounding question of how could they have done what they did to us
    Jewish fellow human beings - men, women, and children. I realized
    with horror that in all of my wonderful training at an outstanding
    American university and several psychiatric hospitals, in those
    days I had never been trained in any aspect of human violence or
    destructiveness, let alone any effort whatsoever to understand the
    Holocaust and other genocides. It was then that I resolved that,
    along with the practice of psychotherapy, which I love to this day,
    I would devote myself to the study of genocide. In time my decision
    became two-fold: first, in my own researches to contribute to the
    understanding of the psychology of genocide, and second, to seek at
    the same time to contribute to the development of an interdisciplinary,
    as well as multi-ethnic, discipline of genocide studies.

    Q: What has kept you engaged for so many decades?

    A: Believe it or not, I have found that my deep devotion to the
    subject of genocide studies has added perceptibly to my pleasures of
    life and to my very deep commitment to the sacredness of human life.

    Some Holocaust/genocide researchers indeed end up bitterly depressed
    or burned out, but there are any number who are led to savor life's
    beauties all that much more. When I taught undergraduates a course
    on the Holocaust and genocide I would tell them that there will be
    nights when they will feel terrible over what they learned and saw
    in films that day in class but then suddenly there may come a wave of
    hunger for the best hamburger in town or a hunger for their boyfriend
    or girlfriend, and my advice to them was to go get it- because that is
    the point of our fury and condemnation of those who destroy human life.

    Q: What are your professional experiences with and findings regarding
    children and grandchildren of Holocaust and genocide survivors?

    A: There have been many, many studies of children of Holocaust
    survivors in particular; less of the children of other peoples who have
    suffered genocide. The main findings make a lot of sense to me and also
    fit my clinical experiences as a therapist: The second generation is
    unbelievably successful in its achievements, and scared to death of
    intimate emotions and especially wary of any kind of anger - including
    perfectly normal anger - towards loved ones. It is also a generation
    pursued by obligations. I saw one couple in treatment because they
    were fighting too much and too strongly and the key turned out to be
    that she - a second-generation daughter to two full-blown Auschwitz
    survivors - had been so obligated in her childhood and teenage years
    to tread softly on the floors of their house so that her nervous and
    irritable parents would not be upset that she literally had a need to
    explode now that she was free and married - and was she one powerful
    and delightful fighter, but obviously too much so.

    I am less knowledgeable about research taking place about the third
    generation, but what I see in my practice are third generation
    offspring who have grown up with parents who could not give them
    the full range of emotions. Commitment? You better believe it -
    overwhelmingly so. Caring? No doubt whatsoever. But intimacy in
    tenderness and loving, including a freedom to allow angry emotions
    both in the parents and the child, were not expressed sufficiently.

    Q: At what point does behavior described as "civil war" cross the
    line into "genocide?"

    A: For me, genocide is the purposeful killing of masses of unarmed
    civilians without there being a strategic military intention to
    the attack. In other words, collateral damage to civilians in the
    course of a military operation does not qualify immediately for
    a concept of genocide, although if the collateral damage is very
    large, the legal definition moves towards a possible definition of
    "crimes against humanity." There have been any number of Holocaust and
    genocide scholars who have wanted to insist that genocide has to be
    a purposeful effort to destroy a given people entirely - such as the
    Nazis' intention to destroy the Jews. But life is far more complicated
    and genocide comes in many different packages. The Cambodians destroyed
    one third of their fellow countrymen, the majority of whom had no
    significantly different identity - the killers and victims were of
    the same people. In Rwanda we are told that the distinction between
    Tutsi and Hutu was a very artificial and recent construction by the
    Belgian colonizers; moreover, there are a great number of accounts
    of Hutu also slaughtering fellow Hutu in the process, let alone an
    unbelievable number of accounts of the genociders slaughtering members
    of their own extended family.

    Some years ago I published a satire in a journal for social science
    teachers in which I described several all-too-able genociders like
    Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot seeking legal advice to help them continue
    their activities because a kind of "heat" was beginning to build up
    against genocide in the international system. I sent them to a firm
    of international lawyers that was named "Whore, Satan, and Conformist
    - Attorneys at Law." The learned defenders of justice gave several
    pieces of advice among which stood out the recommendation that when
    the genociders want to kill a specific people - as called for by
    the definitional purists - they should henceforth be careful to kill
    them in a situation where they are mixed with many other peoples who
    are not defined as specific targets of the genocide, and this will
    complicate legal charges of genocide against them.

    For me, civil war that includes killing of masses of helpless civilian
    human beings is very much genocide.

    Q: A propos, how would you define the recent use of chemical weapons
    in Syria?

    A: Yes, what is happening in the civil war in Syria includes a great
    deal of out-and-out genocide. That certainly is the proper description
    for the indiscriminate poison gassing of many hundreds of people, not
    to mention the wildly indiscriminate shelling and shooting killings
    of huge civilian populations in many Syrian cities. When the ugly
    shebang first began, we at GPN Genocide Prevention Now proceeded
    quite promptly to identify the murdering that then numbered in the
    single-figure thousands as genocide, and we tracked the progressive
    development of what we came to call "unfolding genocide" from issue
    to issue. Incidentally, when it all started, one of the too many
    virulent antisemites in academia in our times, who is otherwise a
    very gifted scholar of many aspects of genocide, insisted publicly
    that GPN's criticisms of the killing in Syria were hardly the issue
    in the Middle East, and that the only real source and risk of genocide
    in the Middle East is - you better believe it - the State of Israel.

    Q: How does the State of Israel define and deal with the Armenian
    Genocide?

    A: Shamefully. Cowardly. Disgustingly pragmatically. I too have made
    decisions not to tell a truth when I felt that the truth could lead
    to real harm to human beings. Thus, in 1982 when I launched the First
    International Conference on the Holocaust and Genocide in Tel Aviv,
    the Turkish government objected strenuously to our allowing several
    presentations on the Armenian Genocide (six lectures out of a scheduled
    300), and enlisted the efforts of the Israeli government to close the
    conference down. The Turks made their characteristic wild threats that
    sounded like Jewish lives in Istanbul and especially Jews escaping
    from Iran through Turkey might really be at risk. For several months
    I did not say a word publicly about what was happening, even as my
    colleagues and I continued to work adamantly towards continuation of
    the conference to include every one of the papers and a film on the
    Armenian Genocide (the conference did take place very meaningfully).

    When the time came, I told the whole story as it really was to the
    world press and it received a good deal of coverage - including in the
    New York Times - as a case history of standing up against governments.

    Official Israel denies recognition of the Armenian genocide, but thank
    God the Israeli people and the Israeli culture very much recognize
    the historical validity of the Armenian genocide. One small example
    is that to this day, the Forty Days of Musadagh is an inspiring piece
    of Zionist education, let alone one heck of a great read.

    So much of Israeli government denial of recognition has been
    unnecessarily obsequious and downright cowardly and kowtowing even
    in situations that hardly involved major security and political
    considerations. When my late brother, poet, translator and editor, T.

    Carmi (Charny) was editor of a wonderful multi-language magazine called
    Ariel that was published by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
    there was a touching story about the Armenian Quarter in the Old City
    of Jerusalem, in the course of which there was all of a brief reference
    to the Armenian genocide and the many orphans of that genocide who
    found safety settling in our good old Jerusalem and elsewhere in
    Palestine. The issue had already been printed in thousands of copies
    in several languages - rare in those days, on expensive glossy paper
    - and you wouldn't believe it, but the Foreign Ministry stopped the
    distribution to cut the page out, replace it and rebind the magazine.

    The people of Israel, indeed the Knesset of Israel, have shown
    themselves entirely ready to recognize the Armenian genocide; it
    is the political leadership of Israel - of all political parties to
    date - that has continued a realpolitik of currying the mad Turkish
    insistence on denial.

    Would any of us ever agree to denials of our Holocaust - for
    any political or commercial or even less than critical security
    considerations?

    Q: One common characteristic arising from genocides or "ethnic
    cleansing" is the semantic challenge exemplified by Bill Clinton
    regarding what was happening in the former Yugoslavia, and the
    resultant foot-dragging on the part of the UN countries capable of
    helping. How do you explain this reluctance on the part of world
    leaders to call a genocide what it is?

    A: For quite a while, we believed that once a genocidal event
    was labeled as a genocide in the international system, such as by
    the United Nations or by the United States as the world's leading
    democracy, there would follow an imperative of intervention to halt
    or reduce the ongoing genocide. The delays on such recognition were
    unconscionable. At the time of the Cambodian genocide, the United
    Nations Human Rights Commission called for a study of the dilemma
    that the killers were destroying fellow countrymen and not an "other"
    people, so how could it be genocide? They called for a report on the
    dilemma to be given no less than a year later - during which hundreds
    of thousands more, of course, were killed. In recent years we have
    learned the further sad truth that even when proper recognition
    of a genocide does take place, such as nowadays in greater Sudan,
    the world as a whole does not necessarily take action - even to help
    starving uprooted refugees in the Nuba Mountains as winter closes in
    at this time.

    The huge question is, why in hell has humanity avoided recognizing
    the Number One killer of human life - genocide?

    Genocide is a massive experience of death, and I think that so much
    of our personal human machinery and our societies' ways of organizing
    our lives are devoted to an overwhelming denial of - what we all know
    is totally true - the impending death of every one of us. Indeed,
    one of the conclusions I have come to about terrifying readiness of
    human beings to commit genocide is that it serves, unconsciously,
    as a form of sacrificing others to a death we fear for ourselves:
    I make you die because I am God-like in my powers and I will prove
    it with your death, and since I am God-like I will absolutely ensure
    my true goal of staying alive forever.

    Q: Do you see signs of hope in our world regarding genocide prevention?

    A: NO - and yes. My "NO" is unfortunately stronger than my Yes, but
    thank God there is a degree of "Yes." If we only have the time before
    our quite stupid species destroys itself on this planet, then the
    facts are that we have been making a great deal of, in fact wonderful,
    progress over the last 30 years in identifying the previously unnamed
    crime of genocide.

    The word-concept "genocide" was first coined by a very special survivor
    and escapee from the Holocaust, a Polish jurist, Raphael Lemkin, who
    lost virtually all of his family in the Holocaust even as he made his
    way first to Sweden and then to the US. After the war, he is credited
    virtually singlehandedly with bringing about the United Nations
    Convention on Genocide. Ever since there are new developments in the
    legal system, including international courts that have functioned
    with some meaningfulness in the cases of the former Yugoslavia and
    Rwanda, and more recently the development of the International Criminal
    Court in the Hague. There are increasing researches and professional
    journals of genocide studies in the intellectual and academic world,
    and we now have professional organizations of genocide scholars that
    number in the hundreds. Back in the early 1980s, the best we could do
    at first was to identify three American-Jewish scholars who published
    works on the subject of genocide and then a handful more who joined
    us in the continuation of that decade.

    And if for many years the subjects of discourse in the field were
    the definition and identification of genocide and understanding the
    characteristics of the genocidal process, in recent years the word
    "prevention" has been added to the focus of the genocide scholar. It
    is, I suggest, something like a medical-scientific process where first
    the phenomena of a disease - say, like cancer - are identified and
    described, and then some years later major efforts begin at developing
    treatment and prevention.

    GPN Genocide Prevention Now is clearly dedicated to furthering our
    human society's very underdeveloped capacities to reduce genocide,
    stop genocide, and prevent genocide.

    Shana Tova from Jerusalem in our tumultuous conflict-ridden world.

    http://www.jewishledger.com/2013/09/conversation-withdr-israel-charny/




    From: A. Papazian
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