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NPR National Public Radio, USA
Dec 27 2014
Author Explores Armenian Genocide 'Obsession' And Turkish Denial
December 27, 2014 7:43 AM ET
Writer Meline Toumani grew up in a tight-knit Armenian community in
New Jersey. There, identity centered on commemorating the mass
killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks during World War I, a history
that's resulted in tense relations between Armenians and Turks to this
day.
In her new book, There Was and There Was Not, Toumani recounts her
attempts to understand Turkey and the Turkish people -- people she was
always taught were her bitter enemy. She also explores what she calls
the Armenian community's "obsession" with genocide recognition, which
she herself harbored.
"There would be moments where I felt almost embarrassed by a certain
deep-seated prejudice in me," Toumani tells NPR's Eric Westervelt.
"For example, if a friend comes back from vacation in Turkey and
they're talking about it and I'm kind of bristling or brooding and
just waiting for that to be over because I know that I can't say what
I feel -- which is, you know, 'I would never go to Turkey. The Turks,
you know, killed the Armenians in 1915.'"
Interview Highlights
On why she decided to move to Turkey, a sort of forbidden place for Armenians
I'd have these feelings rise up in me and they didn't fit anymore in
the life that I had created, which was otherwise very progressive and
intellectually oriented. And that was when I decided I kind of need to
explore this. And through a series of events, it entered my mind that
exploring it would mean going to Turkey, talking to Turks; not to try
to take seriously the Turkish version of the history of the genocide,
but just to understand how does it happen that another group of people
have learned this history in a completely different way leading to a
completely different conclusion? And is there any way that we can
connect if I find the right way to talk about it, or the right way to
listen about it?
On being attacked on Armenian-American news sites for taking on this project
It's actually surprisingly painful given that I've just written a book
that describes the kinds of attitudes that lead to that kind of
criticism. ... I knew that there would be people who would feel that
way, and yet part of what my book is about is this incredible tension
between belonging to a community and trying to individuate from it.
And it's sad for me to see that some people are so threatened that
they're not even willing to engage, because most of the people
publishing those attacks haven't read the book. In fact, one of them
celebrates the fact that he hasn't read it and in the same breath
calls for a boycott.
On how people in Turkey reacted when they learned she was Armenian
I was perhaps recklessly optimistic in thinking that things wouldn't
be quite as bad in Turkey regarding the Armenian issue as I had been
taught to believe. ... In some ways, they were even worse. The thing
that shocked me the most was the fact that on a daily basis, you know
and this is over the course of two and a half years of living there,
people would find out that I was Armenian and sometimes the reaction
would be so blunt: "Well, I guess you came here to prove that there
was a genocide. I want you to know that I don't believe that that's
what happened." Or something like that. And those moments were really
jarring and made it very difficult for me to ever really relax. There
was a lot of stress in my daily life.
And I want to be clear, of course, that I also had the opposite
reactions, you know. There was a young man who I met outside of a
restaurant with some friends, just totally at random on a Saturday
night, and when he found out I was Armenian he put his hand over his
heart and he said, "I want to welcome you back to your country and I
want to apologize on behalf of the Turkish nation."
So I would have every manner of reaction, but to be honest, most of
the reactions ranged from pretending I hadn't said anything at all to
saying something sort of blunt and harsh.
On where relations between Turks and Armenians stand today
It was a few years ago already that I left Turkey. And in the time
since then, there have been some big changes. For example, on April
24, 2014 -- which was the 99th-year commemoration of the Armenian
genocide -- in Istanbul you had several events commemorating the
genocide openly and without any kind of the contorted language that
you might have had in the past.
Also [Turkish President Recep Tayyip] Erdogan made a statement that
was very much falling short but at the same time really breaking new
ground in acknowledging that something tragic had happened to the
Armenians. And although he, you know, was very careful not to call it
a genocide and to say everyone suffered and to use a lot of the same
rhetoric that he has always used, I consider it a major step.
Read and excerpt of "There Was and There Wasn't" at
http://www.npr.org/books/titles/372906625/there-was-and-there-was-not-a-journey-through-hate-and-possibility-in-turkey-arm?tab=excerpt#excerpt
http://www.npr.org/2014/12/27/372906470/author-asks-why-wwi-genocide-still-splits-turks-and-armenians
Dec 27 2014
Author Explores Armenian Genocide 'Obsession' And Turkish Denial
December 27, 2014 7:43 AM ET
Writer Meline Toumani grew up in a tight-knit Armenian community in
New Jersey. There, identity centered on commemorating the mass
killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks during World War I, a history
that's resulted in tense relations between Armenians and Turks to this
day.
In her new book, There Was and There Was Not, Toumani recounts her
attempts to understand Turkey and the Turkish people -- people she was
always taught were her bitter enemy. She also explores what she calls
the Armenian community's "obsession" with genocide recognition, which
she herself harbored.
"There would be moments where I felt almost embarrassed by a certain
deep-seated prejudice in me," Toumani tells NPR's Eric Westervelt.
"For example, if a friend comes back from vacation in Turkey and
they're talking about it and I'm kind of bristling or brooding and
just waiting for that to be over because I know that I can't say what
I feel -- which is, you know, 'I would never go to Turkey. The Turks,
you know, killed the Armenians in 1915.'"
Interview Highlights
On why she decided to move to Turkey, a sort of forbidden place for Armenians
I'd have these feelings rise up in me and they didn't fit anymore in
the life that I had created, which was otherwise very progressive and
intellectually oriented. And that was when I decided I kind of need to
explore this. And through a series of events, it entered my mind that
exploring it would mean going to Turkey, talking to Turks; not to try
to take seriously the Turkish version of the history of the genocide,
but just to understand how does it happen that another group of people
have learned this history in a completely different way leading to a
completely different conclusion? And is there any way that we can
connect if I find the right way to talk about it, or the right way to
listen about it?
On being attacked on Armenian-American news sites for taking on this project
It's actually surprisingly painful given that I've just written a book
that describes the kinds of attitudes that lead to that kind of
criticism. ... I knew that there would be people who would feel that
way, and yet part of what my book is about is this incredible tension
between belonging to a community and trying to individuate from it.
And it's sad for me to see that some people are so threatened that
they're not even willing to engage, because most of the people
publishing those attacks haven't read the book. In fact, one of them
celebrates the fact that he hasn't read it and in the same breath
calls for a boycott.
On how people in Turkey reacted when they learned she was Armenian
I was perhaps recklessly optimistic in thinking that things wouldn't
be quite as bad in Turkey regarding the Armenian issue as I had been
taught to believe. ... In some ways, they were even worse. The thing
that shocked me the most was the fact that on a daily basis, you know
and this is over the course of two and a half years of living there,
people would find out that I was Armenian and sometimes the reaction
would be so blunt: "Well, I guess you came here to prove that there
was a genocide. I want you to know that I don't believe that that's
what happened." Or something like that. And those moments were really
jarring and made it very difficult for me to ever really relax. There
was a lot of stress in my daily life.
And I want to be clear, of course, that I also had the opposite
reactions, you know. There was a young man who I met outside of a
restaurant with some friends, just totally at random on a Saturday
night, and when he found out I was Armenian he put his hand over his
heart and he said, "I want to welcome you back to your country and I
want to apologize on behalf of the Turkish nation."
So I would have every manner of reaction, but to be honest, most of
the reactions ranged from pretending I hadn't said anything at all to
saying something sort of blunt and harsh.
On where relations between Turks and Armenians stand today
It was a few years ago already that I left Turkey. And in the time
since then, there have been some big changes. For example, on April
24, 2014 -- which was the 99th-year commemoration of the Armenian
genocide -- in Istanbul you had several events commemorating the
genocide openly and without any kind of the contorted language that
you might have had in the past.
Also [Turkish President Recep Tayyip] Erdogan made a statement that
was very much falling short but at the same time really breaking new
ground in acknowledging that something tragic had happened to the
Armenians. And although he, you know, was very careful not to call it
a genocide and to say everyone suffered and to use a lot of the same
rhetoric that he has always used, I consider it a major step.
Read and excerpt of "There Was and There Wasn't" at
http://www.npr.org/books/titles/372906625/there-was-and-there-was-not-a-journey-through-hate-and-possibility-in-turkey-arm?tab=excerpt#excerpt
http://www.npr.org/2014/12/27/372906470/author-asks-why-wwi-genocide-still-splits-turks-and-armenians