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`The Government's inner conflict is a good sign'
Gözde Kazaz 01.30.2015 10:24
Executive director of HRW Middle East and North Africa Division Sarah
Leah Whitson will be visiting Istanbul on April 24 as part of the
`Project 2015' group to take part in the Armenian Genocide 100th
Anniversary Commemoration. We interviewed Whitson in Istanbul, where
she held meetings with civilian society organizations in Turkey, which
will participate in the organization of the commemoration event; and
asked her about Turkey's position in 2015, the Diaspora's expectations
and the impact of Armenian identity on her life.
Sarah Leah Whitson, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch's (HRW)
Middle East and North Africa Division, is a legal expert who for many
years has worked as a human rights advocate.
After graduating from the Harvard Law School, Whitson worked for an
international law firm and then in investment banking; she also
volunteered in civil society organizations including the Center for
Economic and Social Rights and the American Arab Anti-Discrimination
Committee. Since 2004, when she started work at HRW, she has published
numerous reports and articles on conflict zones including
Israel-Palestine, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon. Whitson's mother is
Armenian, and her family originates from Diyarbakır; so this year, she
has another significant agenda. Whitson will be visiting Istanbul on
April 24 as part of the `Project 2015' group to take part in the
Armenian Genocide 100th Anniversary Commemoration. We interviewed
Whitson in Istanbul, where she held meetings with civil society
organizations in Turkey, which will participate in the organization of
the commemoration event; and asked her about Turkey's position in
2015, the Diaspora's expectations and the impact of Armenian identity
on her life.
We can perhaps begin with `Project 2015'. What will be the core
message of the people who will come from the Diaspora to Istanbul on
April 24?
This is a commemoration event that civil society in Turkey is
organizing, and has been organizing for several years. They started
this extremely important process. Diaspora Armenians have come from
abroad to Istanbul to participate in this commemoration event in
previous years, too. It is a very significant step in terms of
recognizing the Genocide in public space, and creating a platform for
debate. The aim this year is to make sure a greater number of Diaspora
Armenians come to Istanbul for the centennial.
We have three main messages. The first is, a 100 years later, we are
still here, we have survived. 1915 is not only a story of death and
destruction, but also one of survival against tremendous odds. The
second message is, 100 years later, we have not forgotten, and this
issue is not going away. And our third and most important message, not
only to the government of Turkey, but to the world, is this: Yes, it
is true, the government of Turkey may not be ready to do the right
thing, but many people, a large part of society in Turkey, is ready to
do the right thing. This April 24 will set an example for that.
Although States may not be prepared to act honestly because of
political reasons, societies are prepared to have an honest and open
debate, they are ready to do and say the right thing. We hope it is an
important show of solidarity between Turks and Armenians.
How does the Diaspora perceive the special commemoration event in Istanbul?
I can say that the people we have talked to have been tremendously
excited. Many people recognize that the most important conversation we
can be having right now is the one between Turks and Armenians. In
Armenia, and in places like Los Angeles, where there is a high
Armenian population, the Genocide remains a very vivid reality and
memory, and it is important that Armenians throughout the world all
have the opportunity to participate in a commemoration. But the
commemoration event in Istanbul is extremely important, because this
is where everything started, and this is where the problem remains;
the problem is not with the Armenians in the Diaspora, the problem is
not in Paris or Washington, the problem is here in Turkey. So this is
where we have to move forward.
What scale of participation do you expect?
Many Armenians have still not overcome the trauma. Therefore, it is
not easy to return to a land that nearly destroyed your entire
population. There is a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear. The vast
majority of the Armenian Diaspora, even though they are refugees from
these lands, have never been to Turkey, and the idea of coming here is
still very frightening to them. We want to help push that fear aside
and demonstrate that there are people for us to connect to, and we are
part of these lands as well.
You just mentioned that the problem continues to exist in these lands.
I want to ask you about Turkey's position regarding 2015. As you know,
President ErdoÄ?an has announced that the 100th Anniversary of the
Dardanelles War will be commemorated on April 24. On the one hand,
Prime Minister Ahmet DavutoÄ?lu issues a message of condolence on the
anniversary of Hrant Dink's passing and speaks of `a mutual future'
for Armenian and Turkish people, while on the other hand, high-ranking
state officials and Ministers like ÇavuÅ?oÄ?lu and Çiçek issue
statements about Turkey's `action plan' for 2015. What do you make of
these mixed messages coming from the government?
These mixed messages are in fact very obvious. We have to ask the
government, why do they send these mixed messages? Why are they taking
such a cheap shot, organizing a commemoration on April 24 for
Gallipoli, for the Dardanelles War, when it is not even the real
anniversary? It opens them up to a lot of mockery, because it so
transparently aims to distort the agenda.
But at the same time it shows that the government is conflicted. They
know that something is wrong, and certain steps must be taken, and
that is why they are making these few, small gestures. The condolence
message issued by former Prime Minister on 24 April 2014 was an
advance from what has been said in previous years. But we must still
underline that it is not far enough. Therefore, I suppose it is a good
thing that they are conflicted, because it means they are grappling
with this issue.
Sadly, in terms of action, they have failed to go beyond political
tactics. ErdoÄ?an has now been saying for a very long time that he is a
leader for Turkey, that he speaks with the voice of moral authority;
and on many international platforms he has expressed a voice of
principle. We'd like to see him act as that voice of principle, to
take that step forward, to show that he is perhaps the leader who can
take the issue forward. We are looking forward to the government of
Turkey doing the right thing; and that does not mean just agreeing to
what the Armenian Diaspora, Armenia, France or the US expects. They
should be guided by their own moral compass about coming to terms with
the past. Because, after all, not only Armenians, but the people of
Turkey are also held up, and cannot move beyond the horrors of the
past.
`We are looking forward to the government of Turkey doing the right
thing; and that does not mean doing what the Armenian Diaspora,
Armenia, France or the US expects. They should be guided by their own
moral compass.'
`The magnificence of the Surp Giragos Church showed me that the fire
of justice has not been extinguished'
Your grandfather was born in Diyarbakır. You visited Diyarbakır a few
years ago with your family. How did you feel when you returned to the
homeland of your family?
Yes, that was my second visit. I first visited Diyarbakır in 1994. I
was passing through on my way to Iraq. The Surp Giragos Church was in
ruins back then. I had met an old woman in her 90s, and people told me
that she was the only Armenian here. She was very old, blind, and
deaf. Then, I felt that this was the end of everything, and that
everything related to the past was lost. My grandfather was orphaned
in Diyarbakır, during the 1915 Genocide in Diyarbakır, and missonaries
took him to an orphanage in Lebanon.
To return, a year and a half ago, in 2013, and to see this beautiful
church, magnificently restored, to hear Abdullah DemirbaÅ?, the Mayor
of the Sur District, talking about efforts to build a centre for the
Armenian community and heritage, and that there were Islamized
Armenians coming back to Diyarbakır, it was a tremendously moving
moment.
Being there in the church where my grandfather was baptized, to be
there not in ruins, but glory, and to be there with my children `
because it was very important for them to know where they came from,
who they are and in what conditions their forefathers lived ` evoked
incredible emotions. It was also very inspiring, too, because it
showed me that the flame of justice has not died, the people there are
doing this because it is the right thing, that flame continues to live
on in the hearts of the people of Diyarbakır. It's so triumphant for
the human spirit. Hats off to the people of Diyarbakır, the Armenian
Diaspora community and the visionaries that made that happen.
You have been working in the field of human rights for many years, and
you hold an important position at your insitution. How did you choose
this path?
In fact, the path chose me. As an Armenian, you have a very strong
sense of being an underdog and having a sense of injustice. I was
raised with the notion of injustice, and the need for justice. I got
to know the broader world during my university education, and it was
natural for me to extend that compassion and take sides with the
oppressed. The Middle East was a natural place for me to focus,
because I speak Arabic, I have spent a lot of time in the Middle East
and I became very concerned about the issues there. Another reason for
me to focus on the Middle East is that I feel responsibility as a US
citizen. The US has been deeply involved in the region, and in such
bad ways. One of the first major activist challenges I took on was the
first Iraq War in 1994. I felt that the human cost of that war was
being kept secret from the US public. The non-transparent policy of
the US played a role in my continuing work regarding human rights
issues in the Middle East.
What you said about Armenian identity reminds me of a recent debate in
the Diaspora. Journalist Meline Toumani, the author of the book `There
Was and There Was Not' speaks of how being Armenian requires that one
assume a mission regarding the Genocide, of some kind of
responsibility. What is your view on that debate?
I bought a copy but I haven't read it yet. So it wouldn't be fair for
me to comment without knowing precisely what Toumani says in the book.
What I do believe, however, is that Armenians have a responsibility.
We lost 75% of our population, and we are involved in a struggle,
because no one else will take up that struggle on our behalf. Black
Americans also have a responsibility, they continue to fight racism,
and they cannot escape that responsibility even if they want to. I
wish I carried no responsibility because of my Armenian identity, I
wish we were a problem-free society, yet biology and fate have
rendered that impossible.
`I wish I carried no responsibility because of my Armenian identity, I
wish we were a problem-free society, yet biology and fate have
rendered that impossible.'
`Christian minorities are specifically targeted in the Middle East'
You have close contact with the region. What is the situation of
Christian minorities, and of Armenians, who are part of that group, in
the war in Syria?
The current situation in the Middle East involves death and
destruction at a level we have not witnessed in a long time. The most
significant outcome of the war in Syria is of course the death of
almost 200,000 Syrians. This number will probably exceed 200 thousand
in the near future. It is a massive tragedy. Sunnis, Shiites,
Armenians: everyone is suffering. We are talking about a devastating
war against diversity. If we can imagine that the ethnic, cultural and
religious diversity that forms the richness of the Middle East is
being destroyed, then we can understand the magnitude of the tragedy
we face. However, Christian minorities are specifically targeted in
the Middle East. Armenians, one of the ancient Christian minorities of
the region, are about to be wiped out completely. On the other hand,
this war made me understand the value of the existence of the Armenian
state in a way I had not considered before. Armenia is one of the most
significant destinations where Armenians fleeing Syria can seek
shelter. They no doubt live in difficult conditions there, too, but we
can say that they have better conditions than the refugee camps in
Jordan or Turkey.
http://www.agos.com.tr/en/article/10404/the-governments-inner-conflict-is-a-good-sign
Gözde Kazaz 01.30.2015 10:24
Executive director of HRW Middle East and North Africa Division Sarah
Leah Whitson will be visiting Istanbul on April 24 as part of the
`Project 2015' group to take part in the Armenian Genocide 100th
Anniversary Commemoration. We interviewed Whitson in Istanbul, where
she held meetings with civilian society organizations in Turkey, which
will participate in the organization of the commemoration event; and
asked her about Turkey's position in 2015, the Diaspora's expectations
and the impact of Armenian identity on her life.
Sarah Leah Whitson, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch's (HRW)
Middle East and North Africa Division, is a legal expert who for many
years has worked as a human rights advocate.
After graduating from the Harvard Law School, Whitson worked for an
international law firm and then in investment banking; she also
volunteered in civil society organizations including the Center for
Economic and Social Rights and the American Arab Anti-Discrimination
Committee. Since 2004, when she started work at HRW, she has published
numerous reports and articles on conflict zones including
Israel-Palestine, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon. Whitson's mother is
Armenian, and her family originates from Diyarbakır; so this year, she
has another significant agenda. Whitson will be visiting Istanbul on
April 24 as part of the `Project 2015' group to take part in the
Armenian Genocide 100th Anniversary Commemoration. We interviewed
Whitson in Istanbul, where she held meetings with civil society
organizations in Turkey, which will participate in the organization of
the commemoration event; and asked her about Turkey's position in
2015, the Diaspora's expectations and the impact of Armenian identity
on her life.
We can perhaps begin with `Project 2015'. What will be the core
message of the people who will come from the Diaspora to Istanbul on
April 24?
This is a commemoration event that civil society in Turkey is
organizing, and has been organizing for several years. They started
this extremely important process. Diaspora Armenians have come from
abroad to Istanbul to participate in this commemoration event in
previous years, too. It is a very significant step in terms of
recognizing the Genocide in public space, and creating a platform for
debate. The aim this year is to make sure a greater number of Diaspora
Armenians come to Istanbul for the centennial.
We have three main messages. The first is, a 100 years later, we are
still here, we have survived. 1915 is not only a story of death and
destruction, but also one of survival against tremendous odds. The
second message is, 100 years later, we have not forgotten, and this
issue is not going away. And our third and most important message, not
only to the government of Turkey, but to the world, is this: Yes, it
is true, the government of Turkey may not be ready to do the right
thing, but many people, a large part of society in Turkey, is ready to
do the right thing. This April 24 will set an example for that.
Although States may not be prepared to act honestly because of
political reasons, societies are prepared to have an honest and open
debate, they are ready to do and say the right thing. We hope it is an
important show of solidarity between Turks and Armenians.
How does the Diaspora perceive the special commemoration event in Istanbul?
I can say that the people we have talked to have been tremendously
excited. Many people recognize that the most important conversation we
can be having right now is the one between Turks and Armenians. In
Armenia, and in places like Los Angeles, where there is a high
Armenian population, the Genocide remains a very vivid reality and
memory, and it is important that Armenians throughout the world all
have the opportunity to participate in a commemoration. But the
commemoration event in Istanbul is extremely important, because this
is where everything started, and this is where the problem remains;
the problem is not with the Armenians in the Diaspora, the problem is
not in Paris or Washington, the problem is here in Turkey. So this is
where we have to move forward.
What scale of participation do you expect?
Many Armenians have still not overcome the trauma. Therefore, it is
not easy to return to a land that nearly destroyed your entire
population. There is a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear. The vast
majority of the Armenian Diaspora, even though they are refugees from
these lands, have never been to Turkey, and the idea of coming here is
still very frightening to them. We want to help push that fear aside
and demonstrate that there are people for us to connect to, and we are
part of these lands as well.
You just mentioned that the problem continues to exist in these lands.
I want to ask you about Turkey's position regarding 2015. As you know,
President ErdoÄ?an has announced that the 100th Anniversary of the
Dardanelles War will be commemorated on April 24. On the one hand,
Prime Minister Ahmet DavutoÄ?lu issues a message of condolence on the
anniversary of Hrant Dink's passing and speaks of `a mutual future'
for Armenian and Turkish people, while on the other hand, high-ranking
state officials and Ministers like ÇavuÅ?oÄ?lu and Çiçek issue
statements about Turkey's `action plan' for 2015. What do you make of
these mixed messages coming from the government?
These mixed messages are in fact very obvious. We have to ask the
government, why do they send these mixed messages? Why are they taking
such a cheap shot, organizing a commemoration on April 24 for
Gallipoli, for the Dardanelles War, when it is not even the real
anniversary? It opens them up to a lot of mockery, because it so
transparently aims to distort the agenda.
But at the same time it shows that the government is conflicted. They
know that something is wrong, and certain steps must be taken, and
that is why they are making these few, small gestures. The condolence
message issued by former Prime Minister on 24 April 2014 was an
advance from what has been said in previous years. But we must still
underline that it is not far enough. Therefore, I suppose it is a good
thing that they are conflicted, because it means they are grappling
with this issue.
Sadly, in terms of action, they have failed to go beyond political
tactics. ErdoÄ?an has now been saying for a very long time that he is a
leader for Turkey, that he speaks with the voice of moral authority;
and on many international platforms he has expressed a voice of
principle. We'd like to see him act as that voice of principle, to
take that step forward, to show that he is perhaps the leader who can
take the issue forward. We are looking forward to the government of
Turkey doing the right thing; and that does not mean just agreeing to
what the Armenian Diaspora, Armenia, France or the US expects. They
should be guided by their own moral compass about coming to terms with
the past. Because, after all, not only Armenians, but the people of
Turkey are also held up, and cannot move beyond the horrors of the
past.
`We are looking forward to the government of Turkey doing the right
thing; and that does not mean doing what the Armenian Diaspora,
Armenia, France or the US expects. They should be guided by their own
moral compass.'
`The magnificence of the Surp Giragos Church showed me that the fire
of justice has not been extinguished'
Your grandfather was born in Diyarbakır. You visited Diyarbakır a few
years ago with your family. How did you feel when you returned to the
homeland of your family?
Yes, that was my second visit. I first visited Diyarbakır in 1994. I
was passing through on my way to Iraq. The Surp Giragos Church was in
ruins back then. I had met an old woman in her 90s, and people told me
that she was the only Armenian here. She was very old, blind, and
deaf. Then, I felt that this was the end of everything, and that
everything related to the past was lost. My grandfather was orphaned
in Diyarbakır, during the 1915 Genocide in Diyarbakır, and missonaries
took him to an orphanage in Lebanon.
To return, a year and a half ago, in 2013, and to see this beautiful
church, magnificently restored, to hear Abdullah DemirbaÅ?, the Mayor
of the Sur District, talking about efforts to build a centre for the
Armenian community and heritage, and that there were Islamized
Armenians coming back to Diyarbakır, it was a tremendously moving
moment.
Being there in the church where my grandfather was baptized, to be
there not in ruins, but glory, and to be there with my children `
because it was very important for them to know where they came from,
who they are and in what conditions their forefathers lived ` evoked
incredible emotions. It was also very inspiring, too, because it
showed me that the flame of justice has not died, the people there are
doing this because it is the right thing, that flame continues to live
on in the hearts of the people of Diyarbakır. It's so triumphant for
the human spirit. Hats off to the people of Diyarbakır, the Armenian
Diaspora community and the visionaries that made that happen.
You have been working in the field of human rights for many years, and
you hold an important position at your insitution. How did you choose
this path?
In fact, the path chose me. As an Armenian, you have a very strong
sense of being an underdog and having a sense of injustice. I was
raised with the notion of injustice, and the need for justice. I got
to know the broader world during my university education, and it was
natural for me to extend that compassion and take sides with the
oppressed. The Middle East was a natural place for me to focus,
because I speak Arabic, I have spent a lot of time in the Middle East
and I became very concerned about the issues there. Another reason for
me to focus on the Middle East is that I feel responsibility as a US
citizen. The US has been deeply involved in the region, and in such
bad ways. One of the first major activist challenges I took on was the
first Iraq War in 1994. I felt that the human cost of that war was
being kept secret from the US public. The non-transparent policy of
the US played a role in my continuing work regarding human rights
issues in the Middle East.
What you said about Armenian identity reminds me of a recent debate in
the Diaspora. Journalist Meline Toumani, the author of the book `There
Was and There Was Not' speaks of how being Armenian requires that one
assume a mission regarding the Genocide, of some kind of
responsibility. What is your view on that debate?
I bought a copy but I haven't read it yet. So it wouldn't be fair for
me to comment without knowing precisely what Toumani says in the book.
What I do believe, however, is that Armenians have a responsibility.
We lost 75% of our population, and we are involved in a struggle,
because no one else will take up that struggle on our behalf. Black
Americans also have a responsibility, they continue to fight racism,
and they cannot escape that responsibility even if they want to. I
wish I carried no responsibility because of my Armenian identity, I
wish we were a problem-free society, yet biology and fate have
rendered that impossible.
`I wish I carried no responsibility because of my Armenian identity, I
wish we were a problem-free society, yet biology and fate have
rendered that impossible.'
`Christian minorities are specifically targeted in the Middle East'
You have close contact with the region. What is the situation of
Christian minorities, and of Armenians, who are part of that group, in
the war in Syria?
The current situation in the Middle East involves death and
destruction at a level we have not witnessed in a long time. The most
significant outcome of the war in Syria is of course the death of
almost 200,000 Syrians. This number will probably exceed 200 thousand
in the near future. It is a massive tragedy. Sunnis, Shiites,
Armenians: everyone is suffering. We are talking about a devastating
war against diversity. If we can imagine that the ethnic, cultural and
religious diversity that forms the richness of the Middle East is
being destroyed, then we can understand the magnitude of the tragedy
we face. However, Christian minorities are specifically targeted in
the Middle East. Armenians, one of the ancient Christian minorities of
the region, are about to be wiped out completely. On the other hand,
this war made me understand the value of the existence of the Armenian
state in a way I had not considered before. Armenia is one of the most
significant destinations where Armenians fleeing Syria can seek
shelter. They no doubt live in difficult conditions there, too, but we
can say that they have better conditions than the refugee camps in
Jordan or Turkey.
http://www.agos.com.tr/en/article/10404/the-governments-inner-conflict-is-a-good-sign